Tuesday, December 19, 2023

Sick and Getting Sicker: Chareidie Rabbis denounce Chareidie journalists who praise soldiers


DIN: If you look in Tanach ( Shmuel 30:1) there is a similar "Oct 7 Story" with Dovid Hamelech. The Amalekites captured hostages,  women and children in the city of Ziklag, if I'm not mistaken, Ziklag was close to Gaza. So what did Dovid do?? The Tanach writes that he cried until he could no longer shed tears.

The people who had their wives and children taken hostage wanted to "stone" him, even though Dovid had himself two wives and children taken hostage.

 Why you ask would they want to stone him? 

According to the Radak, "Dovid Hamelech left the city of Ziklag unprotected", sound familiar?

The Klei Yakar says something that we in the Chareidie world can relate to, he says that the people were angry at  David Hamelech,  since he had not lost any children in the army as they did !

But then what did he do? 

He told the then Kohen Gadol, Ebiather, to inquire from the Urim Ve'Tumim on what to do.

To ask the Urim a question, it had to be specific. So what did Dovid Hamelech ask the Urim Ve'Tumim????

Did he ask what Kapital Tehillim to say? Did he first ask the Roshei Yeshivos to ask their talmidim to be "mechziek in Torah?"

Open a Tanach and be shocked to what he asked. 

All he asked was " Should I go to war? And will I succeed?"

That's it!!!! 

But why are we jumping to Tanach when we can go to the Torah itself , at the end of Parshas Mattos?

The Jews are ready to go into Eretz Yisrael after traveling 40 years in the Midbar, because they listened to the "gedoilim" who were part of the meraglim that didn't want Israel, and suddenly history repeats itself as two tribes now refuse to go into Eretz Yisrael. Shevet Gad and Shevet Reuvein, they wanted to remain in Chutz Le'aaretz. 

Why? Because they as the Midrash Hagodal states: "They attached more importance to their herds, their wealth. and put heavy emphasis on their material possessions."  

Moshe is of course in shock as we see just 2 verses down, he tells them the repercussions of the meraglim story! He reminds them of the reason they spent 40 years wandering.

But as Moshe regains his composure,  he angrily asks them something the Roshei Yeshiva would like to remove from the Torah:

האחיכם יבאו למלחמה ואתם תשבו פה

"Shall your brothers go out to war while you remain here?"

See the Orach Hachyim Hakodosh who states:

אמת כי ה' הוא הנלחם להם, אבל על כל פנים צריכין להזדמן במלחמה

"It is true that Hashem is the one who does the battle, but you still have to be prepared for war"

Question: Why didn't Bnei Gad and Bnei Reuvein simply tell Moshe , that "we will learn Torah and as you know that Torah is matzil?" "Our learning is on the same level as those going to war, and our words of Torah will be the missiles and we are on the same plane as those putting their lives on the front" 

They knew that this was a cockamamie excuse so they said " we will in fact fight with the IDF and then after the entire country is conquered will return to our families." 

Did Moshe believe them? Apparently not, he made them sign the famous "Bnei Gad and Bnei Reuvein "tnai" a "tnai ka'ful" 

In Moshe's army, learning in kolel or in Bais Medrish was not an exemption to get out of army service, So I'm sure you have been coached to respond to this that in Moshe's army, the troops were all tzadikkim. I agree, they were all tzadikkim, so my suggestion is to open the doors of Ponovitz, Brisk and Mir and draft all those tzaddikim and let's send all the chilonim home. ... Great! 

Today Chareidie leaders have learned nothing from the Torah and nothing from Tnach, and not only that, they are actively discouraging the praising of those ready to give up their lives,!

Mind you, all this while Jewish blood is still pouring on the streets, and he questions whether those fallen are "kedoishim" ... What???? 

Such disconnect from the Jewish people and Jewish values. Even Hashem says:

עמו אנכי בצרה

Is it any wonder then, that a Rosh Yeshiva and an Av Bais Din who gave shiurim in the MIr compares Jewish soldiers to garbage cleaners? 

