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Sunday, August 24, 2014

Rav Avraham Yitzchok Hakohein Kook, What Did the Gedolim Really Think of him?

To my loyal blog followers,
I am sure that some of you have been reading hateful comments on this blog about the late Tzaddik Harav AY Kook Z"L, by the Yeshivishe Ama Ratzim, who have been brainwashed in their Yeshivos.



In the last 50 years, the Roshei Yeshivos have been re-writing the biography of the great Gaon and Tzaddik Harav Avraham Yitchok Kook, Z'L to make him into a Rasha, and some have even added the words used for the Nazis, Yemach Shmo!

So I will briefly try to set the record straight, I know that this post is not doing the Rav any justice, but maybe it will slowly sink into the brains of the Yeshivishe and Chassiddishe fanatics that there was and is another side that is equally supported by Gedoilei Hador.

Just a note: Harav Kook was the Mesader Kiddushin for Harav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach and Harav Elyashiv:

**********UPDATE AUG 25
Since I posted all this I have received hundreds of emails(dusiznies@aol.com), some from my own dear friends who know me very well,saying in effect that Reb Isser Zalman Meltzer, R' Mordechai Epstein and Chofetz Chayim, really didn't mean what they wrote below.

To that I say, 
that you are treading on dangerous waters, because if they are in fact lying and and not writing what they actually meant, 

then you can never believe anything these Gedoilim wrote, 
which includes the Sefer Chofetz Chayim, the Mishna Berura etc etc, because we can never be sure that they really wrote what they actually believed!


Rav Isser Zalman Meltzer and Rav Moshe Mordechai Epstein writing in support and defense of Rav Kook
In 1933, religious extremists attacked the Rav for being too amicable towards the Zionists. Among those who defended the Rav's honor were two of Israel's foremost Gedolie Hador .... R' Moshe Mordechai Epstein, head of the Chevron Yeshiva, and R' Isser Zaman Meltzer.. see above letter 

Badatz Eidah Chareidis writing In support and defense of Rav Kook
Kol Korah in Support of Harav Kook, signed by all Roshei Yeshivos of Yerushalyim
Letter from Chafetz Chayim's, son-in-law, stating that the Chofetz Chayim is very upset with those messing with Harav Kook. See in above letter that those embarrassing Rav Kook have no part in Olam Habah.



Harav Kook Z"L, the first Chief Rabbi of Eretz Yisroel, ranks among Jewry's greatest Talmeide Chachomim and thinkers in recent generations. He was a multi-faceted personality, who had a complete grasp on all of the various disciplines within Jewish learning. 

On the one hand, he was at home in the domain of chassidic thought, Kabbalah and Aggadah. On the other hand, he was a formidable scholar in the realm of analytic Talmud study, Halacha and Jewish philosophy. With his wide-ranging perception, Rav Kook embraced seemingly contradictory viewpoints and principles , reconciling and blending them all into one comprehensive, harmonious whole. 

The all-inclusive concept that guided every aspect of Rav Kook's life was clearly his firm recognition that the Jewish people were at the threshold of fateful historical events which would unfold in stages.

In the first stage, the material side - a preoccupation with physical needs - would prevail. The Jewish people would seek physical tranquility and abandon lofty, spiritual needs.

Afterwards, in the second stage, a storm would come and generate a revolution, igniting the inner spark hidden within every Jew.
Then, Israel's true strength - which is based on pure faith, spiritual elevation, and sanctification of the mundane, would be revealed.

After all, Chazal taught in reference to the re-building of the Bais Hamikdash in Me'ilah 14a, 
"The [repairman] build with mundane [materials], and they sanctify it afterwards"
The same is true regarding the building of our Holy Land, asserted the Rav. 
It is now being accomplished in a secular manner, but it will be sanctified in the end.


Rav Kook was born in Grīva in the Courland Governorate of the Russian Empire in 1865

As a child he gained a reputation of being an ilui . He entered the Volozhin Yeshiva in 1884 at the age of 18, where he became close to the Rosh yeshiva, Rabbi Naftali Zvi Yehuda Berlin the Netziv. Although he stayed at the yeshiva for only a year and a half, the Netziv has been quoted as saying that if the Volozhin yeshiva had been founded just to educate Rav Kook, it would have been worthwhile.

During his time in the yeshiva, he studied by Rabbi Eliyahu David Rabinowitz-Teomim, (also known as the Aderet), the rabbi of Ponevezh, who subsequently became his father-in-Law.

In 1887, at the age of 23, Kook entered his first rabbinical position as rabbi of Zaumel, Lithuania. 

 In 1904, Rav Kook moved to Ottoman Palestine to assume the rabbinical post in Jaffa, which also included responsibility for the new mostly secular Zionist agricultural settlements nearby. During these years he wrote a number of works, most published posthumously. He subsequently became Chief Rabbi of Jerusalem.
 Rav Kook was critical of the secularists on certain occasions when they violated Halacha (Jewish law), 
For example, by not observing the Sabbath or kosher laws, or ascending Har HaBayit (the temple mount). 
Rav Kook wrote rulings presenting his strong opposition to people ascending the Temple Mount, due to the Jewish Laws of impurity. He felt that Jews should wait until the coming of the Messiah, when it will be encouraged to enter the Temple Mount. 
However, he was very careful to express the fact that the Kotel and the Har Habayis were holy sites which belong to the Jews. 
Rav Kook also opposed the secular spirit of the Hatikvah anthem, and penned another anthem with a more religious theme entitled haEmunah.
 Rav Kook was apolitical. Rav Kook wrote that he was not part of any party – he simply viewed himself as follower of 
G-d and the laws of the Torah. His relationship with many different types of leaders and laymen, was a part of his general worldview – that all Jews must work together in serving G-d and bringing the redemption. 

Also, one could see from the published letters, that the "Chareidi" leadership was firm in its support of Rav Kook, and in fact had an apparent fond relationship with him. 
The vast majority of the "Chareidi" leaders publicized handwritten letters in support of Rav Kook, when a few individuals were publicly disrespectful towards him. Rav Kook embraced the support, but made clear that any insults were accepted by him without anger, for he viewed himself "as a servant of G-d," without interest in his personal honor.
Some examples of greetings in letters written by Jewish leaders to Rav Kook:
Rav Chaim Ozer Grodzinski : "Our friend, the gaon, our master and teacher, Rabbi Avraham Yitzchak Kook, shlita" and "The Glory of Honor, My Dear Friend, Ha-Rav Ha-Gaon, Ha-Gadol, the Famous One... The Prince of Torah, Our Teacher, Ha-Rav Avraham Yitzchak Ha-Cohain Kook Shlit”a..."
Rav Boruch Ber Leibowitz: "The true gaon, the beauty and glory of the generation, the tzaddik, his holiness, Rabbi Avraham Yitzchak, may his light shine, may he live for length of good days and years amen, the righteous cohen, head of the beis din [court] in Jerusalem, the holy city, may it soon be built and established"
Rav Yosef Yitzchok Schneersohn of Lubavitch: "The Gaon who is renowned with splendor among the Geonim of Ya’akov, Amud HaYemini, Patish HaChazak..."
Rav Chatzkel Abramsky: "The honored man, beloved of Hashem and his nation, the rabbi, the gaon, great and well-known, with breadth of knowledge, the glory of the generation, etc., etc., our master Rabbi Avraham Yitzchak Hacohen Kook, shlita, Chief Rabbi of the Land of Israel and the head of the Beis Din in the holy city of Jerusalem"
Rav Yitzchok Hutner: "The glorious honor of our master, our teacher and rabbi, the great gaon, the crown and sanctity of Israel, Maran [our master] Rabbi Avraham Yitzchak Hacohen Kook, shlita!"

