Monday, December 12, 2022

"Herzl is our George Washington and Thomas Jefferson all wrapped in one'

 If the above video makes you feel pride, you are an external Zionist. But if the video brings you to tears, then you are an internal Zionist, and that is eternally beautiful.

"Today, Theodor Herzl is best known for his beard, not his books," laments Gil Troy, editor of "The Zionist Writings of Theodor Herzl," in his introductory essay to a new edition of Herzl's diaries.

Troy, a professor of history at Canada's McGill University now living in Israel, wants to make Zionism's founders come alive for the next generation. His latest effort is a three-volume collection of Herzl's writings.

The brainchild behind the series is Matthew Miller, owner of Koren Publishers, a Jerusalem publishing house producing mainly religious texts. Drawing inspiration from the Library of America, a publisher of notable American classics and historical works, Miller decided to create a Library of the Jewish People to bring together the best writings from Jewish history in the fields of religion, the arts and politics.

"The Zionist Writings" are the first titles in that ambitious effort. They include a fairly comprehensive collection of Herzl's diaries and other works, including his play "The New Ghetto" (1894), of which Herzl biographer Alex Bein said, "Herzl completed his inner return to his people"; Herzl's 1896 manifesto "The Jewish State"; and important essays, like "The Menorah" (1897), showing how, through Zionism, Herzl reconnected with his Judaism.

The series uses translations from the original German made by historian Harry Zohn in the 1960s. Other works, like "The New Ghetto," are newly translated by Uri Bollag.

Troy, who spoke to JNS the day after the book launch at the Menachem Begin Heritage Center in Jerusalem, said the Herzl series is his fourteenth book project and the first where he stood before an audience and said "Shehecheyanu" – a Jewish prayer to give thanks for special occasions – both to mark the 75th anniversary of the date the UN General Assembly voted in favor of a Jewish state (Nov. 29, 1947) and to celebrate the launch of Library of the Jewish People.

"It's an attempt to invite the Jewish people to build a bookshelf, because we've been building a bookshelf for thousands of years, but most of us don't know the Jewish texts, the Jewish canon," he said.

Troy sees no better place to start than Herzl. "He's our George Washington and our Thomas Jefferson all wrapped in one," said Troy. "Washington's diaries are interesting, but they're not ideological. That's why, when talking about Herzl in American terms, we say he's a cross between Washington and Jefferson, because he's also a conceptualizer."

Troy, who pored through 2,700 pages of Herzl's diaries, described them as "a political-science version of an artist's sketchbook."

"Herzl draws in the contours of the Jewish state. He plans different dimensions from a flag to the architectural aesthetic, from labor-capital relations to the dynamics between rabbis and politicians," Troy writes in one essay.

The series is organized chronologically. Troy wrote 11 introductions, one for each year Herzl was active as a Zionist (he died at 44 having suffered for years from a weak heart). Dividing by years can be artificial, but not in Herzl's case, Troy said, noting important yearly milestones in Herzl's development as a thinker and a leader.

Herzl, an assimilated European Jew, concluded through experience and observation that the only solution to the Jewish problem was a Jewish state. "Let them give us sovereignty over a portion of the globe that is large enough for our just national needs, and we will take care of everything else," he said.

The process to reach that conclusion was gradual – 13 years by Herzl's own estimate. "Just as the Jew-haters started seeing various unappealing traits as endemic to the Jewish character, Herzl started seeing Jew-hatred as endemic to the European character," Troy wrote.

When the idea of a Jewish state finally did spring upon him, it was like a thunderbolt. "I have the solution to the Jewish question," Herzl wrote while working on his manifesto. "I know it sounds mad; and at the beginning I shall be called mad more than once – until the truth of what I am saying is recognized in all its shattering force."

A talented journalist and playwright, he possessed a unique set of gifts – showman, statesman, prophet and political thinker – that propelled him to the head of the Zionist movement, which existed prior to Herzl but in scattered form. Herzl termed Zionism "the Jewish people on the march."

Herzl not only wrote the manifesto for a Jewish state but started the Jews on the path to building one, meeting world leaders and creating key institutions, including a Zionist congress, a newspaper – Die Welt, or "The World" – for disseminating Zionist ideas, and a Jewish Colonial Bank to raise the funds necessary for settling the Land of Israel.

