Sunday, August 24, 2014

R' Yoel Teitelbaum, Satmar Rebbe said that it's far better to Violate the Shabbos or to bow to a cross than to vote in Israeli Elections!

Loose Translation of a conversation with R' Yoel Teitelbaum z"l in reference to Israeli elections!
They were trying to convince the Rebbe, to give his blessings to have  his followers vote, so they would have more influence in Israeli politics.

"As soon as the Rebbe zy"a heard these words, he became totally enraged. His holy face became red like fire, and banged hard on the table and said with a holy fire:
"This is final, I won't speak any further, It is prohibited to vote in the elections! Do you know why?
Because the holy Torah say so!"
While uttering these words, the Rebbe again banged very hard on the table and fell back into his chair.... and said:
"Do you know what I am going to tell you" the Rebbe raised his holy hand and pointed with his finger and said:
"better to smoke 20 cigarettes on Shabbos then to vote once in the elections."
The Rebbe continued, and again raised his hand :
  "And I will add one more thing, better to bow down 5 times to a cross then to vote once in the elections."
Then the Rebbe pointed with his fingers toward the 3 book shelves and said: "The Holy Torah says this!""

DIN: I just did a Bar-Ilan search on the entire Torah, and didn't see anywhere that you cannot vote in the Israeli Elections!

What I did find is that one is prohibited to violate the shabbos and one is prohibited to bow down to the avodah zara.

And what I did see is that the Agudah (Moetzes Gedoilei Ha'Torah) required every one to vote and so did Rav Shach, who had his own party. Ger, Belz, Chabad, Kloizenberg, Bobov, Rav Ovadia Yosef who had his own party, Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, Rav Eliyashav, Reb Chaim Kanievsky all advocated voting in the elections!
So did they all violate the non-existent Halacha? 
Or was the Satmar Rebbe the only one at Har Sinai, and in his Torah it says, that you cannot vote in Israeli Elections?
Or was the Satmar Rebbe at Har Sinai and the rest of us on another mountain? 


Anonymous said...

Brisker rav agreed with the Satmar rebbe as did the chazon ish. The shitta is that voting in the elections is being modeh to avodah zarah. do a bar ilan search on what that means.

Dusiznies said...

to 8:28
As you yourself said that it is just that.... "a Shitta"
Most Gedoilei Hador as I pointed out were all for voting in the elections...
So are you agreeing that one should rather violate Shabbos or be an ovaid avoda Zara, than to vote?
Crazy stuff!

Anonymous said...

Satmar Ruv did not write this himself.

Brisker Rov & Chazon Ish were gedolei hador so careful what you say about them

srulyc said...

Where is this story published?

Dusiznies said...

T 9:23
Answer me, would the Chazon Ish and the Brisker Rav say that one should sooner be an ovad avoda zara or be mechallel shabbos, then to vote?

to srulic
was published in both Der Yid, and der blatt

Anonymous said...

Sinaa mekalkeles es hashira, you are obsessed with finding faults of the kodesh hakadashim shehechzir atara leyoshna, the geon hageonim raban shel kol bnei hagola maran misatmar, its so obvious and obnoxious, it wont do you any good, take your bipolar medicine regularly, to control your ocd.

Anonymous said...

Is this a piece of news? Of course that is the daas Torah of the rebbe, which he elaborately explains in great detail, in his monumental work, sefer hakadosh vayoel Moshe, that taking any part in the medinah directly or indirectly, is yeihureig veaal yaavor.

Anonymous said...

"would the Chazon Ish and the Brisker Rav say that one should sooner be an ovad avoda zara"

I don't believe the Satmar Rov actually said it either. Doesn't make sense even from his standpoint. It was another one of those fruit loops who takes Satmar Rov's opinions into outer space where no man has gone for before.

Dusiznies said...

to 11:18
So Reb Ashkanazi, the Rebbe's Gabbai, is a liar?
In this respect I agree with you, they were all a bunch of liars, telling stories about the Rebbe that never happened... I totally agree

Anonymous said...

There are a bunch of lowlives & losers & batlonim who have been drivers of various Litvishe roshei yeshiva. They are mockingly referred to as the baalei agoloh.

Rebbishe gabboyim have often been worse. While the gabbai of R' Yoelish may have only been guilty of a wild exaggeration or outright making up that story, take a look at the criminal gangsters that are gabboyim in today's Satmar, raping girls and behind witness intimidation.

Anonymous said...

So are you agreeing that one should rather violate Shabbos or be an ovaid avoda Zara, than to vote?
Crazy stuff!

No i'm saying if you hold of the shitta which the satmar rebbe did, that by voting you are being modeh to avodah zarah than it makes sence (Not saying that i agree that it is)

Dusiznies said...

to 2;19
I learned Mesactas Avodah Zarah many times, and the gemarrah is very specific what "avoda zara" is, and that's because there are many halachos that are nogaiah.
People often use the metaphor "Avoda Zara" about money etc...
But money, for example, even if you call it avoda zara, every idiot understands that its only a metaphor.
Also the internet, the Gedolim have called the internet "avoda zara" but they are only using that as a metaphor since the internet can be destructive...
When the Rebbe says that one can smoke 20 cigarettes on Shabbos rather than vote once in the election, or when he states that it is far better to bow down to a cross than to vote once, then he no longer sees voting as a metaphor, but he sees it as actually worse than avoda zara!
and that makes absolutely no sense!
And that's not my opinion but the opinion of most Gedoilei Hador living in Eretz Yisroel!

Marlboro YungerMan said...

"20 cigarettes on Shabbos"

There is a meshugass among Israeli yeshivaleit to put cigarette smoke in bottles to inhale on Shabbos.

Anonymous said...


Here he is again... You know who... wink, wink..
Again, just walked in, didn't really read the article yet but was curious about comments anyway..
Why are you on the Internet??? Daas Torah, remember ??

I know that before learning what Bilam's ass said we need to say birchas hatorah..Does same apply when we read svorelich intermixed with memrelech intermixed with vertelech intermixed with Toirelech that the tamei baryoni writes?? Mmmmmmmmmmm...
Why are you on the Internet yomum volaylu and being mevatel so much Torah?????? Huh?????

As my father OB"M used to say to people like you.... " IHR MACHT A MISTAKE!!!!

the Derby....

Anonymous said...

In a way it's probably better that he's oiver on issur of daas Torah about the Internet and spending time here, than being on the streets committing petty burglary, setting up 3-card-monte stands and pickpocketing the eccentric public.
As my eccentric great aunt Mimmi once told me , " Be thankful for little things." And I am.

Derby... G'nite

BT said...

Do you have to be obnoxious. Obviously the Satmar Rebbe was using a logic to make his statement. And he was entitled to do so. He was a great scholar and a great man.