Rav Isser Zalman Meltzer and Rav Moshe Mordechai Epstein: "Our honored friend, the great gaon and glory of the generation, our master and teacher, Avraham Yitzchak Hacohen, shlita"

1. The Praises of the Netziv

The Netziv – Rosh Yeshiva of the Volozhin Yeshiva - said about Maran Ha-Rav Kook: "He is equal to everyone else [in the Volozhin Yeshiva]", "There was never a student like this in Volozhin" and "If the Volozhin Yeshiva was established only for this great student – it would have been enough." 


Ha-Rav Reuven Bengis – Av Beit Din of the Edah Charedit – similarly said that the most important [student] in the Yeshiva is the son-in-law of the Rav of Ponevezh (Ha-Rav Eliyahu David Rabinowitz-Te'omim, Ha-Aderet – Maran Ha-Rav Kook's father-in-law).
[Tal Ha-Re'eiyah pp. 59-60, Shivchei Ha-Re'eiyah p. 45 and Be-Derech Ha-Torah Ha-Goelet p. 189]


2. The Chafetz Chaim: Know that he is holy and pure and anyone who impinges on his honor will not go unpunished.

The Chafetz Chaim once came to Ponovezh in his effort to organize Torah scholars who were Cohanim to learn matters relating to "Kodashim" (the sacrifices in the Temple), since the Temple would soon be built and therefore there would be a need to know the practical Halachah. He turned to Maran Ha-Rav, who was a Cohain (and who was stayed in his father-in-law's house), and asked him to focus on the laws relating to the Temple and sacrifices. A few days later, Maran Ha-Rav visited the Chafetz Chaim in the place where he was staying. The Chafetz Chaim said to him: "I have a request of you, but promise me from the outset that you will fulfill it." Maran Ha-Rav responded: "Since I trust that his honor will not request anything which is inappropriate from me, I promise to fulfill your request." "This is my request" – said the Chafetz Chaim – "When a Rabbinic offer comes before you do not refuse to accept it." Maran Ha-Rav, who had decided not to involve himself with the Rabbinate, found himself in a difficult position, and wanted to free himself and said: "In order to accept a Rabbinic position I would have to involve myself with the halachic authorities who discuss the issues involved, and I already promised his honor to involve myself with 'Kodashim.'" Chafetz Chaim thought hard and said: "I give up on your first promise, your Rabbinate is more important"…


[Bisdeh Ha-Re'eiyah p. 218, Sichot Ha-Re'eiyah p. 122, Tal Ha-Re'eiyah p. 90, Moadei Ha-Re'eiyah p. 231 and 550, Bein Shenei Cohanim Gedolim pp. 32-33 and mentioned in Bishelosha Be-Elul vol. 1 p. 35]


After Maran Ha-Rav Kook had served a while in the Rabbinate in one of the holy communities in the Exile, he received an invitation from the Chafetz Chaim to help him prepare a work on the service of the Cohanim when the Temple is standing. Maran Ha-Rav replied: If his honor permits me to remove the yoke of the Rabbinate which is upon me, I can fulfill the request which is extremely dear to me. The Chafetz Chaim answered: I have not found an individual as talented as you in administering a Rabbinate in Israel!...
[Ha-Re'eiyah Kook ztzvk"l of Ha-Rav Shmuel Baruch Shulman p. 36]

At a huge Rabbinical Conference in Vienna in 5683, one of the Rabbis made disparaging remarks about Maran Ha-Rav, the Chafetz Chaim (who was sitting at the dais) stood up shocked and said: "You insulted the Mara De-Atra (Rabbinic authority) of Eretz Yisrael." He left the conference and decided not to return to it. The Chafetz Chaim waited in his hotel to return to his city, and many people came to visit him or receive a blessing. When the members of delegation from Eretz Yisrael wanted to enter, he said: "I will not say 'Shalom' to those who caused dispute with the Rav of Yerushalayim (Maran Ha-Rav)!" And he added: "Know that he is holy and pure and anyone who impinges on his honor will not go unpunished."


[Bisdeh Ha-Re'eiyah p. 225-228, Sichot Ha-Re'eiyah p. 26-127, Malachim Bivnei Adam p. 211 and for additional information on the subject see Sichot Ha-Re'eiyah chap. 11 and Bein Shenei Cohanim Gedolim chap. 4]

In the year 5681, our Rabbi, Ha-Rav Tzvi Yehudah Ha-Cohain Kook (Maran Ha-Rav's son) traveled to Poland to meet with Rabbis and Chasidic Rebbes to convince them to join the "Degel Yerushalayim" movement which Maran Ha-Rav established to infuse the Zionist movement with Torah and holiness. At that time, the Chafetz Chaim came to Warsaw, and our Rabbi, who yearned to see the splendor of the most righteous person of the generation, went to where he was staying. He found him surrounded by people. After over an hour, our Rabbi approached to take leave from him. The Chafetz Chaim asked: "Are you a local?" Our Rabbi responded: "No, from Jerusalem," and he added: "Your honor was close with Reb Eliyahu David (the Aderet), father-in-law of my father." When the Chafetz Chaim heard whose son was standing before him, his face lit up and he joyfully said: "Your honor is the son of the Rav of Zimel, the Rav of Boisk, the Rav of Yafo, the Rav of Jerusalem? Then why does he speak about his grandfather? Tell me about your father! How is he? We are long-time, dear friends."


[Bisdei Ha-Re'eiyah p. 221, Sichot Ha-Re'eiyah p. 126, Shivchei Ha-Re'eiyah pp. 157-158, Be-Derech Ha-Torah Ha-Goelet p. 97, Tzvi Kodesh p. 146 and Bein Shenei Cohanim Gedolim pp. 36-37]

See Bisdei Ha-Re'eiyah pp. 217-231, Sichot Ha-Re'eiyah pp. 120-133 and the book "Bein Shenei Cohanim Gedolim" which discuss the special relationship between the Chafetz Chaim and Maran Ha-Rav Kook.


3. Ha-Rav Yosef Chaim Sonenfeld:
A Blessing to be the Cohain Gadol

On Shavuot morning after davening Vatikin, Maran Ha-Rav Kook was walking in one of the alleyways near the Kotel and met Ha-Rav Yosef Chaim Sonenfeld. Ha-Rav Sonenfeld blessed him that he should merit serving as the Cohain Gadol in the Temple.
[Moadei Ha-Re'eiyah pp. 303-304 and see another blessing of Ha-Rav Sonenfeld to Maran Ha-Rav ibid.]