While Herzl endured enormous obstacles and setbacks in pursuing his course, he maintained a remarkable surety of eventual success. The diaries are a testament to that certainty, which he begins in 1895 to chronicle his Zionist activities. "What dreams, thoughts, letters, meetings, actions I shall have to live through – disappointments if nothing comes of it, terrible struggles if things work out. All that must be recorded."

Herzl believed that a Jewish state was "a world necessity – and that is why it will come into being." When Herzl passed away on July 3, 1904, his will directed that he be buried in Vienna next to his father "until the Jewish people will carry my remains to Palestine."

Q: What attracted you to this project?

Troy: One of the things I've also been working on is what I call "identity Zionism." Herzl focused on political Zionism, an outer Zionism, which was all about establishing the state. … If political Zionism was all about establishing the state, identity Zionism is about building our core sense of self. Many of the core texts talk not just about an outer Zion but an inner Zion as well.

[Ed. note: Herzl himself touched on this inner Zionism, writing in 1895: "No one ever thought of looking for the Promised Land where it actually is – and yet it lies so near … This is where it is: within ourselves!" Similarly, in a speech in 1896 he talks about an inner transformation through the struggle for an outer Zionism. "I do know that even by merely walking along this road we will become different persons. We shall thereby regain our lost inner wholeness and along with a little character – our own character, not a Marrano-like, borrowed, untruthful character, but our own."]

As the volunteer educational chair of Birthright Israel, I find that what young people are missing most are things like identity, connection, community.

Herzl himself was kind of lost, traumatized. He felt cut off because he was being robbed of all the dreams that he'd bought into to be a proper European. The Jewish people were being robbed. And all of a sudden, he said, "I want something else." If you look at his journey, one of the exciting things about the diaries is that it's not a snapshot, it's a continuous, moving, motion picture. You see his evolution. He discovers bit by bit that Judaism is not just a dead ancestral force. It's not just this defensive thing that we've been tied to by our common enemies. It's something positive.

He has this beautiful story called "The Menorah." A year before, when he just started getting involved in Jewish issues, he was at home lighting his Christmas tree candles when the chief rabbi of Vienna walks in. He's not embarrassed; the chief rabbi of Vienna is embarrassed. The next year, he writes this story about a man who was cut off from his past, who paid the price for being Jewish but didn't appreciate its greatness. The man decides to buy a Menorah.

The first night he lights two candles, and there's a little bit of light in the house. And each night, he lights another candle, and another candle, and more and more light comes into the house. And by the end, the house is ablaze with glory. And he realized that this is the journey that he's on, and that he's taking the Jewish people on. We all know that you're supposed to put your Menorah on the outside, but also you see it from the inside. That's identity Zionism. Political Zionism is the external Zionism. It says, "We are people who have a right to a state of our own." But it's also that inner light that says, in a world which eviscerates community, in a world that robs us of meaning and a world that robs us of connection, we're going to have this inner light and it's going to be a light that we share.

Q: What is the state of Zionist education today?

A: The only Zionism they've heard about in the States is the one that's being targeted; it's defensive and about Israel advocacy. In Israel, Zionism's been mummified. It's something you need to know to pass your matriculation exams – explain why this street is named Jabotinsky, or that one after Ahad Ha'am. But they don't look at Jabotinsky or Ahad Ha'am, or any of the others, as if they were alive today with ideas that are still relevant. Many young people, when you actually speak to them about Zionism as something alive, something dynamic, something relevant for today, get very excited.

Q: Why is it that of the two most important events relating to the Jewish people in the last century – the Holocaust and the creation of Israel – only one is studied while the other is virtually ignored?

A: I think the short answer is we're a traumatized people. The scale of the death, the scale of the suffering, is something that the human mind is still struggling with. So I understand it on one level, but I agree – we are so addicted to the negative, and who wants to join that?

I remember when I was in university. I didn't understand why the Holocaust courses would get 400 people and you could barely fill a classroom with anybody interested in learning about the State of Israel. And we're seeing it right now. We're building up to the 75th anniversary of the State of Israel and I'm not feeling the excitement. I'm not feeling the love. I've read a number of articles about this, challenging philanthropists and statesmen and Hollywood to start preparing for the 75th. This is an opportunity to frame Israel outside the politics and partisanship. Here's an opportunity to celebrate the achievements of Israel.

And I'm well aware when I'm calling for Hollywood where they stand and how uncomfortable they'll be, but I can't imagine a greater opportunity. … Unfortunately, American Jews aren't thinking that way, and I don't think enough people here in Israel are thinking that way either: what do we do for the 75th?

Q: What would Herzl say if he could see Israel today?

A: He would be amazed. To think of that confession he scribbled to dear diary, embarrassingly, after the Zionist Congress, that 50 years from now the world will see that we established the Jewish state in this little Zionist Congress. People say he was off by one, but actually 50 years and three months later the United Nations signed off on this extraordinary thing. So I think he would say, "Wow, it really worked." True, there would be disappointment; he did think antisemitism would disappear. He also expected the exile, the Diaspora, to disappear. So he bet big on certain things that turned out to be wrong. But on the whole, he would be shocked at how well he did.

Q: What are you working on next?

A: I'm starting this initiative with Gefen Publishing to write a series of children's books, for 12-to-14-year-olds, pivoted around choice. So the first one was Theodor's choice, that big moment when he decides to join the Jewish people. I'm now writing about David Ben-Gurion, which is much harder, because Herzl has those 11 years and it's one choice. Ben-Gurion has a series of choices. I think within a couple of months we'll have that first book out.


Cohen Y said...

Ridiculous & totally ludicrous
Herzl at most promoted idea which was already getting currency in much of the world to assimilationist Jews who would need a new raison d'etre
And was largely unsuccessful .
Didn't even invent the name.

Did it beat the alternative? Per possibly
But his movement may have been a catalyst in exacerbating the very problems he was trying to solve. Chicken or egg?

Idi Amin said...

Herzl was willing to make Uganda the "Zionist" homeland.

Did Herzl even have a bris milah? Are any of his descendants Yidden?

When R' Shmuel Berenbaum visited an out of town day school, he would not speak in the auditorium until they took down Herzl's portrait, and for good reason!

Dusiznies said...

To Idi Amin
כשמו כן הוא
Satmar and Skver did exactly what Herzl originally planned then actually fought against
Satmar's "Uganda" is Kiryat Yoel and Skver's "Uganda" is Spring Valley
I don't see you asking if the Satmar and Skverer Rebbe had a "bris mila?"
Herzl like the Satmar Rebbe left no descendants, Herzl's daughter perished in the Concentration Camps.
Your Berenbaum Story is fake News

Idi Amin said...

Oh come on, despite all of Satmar-Skver's problems, how can you put them on equal footing with Herzl as far as bris milah questions?

The story with the Mirrer rosh yeshiva is verified along with some other drama that happened during the same trip.

Herzl's kids:

His daughter Paulina was a mentally ill drug addict. She died in 1930 at age 40 of a heroin overdose.

His only son Hans was given a secular upbringing & Herzl notably refused to allow him a bris milah. After Herzl's early death, Hans successively became an apostate Baptist, then a Catholic, and flirted with other Protestant denominations. Hans shot himself to death the day of his sister Paulina's funeral; he was 39 years old.

Paulina & Hans had little contact with their young sister, "Trude" (Margarethe, 1893–1943). She married Richard Neumann, a man 17 years her elder. Neumann lost his fortune in the Great Depression. Burdened by steep costs of hospitalizing Trude, who suffered from severe depression requiring repeated hospitalization, Neumann finances were precarious. The Nazis sent Trude & Richard to Theresienstadt where they died. Her body was burned. (Her mother who died in 1907, was cremated. Her ashes were lost by accident.)

At the request of his father Richard Neumann, Trude's son (Herzl's only grandchild), Stephan Theodor Neumann, (1918–1946) was sent for his safety to England in 1935 to the Viennese Zionists & the Zionist Executive in Israel based there. In England he read extensively about his grandfather. Zionism hadn't been a significant part of his background in Austria, but Stephan became an ardent Zionist, the only descendant of Theodor Herzl to have become one. Anglicizing his name to Stephen Norman, during World War II, Norman enlisted in the British Army rising to rank of Captain. In 1945-46 he visited British Palestine "to see what my grandfather started." He wrote in his diary extensively about his trip. What most impressed him was the "look of freedom" on the faces of the children, which were not like the sallow look of those from concentration camps.