It once happened that Ha-Sonenfeld was honored to be a Mohel at a Brit Milah and Maran Ha-Rav was honored to act as the Sandak. The two Rabbis met at the door of the apartment where the Brit Milah would occur. After they exchanged friendly greetings, a problem arose: Who would enter the house first? Maran Ha-Rav respectfully suggested that Ha-Rav Sonenfeld enter first. But he responded: "His honor is a Cohain and the Chief Rabbi [of Jerusalem] – and the basic halachah is that he should enter first." Maran Ha-Rav humbly answered: "But his honor is greater in Torah than I am." They stood at the door without a decision as to who should enter first. The older houses in Jerusalem were built in such a way that there were two doors in each doorway – the left one was bolted closed and the right one opened and closed, allowing one person to pass through it. Maran Ha-Rav approached the opened door, struck his arm through it and unbolted the left door – and both of them entered at once!
[Melachim Kivnei Adam p. 64]


4. Ha-Rav Chaim Ozer Grodzinski
: A Eulogy for Maran Ha-Rav at a Wedding

When the Chazon Ish left Vilna to make aliyah, Rav Chaim Ozer sent a letter to Maran Ha-Rav requesting his assistance. He began the letter: "The Glory of Honor, My Dear Friend, Ha-Rav Ha-Gaon, Ha-Gadol, the Famous One… The Prince of Torah, Our Teacher, Ha-Rav Avraham Yitzchak Ha-Cohain Kook Shlit"a…"
[Bisdeh Ha-Re'eiyah p. 236, Chayei Ha-Re'eiyah pp. 388-389, Igrot Le-Re'eiyah #316 and Melachim Kivnei Adam pp. 106-107. Maran Ha-Rav's response is found in Shut Da'at Cohain #223]

There was a wedding in Elul 5696 in which Rav Chaim Ozer, Ha-Rav Shimon Shkop and many other great Rabbis attended. When news arrived that Maran Ha-Rav had died, Rav Chaim Ozer instructed Ha-Rav Shmuel Markowitz, Av Beit Din of Turatz to eulogize him. And this is what was done.
[This is quoted by Ha-Rav Tzvi Markowitz in Kovetz "Achiezer" #2 from the year 5628 and Davar Le-Dor – Kovetz Hespedim Al Rav Kook ztz"l p. 89]

See Igrot Le-Re'eiyah where there are tens of letters by Rav Chaim Ozer to Maran Ha-Rav with great respect and honor, and where it is possible to see the close relationship which existed between them.


5. Ha-Rav Isser Zalman Meltzer:
We are Gedolim until we reach his doorknob

Ha-Rav Isser Zalman Meltzer, Rosh Yeshiva of Eitz Chaim in Jerusalem, said: "I was young when I arrived in Volozhin, and I looked with great respect at the greater students who sat on the eastern wall, and among them were prodigies who would become Gedolei Yisrael. But I remember well that looking at him [Maran Ha-Rav Kook] was completely different - even among the special he was distinguished by his uniqueness!"
[Tal Ha-Re'eiyah p. 71, Shivchei Ha-Re'eiyah p. 101 and the booklet "Az Nebabru Yirei Hashem" p. 13]

Ha-Rav Meltzer once visited Ha-Rav Chaim Ozer Grodzinski, and Ha-Rav Meltzer said about Maran Ha-Rav: "We are Gedolim until we reach his doorknob."
[Mi-Toch Ha-Torah Ha-Goelet vol. 2 p. 170, Le-Shelosha Be-Elul vol. 2 p. 101, Shivchei Ha-Re'eiah p. 202, Bisadeh Ha-Re'eiyah vol. 274, Malachim Kivnei Adam p. 430 and the booklet "Az Nebabru Yirei Hashem" p. 22]

Ha-Rav Meltzer said many times: "If only I could daven during Ne'eilah on Yom Kippur, with awe of holiness and feeling, like Ha-Rav [Kook] davens during weekday Minchah."
[Sichot Ha-Rav Tzvi Yehudah #51, Le-Shelosha Be-Elul vol. 2 p. 102, Orot Ha-Tefillah of Ha-Rav Y. Epstein (student of Ha-Rav Meltzer) p. 26, Shivchei Ha-Re'eiyah p. 200, Malachim Kivnei Adam p. 256 and the booklet "Az Nebabru Yirei Hashem" p. 29]

In the eulogy which Ha-Rav Meltzer delivered for Maran Ha-Rav in the Churva Synagogue in the Old City of Jerusalem, he said: "The True Torah was in his mouth" and "With the passing of Ha-Rav – the spine of Klal Yisrael is broken."
[Moadei Ha-Re'eiyah vol. 12, Le-Shelosha Be-Elul vol 2 p. 101, Shivchei Ha-Re'eiyah p. 15, Bisadeh Ha-Re'eiyah vol. 275 and Malachim Kivnei Adam p. 430]


See the booklet "Az Nebabru Yirei Hashem" from Amichai Kinerati for the close relationship between Ha-Rav Meltzer and Maran Ha-Rav.


6. The Chazon Ish Stands During the Entire Lengthy Speech of Maran Ha-Rav Kook

As related by the founder of the city of Bnei Brak, Rabbi Yitzchak Gershtenkorn: In the year 5694, Ha-Rav Kook was invited to the foundation stone laying ceremony for Yeshivat Beit Yosef (Novardok) in Bnei Brak, and he agreed to attend. During the celebration, in which the Chazon Ish also participated, Ha-Rav [Kook] gave a lengthy speech, with great passion regarding the Torah and Chasidut in Bnei Brak. During the entire time that Ha-Rav Kook spoke, those who attended sat comfortably in their places, while the Chazon Ish remained on his feet and listened intently to Ha-Rav Kook. Only when Ha-Rav Kook finished and sat down did the Chazon Ish sit in his seat. The matter was a wonder in the eyes of those present. Ha-Rav Tzvi Kagan, who was also there, added that when the speech of Ha-Rav Kook became lengthy, they suggested to the Chazon Ish to sit down, but he refused, saying: "The Torah is standing!"
[Pe'er Ha-Dor vol. 2 p. 32, Malachim Kivnei Adam pp. 340-341, Bisadeh Ha-Re'eiyah p. 247, Moadei Ha-Re'eiyah pp. 217-218 and Likutei Ha-Re'eiyah pp. 417-419]

Immediately upon arrival in Eretz Yisrael, the Chazon Ish turned to Maran Ha-Rav with a postcard asking him to clarify the correct procedure for redeeming "Ma'aser Sheni" (The tithe which would be brought to be eaten in Jerusalem). He began: "The Glory of the Honor of our Master Shlit"a".
[Igrot Le-Re'eiyah #310, bisadeh Ha-Re'eiyah p. 35, Chayei Ha-Re'eiyah pp. 119-120 and Moadei Ha-Re'eiyah pp. 217-218. Maran Ha-Rav's response is printed in Shut Mishpat Cohain #53-54 and see Pe'er Ha-Dor vol. 4 pp. 222-223]

The Chazon Ish encouraged his most gifted students to learn the halachic works of Maran Ha-Rav, and he would say: "Ha-Rav's way of learning and clarification of the Halachah is the truth of Torah."
[Re'eiyah Ve-chazon p. 10 and Bisadeh Ha-Re'eiyah p. 145]

See Bisadeh Ha-Re'eiyah pp. 233-248 where there are letters concerning Halachah and filled with respect and honor between Maran Ha-Rav and the Chazon Ish.


7. Ha-Rav Yitzchak Ze'ev Soloveitchik:
 
The Glory of the Generation

The Brisker Rav wrote to Maran Ha-Rav Kook requesting help for a yeshiva student beginning with these words: "Great blessing for the honor of Ha-Rav Ha-Gaon, Ha-Gadol, the Famous One, the Glory of the Generation… The Prince of Torah, Our Teacher, Ha-Rav R' Avraham Yitzchak Ha-Cohain Shlit"a Kook. The Chief Rabbi in Jerusalem…" And Ha-Griz ended the letter: "I conclude with a blessing for all goodness for the glory of his genius Shlit"a, I respect and cherish the exalted nature of the glory of his genius with all feelings of respect and value."