Norman planned to return to Israel following his military discharge. The Zionist Executive worked for years through Dr. Lauterbach to get Norman to come to Israel as a symbol of Herzl, Norman followed the advice of Dr. Selig Brodetsky. Dr. Rosenblum, editor of Haboker, a Tel Aviv daily that later became Yediot Aharonot, noted in late 1945 that Dr. Weizmann deeply resented the sudden intrusion & reception of Norman when he arrived in Britain. Norman spoke to the Zionist conference in London. Haboker reported, "Something similar happened at the Zionist conference in London. The chairman suddenly announced to the meeting that in the hall there was Herzl's grandson who wanted to say a few words. The introduction was made in a dry way. It was felt that the chairman looked for — and found —some stylistic formula which would satisfy the visitor without appearing too cordial to anybody in the audience. In spite of that there was a great thrill in the hall when Norman mounted on the platform. At that moment, Weizmann turned his back on the speaker & remained in this bodily & mental attitude until the guest finished his speech." The 1945 article went on to note that Norman was snubbed by Weizmann & by some in Israel during his visit because of ego, jealousy, vanity & personal ambitions.

Dusiznies said...

Idi Amin כשמוכן הוא
It's Fake News and even if it wasn't. So what? What does it prove? That he asked that Herzl's photo be taken what?
You write that "Paulina was a mentally ill drug addict. She died in 1930 at age 40 of a heroin overdose" What are you even saying or implying?
What about that the daughter of the Belzer Rebbe threw herself off a roof pre-WW2 so is that any reflection on the Belzer Rebbe z"l? The Baal Ha'Tanye's son converted and became a Christian, is that now a reflection on the Rav Shulchan Aruch? R' Aron Kotler's sister was a staunch Haskala member, is that a reflection of R' Aron Kotler z"l?
The Grandson of the Satmar Rebbe is presently a commander in the IDF and OTD, so is that a reflection on the Satmar Rebbe. R' Shach's son went OTD is that a reflection of R' Shach z"l? I can go on and on, and I actually will very soon just to show people likeyou that take the tragic family history of a great man and make it look like it had something to do with his great selfless dedication to the Jewish people. He gets credit for the creation of the State of Israel, that houses the majority of the Jewish people, and supports Torah institutions to the tune of over 250 million Dollars a year, and has more Torah being learned than anytime in Jewish history. What a zchus?

Can't believe this Putz said...

Idi Amin
Your entire diatribe proves that you just copied and pasted and never read his diary and his real story. Bur either way, in Yiddishkeit it's the effort that counts, and here in Israel we see very clearly that not only did his efforts on behalf the Jewish people get rewarded with a beautiful vibrant State, but the results came to fruition. Guys like you still live in the swamps of extremist irrelevant narishkeitin and like the Yevanim you will soon become extinct.

Binyamin Zev Jabotinski said...

What if I told you that except for Yitzchok, Avraham Aveenu's children were a bunch of murderers?
What if I told you that Yitzchok who offered himself to the Akeidah, had a son that was a murderer?
What if I told you that the ancestor of Dovid Hamelech screwed his own daughters?
What if I told you that Dovid Hamelech's own children wanted to murder him?
What if I told you that Shlomo Hamelech had children that were "ovdei avoda zara?"
So what exactly is your point?

Brisker Payois said...

Mr Amin
Guys, get a load of this guy.
HE himself brings up the point that Herzl z"l initially wanted Uganda as the Jewish State then when DIN rightfully points out that both Satmar and Skver did the exact same think he says, " how can you put them on equal footing with Herzl?"
The answer is that you cannot, because Herzl only WANTED but Satmar and Skver actually DID THAT!
Aso the fact that Idi brings up Herzl's family history, shows that they have run out of answers, as the State of Israel is a fact, thanks to Herzl's vision.

Idi Amin said...

Of course Uganda is a pircha on Herzl because it makes a mockery out of his secular Zionism bonafides. You can bring 100 Rebbes, which even if they are hypocrites in other ways, at least they are consistent in not taking EY before Moshiach. Have you forgotten that lechatchila at least this is also the shita of all frumma except ** Modern Orthodox?

Rav Berenbaum demanded removal of the shvantz's portrait because he was a rasha. Herzl was against milah for his son and had his own wife cremated, among other horrifying avlos. Talk about Misyavnim (who were much worse then the Yevonim)!

And please don't try to transfer the tomech Torah zechus of Bibi & associates to that corrupt old fossil.

Who is going extinct when the majority of teenagers in Modern Ortho homes are no longer Shomer Shabbos? And as a principal of Ramaz admitted in an interview, he doesn't know what the future holds because 95% of his students in his huge flagship Modern Ortho school have hashkofos that are apikorsis mamash, not limited to their shilling for the militant toyeveh mob with all facets of it's abomination lifestyle! This is certainly worse than Lot doing his own daughters - even had Lot been Jewish.

Dusiznies said...

Idi Amin
(1)"Uganda" is NOT a "pircha on Herzl" it's actually a "pircha" on Satmar that established a Chassidishe "Uganda" in Monroe.It is also a "pircha" on Skver as they also established an "Uganda" in Spring Valley.

(2) The fact that 100 Rebbes are and were "consistent in not making EY before Moshiach" doesn't make them right; the facts on the ground actually make them wrong.

(3) The Rav Berenbaum story is false and even if it were true, means absolutely nothing.

(4) Herzl's wife (like Satmar) was actually against the establishment of the State of Israel and they had a rocky marriage precisely because of Herzl's obsession with creating the State. Mrs. Herzl actually died three years AFTER Herzl's death. So your statement that Herzl "had his wife cremated" makes absolutely no sense, and is blatant lie! Herzl himself asked that his bones be brought to Israel as he wrote in his own handwriting in his diaries.

(5)Mrs. Herzl was actually the one against giving her child, Hans, a Brit Mila when he was born and according to Shalom Goldman an historian who wrote an article in Tablet Magazine. Hans actually did have a Bris Mila when he was 15 years old. Herzl's youngest child, Trude, died in a Concentration Camp, in Theresienstadt.

Finally, your blabbering about Herzl's personal life means absolutely nothing in the big picture, because what he started was something bigger than himself and his family. He gets the credit for establishing a home to over 7 million Jews, a home where the Chareidim from Williamscrap, Fakewood, 5 Clowns, ShnoraPark, Shmonsey,and Slatcrap will be running when they come rounding you up, which I predict will be sooner than later.

Idi Amin said...

A lot of Modern Orthodox & secular will heatedly exclaim that Uganda Boogah Boogah Land is on par with Chutznik Chassidishe kiryos. Just because you guys are passionate about it, it doesn't mean that the machanos of Rav Kook ztl and lehavdil Ben Gurion sry win the argument over the majority of Klal Yisroel's gedolim (mechalelei Shabbos are not bichlal Amisecha for many purposes al pi the Chofetz Chaim & Rav Pam). Notice that many of your opponents in this still afford a lot of respect to Rav Kook ztl even though we believe he made a (honest) mistake.

It means 'nothing' that Rav Berenbaum holds Herzl is a rasha? Come on DIN, you are usually much more reasonable and will give at least something. Your emotions about EY, while admirable, are getting too much in the way in this instance. I know the mishpocho by the way and have verified several stories of the rosh yeshiva with them.

Herzl's rocky marriage has been interpreted in a different way. The alter Viener intellectual & NYU Fellow Amos Elon-Sternbach claims Herzl gave his wife an STD that he contracted years before meeting her.

Place of Burial: Cremated; her ashes were "misplaced"

Bones can come in solid or cremated forms - but not if they disappear.

There are no less than three scholarly sources that the old windbag Theodor himself was against Briso shel Avrohom Avinu for his son: Theodor Herzl by Doubleday (page 202), The Gender of Desire by SUNY Press (page 181), and Female Circumcision by University of Pennsylvania Press (page 51).