Ha-Rav Yosha Ber (Ha-Rav Berel Soloveitchik), Ha-Griz's son and Rosh Yeshiva of Yeshivat Brisk following his father, once spoke harshly against Zionism. He was asked: And what about Ha-Rav Kook? He answered: "He is a Gadol." (from Ha-Rav Zalman Baruch Melamed).
[Ha-Rav Eliezer Melamed in the article "Ha-Rav Kook and Beit Brisk" which appeared in the newspaper "Be-Sheva" 5767 and Igrot Le-Re'eiyah #373]


8. Ha-Rav Moshe Feinstein:
He was the Gaon of Geonim!

Ha-Rav Shabatai Rapaport, Ha-Rav Feinstein's grandson, related that in the year 5739, during Sukkot in Monsey, NY, Ha-Rav Feinstein was involved with writing a contrary view to a responsa of Ha-Rav Eliezer Waldenberg (Tzitz Eliezer). Ha-Rav Rapaport showed his grandfather a statement from Maran Ha-Rav Kook (relating to the issue) which Ha-Rav Rapaport found amazing. Ha-Rav Feinstein responded: "What is surprising, he was the Gaon of Geonim!"
[Likutei Ha-Re'eiyah p. 59]

Ha-Rav Nisan Alpert, Rosh Yeshiva at Yeshiva University, Rabbi of Agudat Yisrael, author of "Limudei Nisan" and Ha-Rav Feinstein's student for forty years, was one of those who eulogized his Rav in New York. He also spoke at a memorial evening for Ha-Rav Kook, on the 50th anniversary of his passing. When he was asked about the connection between his Rav and Ha-Rav Kook, he answered that Ha-Rav Feinstein was a "Chasid" of Ha-Rav Kook. Ha-Rav Feinstein said to learn his books and one will find great things. He also added, rhetorically, that he did not understand what people wanted from Ha-Rav Kook ztz"l.
[Likutei Ha-Re'eiyah p. 60]


9. Ha-Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach:
I only use the term 'Der Rov', Maran, for Ha-Rav Kook.

Maran Ha-Rav Kook was the Mesader Kiddushin at the wedding of Ha-Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach. Ha-Rav Auerbach's brother-in-law, R' Shemuel Zelig, recalls how Maran Ha-Rav was honored with officiating at the wedding in the Jerusalem neighborhood of "Sha'arei Chesed." Although there were zealots who did not look upon this kindly, the groom's father – Ha-Rav Chaim Leib Auerbach – did not give in, because of the close relationship and deep respect between them.
[Ha-Torah Ha-Mesamachat p. 41 and Sefer Rabbenu p. 140 from the newspaper "Ha-Tzofeh"]


Ha-Rav S.Z. Auerbach said: If I say to you 'Maran' in Yiddish [Der Rov – Ha-Rav], know that I am referring to Ha-Rav Kook zt"l. I only use the term 'Der Rov', Maran, for Ha-Rav Kook.
[Sefer Rabbenu ibid. and the booklet "Or Shlomo" p. 24 and see note 34 where various testimonies to this fact are quoted]

Ha-Rav Auerbach honored Maran Ha-Rav with being the Sandek at the Brit Milah of his eldest son, R' Shmuel, who today serves as the Rosh Yeshiva of "Maalot Ha-Torah" in Jerusalem.
[The booklet "Or Shlomo" p. 21]

Maran Ha-Rav's picture hung together with pictures of other Gedolei Yisrael in Ha-Rav Auerbach's sukkah.
[The booklet "Or Shlomo" p. 28]

Ha-Rav Chaim Shteiner related that someone once published a book about Ha-Rav Yitzchak Elchanan Spector which also included disgraceful words about Ha-Rav Kook. Ha-Rav Auerbach said that it is forbidden to buy this book until it is corrected, and he also wrote a letter to the author asking him to fix it. He also met the author a few times and would always ask if the book was being fixed.

Ha-Rav Avigdor Neventzal related that Ha-Rav Auerbach would not hear the rulings of a particular Torah scholar because he besmirched Ha-Rav Kook's honor.
[Ha-Torah Ha-Mesamachat p. 308 and the booklet "Or Shlomo" p. 30]

Ha-Rav A. Yehoshua Zuckerman related that when someone mentioned in a talk about the horrible behavior of certain individuals against Maran Ha-Rav Kook, Ha-Rav Auerbach responded with great distress: I recommend that those who were brazen and dishonored Ha-Rav should go to his grave and ask forgiveness.
[Ve-Alehu Lo Vibol vol. 1 p. 83 and the booklet "Or Shlomo" p. 30]

And see further in the booklet "Or Shlomo" by Amichai Kinerati for the close relationship between Ha-Rav Auerbach and Maran Ha-Rav.


10. Ha-Rav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv Shlit"a: 
Ha-Rav Kook was greater than us!

R' Aryeh Levin, who often visited Ha-Rav Shlomo Eliyashuv, the author of "Leshem Shevo Ve-Achlama," met the latter's young grandson there – R' Yosef Shalom. Even then, R' Areyh recognized the unique greatness of R' Yosef Shalom. R' Aryeh once spoke with Maran Ha-Rav Kook about his sorrow that there was a wonderful, righteous, young Torah scholar who would a great match for his (R' Aryeh's) daughter, but the young man did not respond favorably to his suggestion (either because he thought he had better options or he was not ready to marry). Maran Ha-Rav asked for the identity of the young man, and told that is was R' Yosef Shalom Elyashiv. Maran Ha-Rav called for the young man and spoke to him. The younger R. Eliyashuv then accepted the proposal and the couple married. Maran Ha-Rav Kook served as the Mesader Kiddushin. When Maran Ha-Rav's name comes up, Ha-Rav Elyashiv often said that he was honored that Maran Ha-Rav performed his wedding.
[Parashah Sheet "Shevet Ha-Re'eiyah #31]


Ha-Rav Yosef Buxbaum, the director of the journal "Moriah” and student of Ha-Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach related:
It once happened that one of the editors of the "Otzar Mefarshei Ha-Talmud" (Treasury of Talmudic Commentators) included a ruling of Maran Ha-Rav Kook, but another editor removed it. I asked him why he removed the ruling: was it because he raised a difficultly with it and it required further study? He answered: "I didn't even look into the issue. I just think that a ruling of Ha-Rav Kook is not appropriate for 'Otzar Mefarsehi Ha-Talmud.'" I said to him: "From this moment, you are fired!" The editor did not accept his decision, and they went to Ha-Gaon Ha-Rav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv. Ha-Rav Elyashiv was shocked and said to the editor: "Did you know Ha-Rav Kook?! You should know – he was holy. He did not belong to our generation, and in his generation, they did not properly understand him. Reb Yosef was certainly permitted to fire you. I would have done the same thing."
[Weekly parashah sheet "Shevet Ha-Re'eiyah #31 and #50]


It is related that Rabbanit Elyashiv once heard words which impinged upon Maran Ha-Rav's honor, and it caused her so much pain that she physically suffered from it for many days.
[Tzadik Yesod Olam p. 232 and Parashah Sheet "Shevet Ha-Re'eiyah #50]



Ha-Rav Elyashiv once wrote a halachic ruling, and after he finished someone showed him a different opinion which Maran Ha-Rav had written on the subject. Ha-Rav Elyashiv immediately ripped up his ruling and changed his opinion to that of Maran Ha-Rav.
[Parashah Sheet "Shevet Ha-Re'eiyah #50]


Ha-Rav Elyashiv once mentioned a particular teaching of Maran Ha-Rav. Someone who was present said that Rabbi so-and-so, one of the greatest Rabbis of the generation, sayid otherwise. Ha-Rav Elyashiv simply responded: Ha-Rav Kook was greater than us!
[Parashah Sheet "Shevet Ha-Re'eiyah #50]





53 comments:

Cleanhashkafa said...