Hans Herzl had a bris at 13, not 15. Ilse Steinberger promotes the suspicious supposed narrative that Hans willingly went along with it. However, a Jewish Daily Bulletin newspaper investigation in 1930 explains Hans was pressured by members of his London synagogue. The reporter continues that Hans later was mecharef umegadef against his bris. Hans said he "resented" the bris and felt "antagonism" against the synagogue members for their big idea. (Someone being koifer in his own bris is a geferlicha aveirah which causes him to become an oreil lehalacha & lose the protections of Avrohom Avinu. This is nothing to sneeze at.)

Vhats an Errera? said...

Sorry to intrude into the debate but I couldn't help notice that Herzl is a Hungarian who comes from Sfardim

From this Sfardi

Watch out for Sfardim who are Hungarian wannabes. It doesn't matter if these Sfardim become Neologen & Meshumodim like the the Herzls, or weirdos who think they can suddenly become Satmar, like Errera. Errera is the crook from a 90s ponzi scam in Lakewood who has left a long trail since then of shnorring under false pretenses & outright geneivos. He was appointed this year to be Mashgiach "Ruchni" or "Rosh Yeshiva" of Beri Weber's yeshiva meant to stop heimishe bucherim from going OTD. What a "winning" pick who can't even keep his own sons on the Derech. (No wonder when he's oisek a gantz tog in frauds & other sleazy activities)

Dusiznies said...

Idi the Amin
It is very obvious from your copy and pastes that you have no clue about Herzl.'
Herzel like other great people and I'll include Rebbe Akiva went thru an evolution in their lives and ideas.
When Herzl witnessed vicious anti-Semitism, he wanted so much to solve this problem. Coming from an assimilated family, he initially thought that if Jews converted then the hatred would go away, he concluded that this was a bad idea. He had no previous connection to Eretz Yisrael, so he came up with the Uganda idea, which Satmar and Skver later adopted. When he learned of the connection that Jews had with Eretz Yisrael, he made a 360 degree turn and fought vigorously to establish a State. If you would read his diaries, you would see the journey he went thru until the First Zionist Congress.
The Reform, Haskala and ironically the frum rebbes who like Zohar explains about the Meraglim were afraid that they would lose their communities were adamantly opposed. There were a group of Gedoilim, like the Netziv, Harav Zvi Kalisher and Rav Guttmacher that embraced Herzl's idea and so the Chovevei Tzion was formed.
Hashem was very angry at the gedoilim and Askanim that discouraged their sheep from making Aliyah, so he brought Hitler ym"s to convince them. After the war many Chassidishe and Litvishe Gedoilim learned their bitter lesson and established beautiful communities in the newly formed State of Israel and some even joined the Knesset.
After the 6-day war, when the Ribono Shel Olam performed open miracles, there were Gedoilim that said that this wasn't any miracle at all but was from the Sitra Achra.
So to convince them the Ribono Shel Olam sent Trump a goy to publicly state that Yerushlayim is the capital of Israel, but the Gedoilim of
monroe, Fakewood and Williamscrap and Abbas from the PLO mocked Trump and openly said that Yerushlayim is not the Capital. Hashem decided to take Trump away since the Jews didn't want to see the open signs, so he sent Shvartzas to beat the hell out of Chareidim living in Crown Fart, Shnorer=Park and Williamcrap and Fakewood to maybe knock some sense into them. But the Chareidie Jews like Idi Amin and his sick demented cronies still don't get it.
I hope and pray that Hashem doesn't send Biden's 85,000 IRS officers to round up the Jews and send them to the real Uganda
As far as the Modern Jews that you mention are concerned, I am not a Modern Jew and I actually caucus with Chareidim, so I'll let them answer your very bizarre and convoluted diatribe.

Anonymous said...

Hey Idi ...
Hopefully , you're wearing a jumbo bib as you're regurgitating and vomiting old shekerlach and irrelevant poppycock. Uganda issue has already been discussed, his offspring's lives are irrelevant.
I notice that R'Berenbaum is buried in Sanhedria , made possible by the great Herzl's unwavering dream , instead of the more local Washington Cemetery , near Bay Pk'way ... dorten under the "F" train.
BTW.. Many rabbanim lamented Herzl's untimely death and even eulogized him.
Oh .. Sitting here in De Dikke Daahme's Meichel for the Beichel cafe ( her father was the badcahan the Rev. Tobias Dikke) , some sunnyside eyer - shpeiss fresser wants to know how come Moshe Rabbeinu's own children weren't at Matan Torah , according to the opinion that they didn't come.
Anyway Idi...There's talk on the Boro Khaark gesslach that there's a mangel in Chinese valises and suitcases. Try to get a couple now , otherwise yo be sitting at ElAl terminal only with gatches , as you run like Jesse Owens soon.
Bimchik der Tooter

Anonymous said...

Bitte include that many talmidim 's offspring who learned in lomdishe yeshivas in der Lita became irreligious. Include that many of today's youth from frum parents are OTD in frightening numbers. Never mind the modern orthodox. Stick to your heimishe !
BTW.. Lot's daughters did a mitzvah ... See Rashi ad loc that wine was miraculously prepared for them in the cave. Go argue with Hashem. BZ Herzl was wildly successful. If you don't want to build EY , than HE WILL FIND MESSENGERS. DARIUS ( Daryavesh ) helped build and finance the Bet Hamikdash.
Anyway.. While our mishpacha are learning Torah in Jerusalem while you're hanging out on the tumeneh Internet. Even Lot's daughters didn't do that. Wissen Sie ??
Cha Cha de Chazzente

Anonymous said...

Arguably, the majority of assimilated , intermarried American yidden shtamm from chareidi yidden who did have a bris milah. They came to the Goldene Medinah davka because they weren't Zionists and these great grandkids don't identify with Israel at all. So what's your point ? Herzl did tshuvah although he wasn't yet on your madreigeh , was nevertheless on his way. My religion preaches tshuva. What does Idi Haman's religion preach ?
The Derby ... fighting with sufganiot yetzer due to diet concerns.

Anonymous said...

Yes , it was gaining currency starting with talmidei Gra and Baal Shem. More current due to Rabbonim Kalischer , Mohiliver , Reinis ,Guttmacher and Alkalai , whose brilliant sefer I'm currently reading. Their influence was felt in so many frum homes and rabbis... Read the history . Herzl moved to make it a reality. Assimilationists opposed him vehemently as did extreme chareidis. The movement gained steam and Herzl did something about it. Chicken or the egg ? Who cares ?
Exacerbated problems ? Sure ... Everything was smooth sailing for Jews since we became a people.
Let me have a coupla eggs , Dikke Daahme ,and no ketchup.

Rasputin Groupies said...

Here are some guys who would appreciate Bimchik's Toots: Theodor's grandfather Simon Herzl's brothers, Moshe and Hershel Herzl, converted as adults to the Serbian Orthodox faith. They changed their names to Lafero Spasoevitch and Costa Petrovich.

From what we've been hearing on this site, can they too line up behind the great Rebbi Akiva? They must have had the 'purest' of intentions during their 'evolution' (a la Darwin?) that was probably gorem Putin to be nice to Berel Lazar. (Toot Toot! But maybe play it somewhat safe like Bill Clinton & "don't inhale" the stench)

Anonymous said...

Can't help but to repeat what I overheard at the Dikke Daam'eh Cafe.
What's the most useless advice one can give another which in any case will never help ?
DON'T be a putz !

Brisker Payois said...

Idi "Uganda" Amin
Wow! Rav Berenbaum wouldn't enter the building unless they took Herzl's photo off the wall, Wow Weee!
I just walked into a Kolell in Ramat Eshkol to daven Mincha and randomly asked the shteigers if they ever heard of R' Berenbaum? Not one! No one! Zero...I'll bet you dollars to Chanukah Donuts that they all knew who Herzl was.
The guys in the Kollell can learn in comfort because of Binyamin Zev Herzl z"l

Anonymous said...

Don't know if they did or didn't but I DO know that it's stale Zalensky Shirrt. Nobody gizz'a'krrapp ! Meanwhile the OTD chevra in your 'hood , not related to Herzl , and unlike you , never heard of Darwin , are doing their thing . Glad you brought up stench. The odor of Zionist haters shoveling smootches and spit on Democrat ample tucheses is overwhelming , considering that for Zlotys & Rubles , they sell all values and contradict everything they're darshaning about. And this is without changing names and absolutely doing milah... with all the cheikis or heikis or whatever they're called....

Bimchik der Tooter..

Alter Mirrer said...