If you want to depict the accurate version of history, then read up about R' Kook from his early days in Volozhin. Noone is disputing that he was a brilliant person, but he was definitely extremely eccentric. If you met a person like him today, you would dismiss him as being off the wall.

Dusiznies said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dusiznies said...

To 12:18
You obviously didn't read the post at all!
In what specifically was he "extremely eccentric?"
That he davened on time Shachris, not like the Satmar Rebbe that davened every morning at 11?
Or maybe, that Motzei Shabbos by him was Motzei Shabbos, and not Tuesday night like the Amshenover?
Or that he didn't go to the mikvah 30 times a day like the Ribnitzer?
Or maybe that his Hoshanois didn't take 5 hours, with 40 bathroom breaks?
Or maybe that he didnt send people letters to remain in Poland during WW2 like R' Aron Kotlar that advised R' Gedalye Schor to remain in Europe?
Or maybe he wasn't like the litvishe Roshei yeshivas that never davened Mincha and Maariv?
Tell us, how was he eccentric?

Ich gloib nisht said...

"Roshei Yeshivos have been re-writing the Biography of the great Gaon and Tzaddik Harav Avraham Yitchok Kook, Z'L to make him into a Rasha, and some have even added the words used for the Nazis, Yemach Shmo!"

There is no Litivishe, Yekkishe or Poilishe rosh yeshiva crazy enough to call him yms or even rasha.

Only the Hungarians are capable of such lunacy.

So which roshei yeshiva do you mean?

srulyc said...

Definitely extremely eccentric? Says who?

Dusiznies said...

To Clean
You liar:
Here see his early days in Voloshin
(1) The Netziv – Rosh Yeshiva of the Volozhin Yeshiva - said about Maran Ha-Rav Kook: "He is equal to everyone else [in the Volozhin Yeshiva]", "There was never a student like this in Volozhin" and "If the Volozhin Yeshiva was established only for this great student – it would have been enough."
(2)Ha-Rav Isser Zalman Meltzer, Rosh Yeshiva of Eitz Chaim in Jerusalem, said: "I was young when I arrived in Volozhin, and I looked with great respect at the greater students who sat on the eastern wall, and among them were prodigies who would become Gedolei Yisrael. But I remember well that looking at him [Maran Ha-Rav Kook] was completely different - even among the special he was distinguished by his uniqueness!"

Anonymous said...

I agree with much of what you wrote but you can't just take parts of what gedolim said on Rav Kook. Firstly, what about the other things the chazon ish said about rav kook? what about what rav Elchonon Wasserman said about him?

Anonymous said...

Many of these gedolim who say Rav Kook was a tzaddik will add that he was a tzaddik toeh. At least in conversation they added that extra word.

Dusiznies said...

To 8:34
So are you saying that the Chazon Ish z"l said two different things about Rav Kook? So which one did he really mean?
We know that the Chazon Ish said that he knew that the RBS"O would never allow the Chofetz Chayim to make Aliyah, since Rav Kook and the CC were so close that people would then burn the Mishna Berura, so Hashem made sure that the CC never make it to Israel!
So we see the closeness of these Gedoilim...

Dusiznies said...

To 8:39
Show us where anyone that I posted said that? You lying bastard!

Dusiznies said...

To 8:39
You are basically calling Reb Issar Zalman Meltzer, the Chofetz Chayim, the Chazon Ish, Rav Epstein and all those who signed the Kol Korahs,
a bunch of liars!

Re Tzaddik Toeh said...

Don't get the wrong idea & don't get so personal.

Tzaddik Toeh is a high madraiga. Only the Catholic Church and a few baal habatish Agudah fools believe in a kind of papal infallibitily. Rav Kook only had the best intentions but underestimated the chilonim how bad they could be.

I have always heard the tzaddik toeh thing from rebbeyim but one rebbe in particular who is a rosh yeshiva today always got direct from the sources. I don't know exactly which of these gedolim but his personal shimush & relationships included the following gedolim: R' Moshe Feinstein, R' Yaakov Kaminetzky, Rav Henkin, R' Aron Kotler, R' Mendel Kaplan

Dusiznies said...

to 9:36
So are you saying that Chofetz Chayim, Reb Issar Zalman Meltzer and the Chazon Ish wrote one thing but really meant something different?
Then how do I know that anything the above mentioned Gedoilim wrote, they really meant!

Dusiznies said...

To 9:36
Reb Moshe called Rav Kook "Gaon of Gaonim"
do u think Rav Moshe would have said that if he felt that Rav Kook was a "tzaddik toeh"?
BTW Rav Henkin called the Satmar Rav a Rodef!
""Now all the rabbis who were opposed to Zionism and the establishment of a state took up that position until the time that it was officially founded. Once the state was declared, anyone who plays into the hands of the nations of the world even where there is no imminent danger, is clearly a moseir and rodeif. ...to proclaim that anyone who aids the state is a rodeif, well such talk is the severest form of redifa."

Re Tzaddik Toeh said...

I do not believe it is a steera that R' Moshe gave such a high compliment. Human beings, even the greatest ones, are entitled to make one mistake in their life.

And if Rav Henkin was upset at Satmar Rov it would preclude him from believing one nuance of Rav Kook needed fine tuning.

The way of Torah is for a gadol to not go agree with someone's shita if they find a mistake or superior logic.

Re Tzaddik Toeh said...

it would NOT preclude him

Anonymous said...

Its yeduah that KOOK was an illui in his youth, and most of the divrei shevach from the gedolim about him was from those days, later unfortunately he was nechmatz venifgam, and many gedolim either didnt know about what happened, (remember this is before IM,) or like some werent sure, so they kept the statosquo, ubifrat chazal teach ys, talmid chacham shechata tomneihu vekulho, however those that were 'hakrovim el hachalal', saw that this situation was getting out of hand, with KOOK saying things that were kefirah or close to it, they then had no choice, and came out in force against him & his deos kozvos.

Anonymous said...

If indeed rav henkin called the satmar rav what you attribute to him, it was either on the spur of the moment, and definitely when he realized what he said repented, however if this was really his opinion, then of course batlo daato mipnei daas gadol vekadosh hador..

Anonymous said...

Any comment that uncloaks your lies, & refutes your theories is soon deleted, (however not before many have read it, & understand that you cant bear being proven wrong), 'if you cant take the heat get out of the kitchen, you biased chiloni tzioni.

Anonymous said...

Most if not all your sources, are from KOOKS BOOKS, some mekor musmach!, your theories dont hold water, a year or so from when he made ALIYAH, the gedolei eretz yisroel began to realize that this was not the KOOK they heard about, seeing that he was a rodeph achar hakavod, wanting to become rav yerushalayim MITAAM, flashed a red light, leading them to realize that he was nebech nechmatz venufgam, totally ignoring derech hatorah becoming meshuga ledavar achad (achar), being matir chayvei kureis all in the name of chivas haaretz, and the rest is history, at the end of his life, he was left with very few erliche yidden in his machne, only the zionim chilonim, later the zionists tried to rewrite history, aiming to resurrect his stature, and succeded.partially. However by the authentic original ehrluche yidden, he us still posul upgefregt machti es horabim.

Anonymous said...

Not true at all, the only ones who tried to rewrite KOOK history are the zionists, when kook died he was already considered a Shana upeirush by the charedi tzibbur, the Rosh yeshivos only made sure that the yeshivish crowd should not be fooled by the PR of the chilonim, bh they succeeded, he is going down in Jewish history & will always be remembered as a classic example, of Al taamein beatzmecha ad yom moscha, & also what a skana it is huschabrus lershaiym.

Anonymous said...

Do you need more proof than this fact? Look at KOOKs picture(on second thought asur lehistakel, maybe only histaklus beiyan is asur, or maybe ltoeles muttar), he is wearing the shemona begadim (or rather kaful shemona..), now look at his nechshalim acherov, what is their uniform? do you get it?, the ehrliche yuden, all of them, those that wear the type of clothes that KOOK wore, are (were) with him no more, poshut his prior chassidim left him when he started publicizing his deos kozvos, plus the gedolim came out against him in full force, leaving him only one option, in order to not have a total bankrupcy, to get even closer to the zionist mumrim lehachis, & thats what happened, & only the biktze hamachne hard core zionists stayed with him, & he served them wellvto their taste, finding a limud zechus Al kol devar Pesha Chet veavon, vehu rachum yechaper Avon.

Dusiznies said...

To 1:07
you write:
"Most if not all your sources, are from KOOKS BOOKS"
And where do you get your ideas from?? hmmm! From Satmar books?
Well! I will tell you something about Satmar that I didn't learn from books, but something that I witnessed with my very own eyes,
the torturing and the violence done against the Satmarer Rebbes own blood, his nephew the Kloizenberger Rebbe, he had to run out of Williamsburg and run to Union City. Also I can never forget when they cut the payes and beards of the Lubavitcher chassidim. Who can forget the grafitte on the Brooklyn Queens expressway "Yemach Shemo Berylele" on the Belzer Rebbe...
Reb Yoilish was very much alive and didn't do a damn thing...
This is your Tzaddik? The Tzaddik that said on many occasions that the Americans never went to the moon?
The Tzaddik that told his chassidim to stay in Roumania, when he and his family fled?
The Tzaddik that never thanked Kaztner, the Zionist that saved his life? No Hakoras Hatoiv?
Is that a Rebbe that condoned violance against his own blood?
I'll take rav Kook who loved every single Jew!

Dusiznies said...

To 11;33
You write the gedoilim didn't know the Shita of Rav Kook?
So the Gedolim that signed the letters in my post, that explicitly says that no-one should say a bad word about Rav Kook, and the signed letter from the Chofetz Chayim that says that whoever is Mevazeh Rav Kook will not have a chelik in Olab Haba, was written but they didnt believe what they wrote...
in that case throw out the Mishna Berura ... because how do I know if the Chofetz chayim didn't lie in his seforim?

Salted Pretzel said...

How do you know the Satmar Rov didn't try to stop the gangsters from attacking? We know that he tried very hard to stop them from attacking R' Moshe Feinstein. He still could not control the occassional loose cannon who called R' Moshe in the middle of the night to scream nivul peh.

If you were in the Satmar Rov's shoes, how would you control a bunch of hillbillies who don't have an ounce of derech eretz?

Kasztner deserves loads of criticism that kapo what he was. Yes he save a trainload of rabbonim along with himself while he convinced the masses to get on the trains to Auschwicz

Salted Pretzel said...

"Americans never went to the moon"

There is a basis to this which has been distorted. It is usually attributed by mistake however to R' Yaakov Kaminetzky, not the Satmar Rov.

Based on the nusach of Kiddush Levonah that seems literally like that we cannot reach the moon, Shlomo Goren asked the kashya that maybe we thought Apollo landed there but was an illusion because it landed elsewhere? R' Yaakov has a terutz that it is not literal, they did in fact land on the moon.

Dusiznies said...

To salted
You ask how I know that the Rebbe "didn't try to stop it?"
I know, because if he had really wanted it to stop, it would have stopped!
If he really couldn't then he should have resigned as the leader of Satmar..
Somebody, in the stature of the Rebbe, who all agree was an erlicher yid, if he would have screamed and shouted and cried against the violence like he did against the Zionists then it would have stopped, but secretly he enjoyed and tolerated violence against his opposition.... and this didn't start in the USA, it started in Europe when his brother became Sigiter Rav, when their Father suddenly died.
Ask some old Satmarer guys and they'll tell you stories that will make your hair fall out..
Violence constantly surrounded him!

Anonymous said...

I would trust rav elchonon Wasserman over you in terms of what the chofetz Chaim held. And Rav Elchonon say that Rav kook is a rasha. And that he is Machtei es harabim. Those are quotes.

Anonymous said...

So I will briefly try to set the record straight, I know that this post is not doing the Rav any justice, but maybe it will slowly sink into the brain of DUSIZNIES--this is not about rav kook. But rather about the satmar Rebbe. You trust all the good things these gedolim said about rav kook but ignore the amazing things they said about the satmar rebbe (and dont try to quote that false quote from rav henkin again). A complete douple standerd. The reason is because you grew up in satmar you have to bash the satmar rebbe (R' yoel not the current "rebbes") at every oportunity.

Dusiznies said...

To 2:33
Show me where Reb Elchonon Wasserman called Rav Kook a "Rasha" because I cannot believe that Rav Elchonon would call another Jew no less a Rav that Rav Isser Zalman Meltzer, Reb Mordechai Kaplan, the Chazon Ish, the Chofetz Chayim, Reb Moshe Feinstein, Reb Chaim Ozer, considered a Tzaddik...
I suspect that you are a G-D damned liar!

Dusiznies said...

To 2:40
You wrote:
"You trust all the good things these gedolim said about rav kook but ignore the amazing things they said about the satmar rebbe"
I never said I trusted them, I just displayed you the letters that exist, that they themselves wrote..
BTW these Gedolim, except for Reb Moshe (that loved every single Jew) never said anything good about the Satmar Rebbe, because they never met him.

Anonymous said...

If there is one clear thread (actually there are quite a few) running thru most (if not all) derby on a bacon roll's comments, its his hatred to all that is holy, thereby especially hatred to unadulterated authentic original yiddushkeit, ie satmar litvish etc, osam Asher lo karu labaal velashera hatzioni, its obvious & it's obnoxious, pure poison pure moral degradation pure sinas chinam pure sinas aam haaretz letalmid chacham

Anonymous said...

Kook loved every Jew btnai he was a tzioni, and his follower, at the end stage of his life he ONLY loved chilonim, poshut the ehrliche yidden dumped him, realizing that he was nechmatz & meshuga loso davar, nothing mattered to him, only zionism chibas haaretz, all mutzvos aseh or lo saaseh, were dispensable didnt matter didnt count were irrelevant, the only mitzvah in his Torah was zionism, because that's what mattered to his bosses.

Dusiznies said...

tO 5:44
IM LEAVING ALL YOUR POSTS FOR EVERYONE TO SEE, HOW SICK AND PERVERTED THE YESHIVISHE WORLD HAS BECOME!
AND ITS TIME FOR THE BALAI BATIM TO CUT ALL DONATIONS TO ALL YESHIVAS THAT SUBSCRIBE TO THIS KEFIRAH AND SICKNESS!

Anonymous said...

And of course, now that Derby on a bacon roll has spoken, that's what will automatically happen, his 'loyal followers' and they count in the ........ Can you guess how many , according to the negative numbers of comments he gets my guess is probably under a minyan,any way HE has spoken how dare anyone challenge HIM. Go get a life, your dream of having a financially successful blog just evaporated, go try driving a rickshaw for a living.

Anonymous said...