Sorry to hear that the fake Brisker keeps such ignorant company. If you actually know any Briskers they will tell you most of the Berenbaum boys learned by R' Avrohom Yehoshua. One of them zl was nebich taken out by a Tzahal patrol. He didn't know that beaches were off limits late at night due to terrorist inflitrations via dinghy. When he went for a shpatzir for fresh air & the patrol ordered him to halt, he was in a panicked confusion & ran a few steps, so they shot him to death.

As an 18 year old bochur in Shangchai R' Shmuel was already becoming known as the Masmid Hador. All the gedolei Eretz Yisroel came to Rav Berenbaum's levaya. His son R' Leibel Berenbaum ztl was already an adam gadol in Bnei Brak when he was niftar at age 40 something.

Satmar Wannabe said...

The arrested scum who own & run this so called yeshiva are mostly uncles & cousins of that Errera loser.

There's also a financial dimension to this scandal that Novardok France have been schnorring all the years despite being billionaire real estate moguls who own thousands of apartments in Paris. Twinned with money laundering, it's why the head fundraiser was also arrested. Errera has been involved in their phony American fundraising and he uses the money from the Lakewood ponzi, stiffing banks on huge loans & personally hitting up wealthy NY heimishe as a supposed 'oremmer' Yid to invest the dirty millions in Monsey real estate.

Anonymous said...

Lol.. A dreikupp smorg of half/no truth street dog dung made to sound scholarly. You wasted 60 seconds of everybody's precious time.
Here's an idea :
Get ye to the railroad tracks , open a can of mehadrin garbanzos or pot of spicy cholent , and watch the trains go by. ( adapted from Brad Crandall 's closing radio show remarks )

Anonymous said...

Haaa . You know how the Goldsteins & Rubinsteins are related ? It's like this - Goldstein's grandma's Taiwanese orange cat chopped mice in Rubinstein's half brother's kretchmeh on any given Monday night. And the 1st cousin 2x removed on the Rubinstein side was married to Goldstein's Fetteh Shmiel's benzinkele.
Cha Cha

Anonymous said...

Alter Mirrer
Most of the "Alter Mirrer's" never got married.
Two points:
A) Rav' Birnbaum whom 95% of frum Jews never heard of, as the majority of frummies are now Chassidim, would have asked that any photo even a photo of the Satmar Rebbe to be taken down, as he did not want to be photographed speaking with a photo of be it Herzl, Satmar Rebbe or the Lubavitcher Rebbe looking down at him.
B) Rav Birnbaum's son a"h was gunned down by a security guard hired by a Natanya Hotel.

Anonymous said...

An old yid told us that he asked the Ch"I
If it would be appropriate to say yemach shmo after Herzl' s
(to be accurate The question might have been about Ben gurion instead, believe he said Herzl ) name. The answer - yes, but don't in public

Anonymous said...

Get a load of this little piece of shekerkrapp. An alter khaarker says b'shtika not to publicize that he cursed Louie Babka .. no, maybe Tzibbulye Kroit, but don't put it on a blog.. . Ci had a personal meeting with BG at the latter's request , and corresponded afterwords. CI lived in EY and would never utter this nonsense.BG had the most respect for the CI. Your ideology and Shytta has been destroyed and you're scrambling like desperate skunks trying to manufacture anything. Brandon won fair & square . Pence said so.

Bimchik der Tooter

Dusiznies said...

I'll tell you what it does say in public
לא תתעב מצרי כי גר היית בארצו
"you shall not reject an Egyption, for you were a sojourner in his land"
Let's take a look at Rashi:
אע"פ שזרקו זכוריכם ליאור מה טעם שהיו לכם אכסניא בשעת הדחק
So Rashi says that you cannot "reject an Egyption" even though they tortured us, they took our babies and threw them alive into the river, they took our live babies and used them as bricks, and tortured us,nevertheless you "shall not reject them"
Because they, the Egyptians were our hosts.
Yet according to you and that old fart, the Chazon Ish z"l said on a man that dedicated his entire life for the Jewish people and who served with distinction for 13 years "Yemach Shmo"
He supposedly said on a man who made it possible for 7 million Jews to have a home and be "hosts" to others... "Yemach Shmo"
Wow! To even repeat this outrageous disgusting lie is being a very sick deranged puppy.