For once ill thank you on the occasion of letting uncomfortable (for you) comments stand, however my experience tells me it wont last long & you'll go back to deleting. Chayei shou gam Ken cahyim.

Anonymous said...

Dont you worry your kleine krumkop, nobody thought for one moment that YOU trust anyone besides your own twisted deranged maskilish mind, let me quote you Its not (the blog) about me, ubet its all about you, your biased zionist chiloni mind body & soul, cant hide it, it permeates resonates aggravates & creates an air of Mara shechora kina shemotzi es haadam min haolam sinas chinam.

Anonymous said...

Those that got to know him closeup, especially in eretz yisroel, considered him a unbalanced person obsessed with just one thing on his agenda, chibas haaretz, not taking in consideration the bitter consequences it cost, nobody had a hashpaa on him, he was a mumar ledavar achad, & unfortunately millions of Jews were somech over the last years on his follies, some say that at very end of his life he finally saw what he did, but was unable to relent, vehu rachum yechaper Avon, he probably was misvadeh before his death, keep in mind that bederch klal even his misnagdim are of the opinion that at the begining he meant well, it got out of hand because of his obsession, & as they say the rest is (bitter) history.

Dusiznies said...

to 6:58
In other words,
Reb Isser Zalman Melyzer, The Chofetz Chayim, Reb Mendel Epstein, Reb Chaim Ozer, Reb Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, Reb Eliyashuv, Reb Moishe Feinstein, The Chazon Ish,
were all a bunch of liars!

Anonymous said...

Hi guys... Part I

I'm posting about comments here and on the previous " 3 shvuos " heading together here as one.. Just returned from a mini and see that the Litvak dovor achar fissel can't sleep nights because of me and blah, blah, blah, Derby this, Derby that,,, blah, blah.


ECCENTRICS:
Many people and especially great ones are eccentric and to place an ad-hominum attack on eccentricity only, is stupid and unintelligent.
Arguably, these rabbonim would probably fall into that category.

a) R' Scnheerson, latest Lubav rebbe
b) Chazon Ish
c)R' Shlomo Carlebach
d) Shimshon Hagibbur
e)Rav Eliyashev
f) Rimnitzer rebbe
g) R' Avigdor Miller
h) The Baal Shem Tov
I) The holy great tzaddik, R' Mordechele Nadvorner


- R' Avigdor Miller: Read his sforim to see Yad Hashem in potatoes, eyelids and corn-on-the cob. Know that he was the first to translate Satmar hatred of Israel into English and have it published in the NY TImes, a gross chillul Hashe.
Chazon Ish: Despite his greatness, the heimishe olam does NOT pasken at all like him, only his litvishe fans do.
Hertz Frankel : I saw his name on the 3 shvuos site, I didn't comment on him, the Litvak fissel thinks I did. But Now I will:
If there's bigger baal gavve shtunkatch anywhere like him on this planet , I'd like to know who. He too, when nobody in Satmar spoke or understood English, was its filthy mouthpiece to the media, including translations of anti-Zionists lying , hateful attacks.

Daas Torah : Newly coined phrase, don't be intimidated by it or them. Your local shul rebbele is just a valid daas Torah as anybody else.

The Litvak apikorus that's stinking up this blog is angry because he sees quotes and stories from rabbonim who contradict his meraglim shitta, therefore he bounces back and call US, the defenders of Zion and the tzaddikim R' Kook & R' Teichtal ugly bizoyin names.
When he uses degrading words against US, be assured that he means every single rav that was featured on the DIN blog, by myself others to bring our point of view across. We didn't invent our position, it there for the asking and taking.
Though we advocate for a position, we use proof, evidence and primary TRUE sources to back us up. This baryoni, who rebels against his Dass Torah against the Internet has the chutzpah to stick his manicured dovor achar fissel in our faces and demean gedolei yisroel, tzaddikim and kedoshim.
Make no mistake about it:
When he harangues against me, DIN and whoever else, he means the holy rabbonim who totally disagreed with his 99%.
Yiddish :Die shviger shreit oif die tochter, ubber zie meint die shnurr... Mother-in-law yells at daughter, but really means the daughter-in-law.
Farkilte fissel is 10% nachash hakadmoni, 80% dybbuk and sitra achra... but 100% deluxe, unadulterated, authentic apikorus and kofer.

Morei verabosei..
It's not for nothing that Moshe Rabbeinu gave Yehoshua a bracah not to be influenced by meraglim. These were big talmidei chachamim, tzaddikim handpicked by Moshe himself. They knew how to drei toire'lech. svoros, reyos from other people... in short .. they were, as we see, able to influence millions of Jews due to their megalomaniacal control freak negiyos. ( as per Zohar)

Anonymous said...

Part II...You read this baryoni with his archetypical litvish-yeshivish sentences and psookim;lach . Beware: This is the last gasp of the sitra achra before geulah....
Beavonoseinu harabim, we are not zochu to have a Lo Yechratz dog as was the case by yetziyas mitzraim.. Our dog, here, lavdil elef havdolus to the Mitzrishe dog, DOES yechratz. But not for long.
The shlug-upp of course is the reality of the State. There are 2 kinds of reality deniars in the mental ward. The guy who says he's Napoleaon, but isn't... and the guy who denies he's Napoleon, but is. There's a reason why they're locked up. But so many others with these psychotic obsessions have somehow eluded certification, roam the streets and blogs and glue themselves to obsessions that defy reality. One of them are the 3 shvuos despite the fact that it's a closed case. I'm not a doctor and can't help with this one.. sorry.

Anonymous said...

The hate isn't coming from our side. It's coming from the Munkacer/Satmar and now Litvish circles who curse us and our rabbonim, assault us, lie about us and pray for the demise chas vesholom of an eidu of some 7 millions Jews Bl"a"r. .
They lost, we won.

Why are you on the Internet, baryoni????????????? You're probably machmir as per Chazon Ish kezayis but rebel against your daas Torah to stay outta here...

He's an example of what this sina and kinah spawned. He's busy reading the hateful arguments and hagiographic biographies of rabbonim going back generations and comes here to chzer-fissel oink, oink away his rabid poisonous eytz hadas fruit for us to imbibe in.
I picked up a copy of the mysterious Roanoake disappearance of the 1587 colony on my vacation and I guarantee you this:
If on the chance that this book contains even 60% truth and 40 sheker, it's still a more worthwhile book than his 40% truth and 60 sheker.
Why are you on the Internet, baryoni?????

Asher al kayn rabossei, I have a plan: see next post, please....

Anonymous said...

By the way, the Derby is posting these parts....

Match up the secular anti-religious haters, and I'll admit there are those in EY, I won't deny it. Match them up with the Satmar/Brisk/Lakewood crowd, the haters from the other side.
As my ECCENTRIC physics teacher once told us ECCENTRIC nerdy Zhlubbs in class... 2 negatives = a positive... Maybe the offspring will mentch out..
Meantime, let's daven for State of Israel, its Jews and chayalim.
The sane one amongst us know there are bad apples everywhere.. We the carriers of the Zionist tradition know that we MUST show, bderech kavod, our heritage to the lost tinokim shenishbo.. not with curses and sinah. Not to pull bad things out of proportion, not to lump all secular together, but to show, as Maran Rosh Hagolah, Harav Kook Zat'l taught us, that there is light in every Jew. As the great Rav Teichtal HY"D, who ran from the Munkacer derech, did a 180 wanted from us.. Praise the Land, work with our Jews whom Hashem ALSO loves.. Ki LO yidachhh Nobody.. We, in this month of Ellul, look inside OURSELVES instead at OTHER people's faults & sins. We say Mipnei CHAOEYNU, not CHATUECHEM..Pay no heed to this horde of primitive cold-hearted frummie barbarians....barbarians, please forgive me.. lehavdil.
Why are you on the Internet???
WHY????????????????????

the Derby,.... looking for a can of baked beans and some 1/2 sour pickles..

Anonymous said...

To derby- I don't disagree with most of what you said but...

"We didn't invent our position, it there for the asking and taking.
Though we advocate for a position, we use proof, evidence and primary TRUE sources to back us up"

The people who support the shitta against yours also have proof and gedolim don't act like yours is the only shitta that can be gleamed from the holy torah.

"If there's bigger baal gavve shtunkatch anywhere like him on this planet , I'd like to know who"
And now I do know. YOU! for thinking that YOU can tell Rav Avigdor miller Zatzal zy'a that what he wrote is a chillul hashem. Learn who is greater than you in torah.

Anonymous said...

To derby- I don't disagree with most of what you said but...

"We didn't invent our position, it there for the asking and taking.
Though we advocate for a position, we use proof, evidence and primary TRUE sources to back us up"

The people who support the shitta against yours also have proof and gedolim don't act like yours is the only shitta that can be gleamed from the holy torah.

"If there's bigger baal gavve shtunkatch anywhere like him on this planet , I'd like to know who"
And now I do know. YOU! for thinking that YOU can tell Rav Avigdor miller Zatzal zy'a that what he wrote is a chillul hashem. Learn who is greater than you in torah.

Anonymous said...

Its obvious you never saw & avadai didnt learn harav teichtals seforim, he was a zealous fervent antizionist if there ever was one, and for anyone to say & believe that what he said in those trying times when the malach hamoves was at his doorstep, and for known reasons he wrote things that completely contradicted his strongest lifelong beliefs, to believe that you have to be a moron & worse. Kevodo shel harav teichtal bumkomo munach, nobody is judging him we surely would not have done better, however those that claim that his book 'eim habanim' was his 180 about face, are the ones that to say the least are disgracing him and his legacy, which is rich & big. Using a condemned to die persons unfortunate
deeds which at the severity of the moment looked to him that will save his life, for others to make hay of that, there are no words harsh enough to explain the depravity of that person.

Anonymous said...

Derby, you are mistaken about Chazon Ish. He does not enter into the equation with most chassidishe poskim because after they learn Minchas Eluzar etc etc, they don't have time to learn him too. But the chassidishe poskim who are big bekiyim quote his sefer on Shulchan Aruch all the time, at least leravcha demilsa.

Now don't make us laugh about convicted criminal Hertz Frankel. He is fort a Galitziyaner who will never REALLY be accepted by the Romanian gypsies.

Anonymous said...

to 11:16,
I'm half chasidish and you are right about Chazon Ish, they learn and quote him but don't mostly follow his halachic psak.

Anonymous said...

to 11:09

Obviously, you don't believe in tsguvah. Thank G-D , there's a G-D who does. I recommend the English tramslation by Rabby Moshe Lichtman if you can still get it. I also have the original Loshon Kodesh version which is even more difficult to get.. Eim Habonim Semeichu... Last year I bought 5 copies of the Lichtman book for people gratis, and paid for them myself. Bought them at Laamda Publishers in Crown Heights Brooklyn. For the sane, objective Israel loving public, please get this holy sefer by a tzaddik who admitted his earlier errors befarhesye. What a breath of fresh air.
The primitive barbarians who want to degrade Maran Rosh Hagolah Harav Kook are trying to do the same to this tzaddik, who was murdered in a box car carrying him to Auschwitz, by a Ukranian guard. He beat him to death because the Kadosh Harav Teichtal deared challenge him when he pulled a piece of bread away from another passenger in the train. This is the man whom the lehavdil the poster above, a rabid violent dog barker, lehavdil to the wonderful Lo Yechratz dogs of yetziyas Mitzraim, dares to denigrate.

Oh.. Can't wait for the new book on Reb Yoilesh and how he survived...Not that we don't know..
Not to criticize but wasn't Rabbi Shapiro, of Munkatcz fame a bit, you know, eccentric? Whatever..

The Satmar faction who among other things, had money to pay R' Avigdor Miller ( who was also a racist) to translate their blood thirsty hate into English and make a big Chillul Hashem, has money to help the Neturei Karta's expenses for advertisement against the State, interestingly has no $$$$$ to help the Neturei KLAVTES with their personal expenses , as many come to America and shnorr in shuls 4 at a time.

the Derby. Happy Rosh Chodesh... and YOU there... Yes YOU...!!! Please leash your dog and clean up his litter.... Don't let him meichen himself on blogs....

Anonymous said...

Obviously, you don't believe in tsguvah... meant to write" Teshuvah"

Anonymous said...

to 11:08

It's ok to have another shitta and have civilized discussions, even though the the proof is in the pudding... The State... Regardless... The basic issue is that the other side has demonized, harassed and cursed the pro-Zionist side. When was the last time you saw Mizrachi, kippa sruga, Rav Kook's talmidim, YU grads, even R'Moshe's talmidim and stam ordinary Jews act with such reckless inhumanity to other Jews like Attilah the Hun??? That's the core issue. Those mentioned above are busy with their lives, learn Torah, develop interests, et. etc.... The fanatical side however, teaches youngsters as old as 3, a virulent sadistic shitta first and foremost, then Chumsah and mishne.It's very sick, really.
About R' Miller????? 'nuph said.
Your litvishe shita of who is or isn't greater in Torah is off-the-wall not relevant stuff. Greater in Torah doesn't automatically make one right. You guys judge people by what they know instead of how they apply even the little they know to G-D and humanity. That's why the extreme yeshivish crowd morphed into this weird offshoot religion of stressing greater importance of pilpul and spending years on a blatt instead of looking into what and who other people, including umos haolam are.. their essence and beauty... Creations of Hashem.. You one-sided tunnel- visioned extremists don't see it.

And no, gavhe is NOT my thing, but maybe eccentricity is, ... meaning I don't drink Malaga from a public vat like millions of others..
Did I already mention R' Miller??
See? maybe I have this other issue.. forgetfulness...


Gee... Sometimes I wish I can talk to birds like Shlomo Hamelch...or trees.... Don't anybody call him eccentric... Just ingenious, smart and full of Ruach Hakodesh... Ha.. Little midgets calling great minds eccentric...
R' Miller said that.... Oh Stop! You already mentioned him, Derbileh...

Derby.... scrambled eggs and toast, please... NO , NO, No ketchup !!!!!

Anonymous said...

"About R' Miller????? 'nuph said.
Your litvishe shita of who is or isn't greater in Torah is off-the-wall not relevant stuff. Greater in Torah doesn't automatically make one right. You guys judge people by what they know instead of how they apply even the little they know to G-D and humanity. That's why the extreme yeshivish crowd morphed into this weird offshoot religion of stressing greater importance of pilpul and spending years on a blatt instead of looking into what and who other people, including umos haolam are.. their essence and beauty... Creations of Hashem.. You one-sided tunnel- visioned extremists don't see it."

I didn't say that means Rav Avigdor miller Zatzal was always right it does mean though that we still have kavod for a gadol byisroel and realize that he not Derby's bar plugta.

Anonymous said...

".... he not Derby's bar plugta.."

Fair enough. My intention was not to be his bar plugta but to point out a couple of things about him that bothered me.
Actually, I read his books and bought them for a few non-frum people with whom I interacted years ago, and attended some of his shiyurim.

the Derby