And to which journalists is he addressing this to? Haaretz? Jerusalem Post? Israel Hayom? 

Naaa! 

He is addressing this to the journalists of the Yated!

Very sick indeed! 

Rabbis of the Edah HaChareidis, a conservative haredi organization with anti-Zionist views, published a strongly worded letter yesterday against haredi journalists they believe to be promoting nationalism. The Rabbis were led by Rabbi Moshe Sternbuch, a member of the organization's rabbinical court.

“It has become known in our communities and throughout Israel that a great error is present in the press who presume to call themselves haredi while spreading false opinions which are far from our ways,” the letter begins.

They criticized the way that haredi journalists are praising soldiers and casualties of the war, calling them "far from the ways of Old Israel."

“Especially at a time like this, when the spirit of nationalism is consuming the camp on every side, and many are pulled into false beliefs coming from scribes that are far from the ways of Old Israel, among them those who promote enlistment of men and women which is absolutely forbidden and has never even been considered to be permitted.”

“Let all mourners mourn the fall of the reinforced dividing wall that has existed since ancient times, and the one thing equal to all such publications and journalists is that they tend to spread and cause damage, and it is your responsibility to guard them.”

The Rabbis call for such publications not to be brought home. “These are not the portion of Israel, and indeed, the greatest men of previous generations have already warned and sounded an alarm in the gates of the masses against such publications, and we do not encourage everyone to check that each man of Israel supervises himself and his family against stumbling over these unfit publications, and someone who protects his soul will stay far from them, not buying them and not bringing home those that are distributed free of charge.”

“In a completely and diametrically opposed manner, it is obligatory that every man and his household and descendants bring the spirit of holiness and simple belief and trust in God into his house, to distance false beliefs and trust in mortals, and as the ancient parable stated by the prophet said: ‘wickedness will emerge from the wicked.’ And let us increase prayer to the Salvation of Israel in matters both public and private.”

22 comments:

Anonymous said...

They say that Rav Moshe Sternbuch predicted the massacre / war, as well as other rabonim? If they are able to predict, shouldn't we value what those rabonim, like Rav Moshe Sternbuch have to say further? (note, I haven't seen the Rabbis of the Eida Chareidis letter posted, did Rav Moshe Sternbuch sign on it?)

Rav Moshe Sternbuch on the parsha: https://www.kolhalashon.com/new/Media/PlayShiur.aspx?FileName=37260012&Lang=Hebrew

צריך לדעת שכל זמן שאנשים תולים את ההצלחה והישועה ב”כוחי ועוצם
ידי” או באומות העולם וכדו’, הרי זה מעכב את הגאולה העתידה, ורק ברגע
שנגיע להכרה שאין לנו על מי להישען אלא על אבינו שבשמים נזכה לגאולה,

Also, the gedolim understand from Rav Chaim Vital zt'l, (Eitz HaDaat Tov, Tehillim 124) - that we are in the final stage of Gog and Magog, and derech hateva this war against Yishmael cannot be won militarily, so our salvation is going to be only when the Jewish nation will realize that there is nothing to rely on except Hashem. No other power or military will save us, and klal yisrael will do teshuva and we all cry out to Hashem, Hashem is going to intercede and we are going to see miracles that will make Kiryat Yam Suf like child's play.

Also see:

https://www.kikar.co.il/yeshiva-world/s2aqxc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHxf8fuOHog

https://twitter.com/FrumTikTok/status/1719736647053410361

Plus, there is a video from Rav Dov Landau, the Rosh Yeshiva of Slabodka in Bnei Brak: https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/2246156/watch-harav-landau-and-the-idf-officer-who-insisted-bochurim-must-be-drafted.html

Anonymous said...

But the ma'apilim (a term later appropriately co-opted by..early Zionists)also wanted to go fight
Moshe told them they are wrong

Garnel Ironheart said...

If this is the way of Israel, I want out. I would rather the way of common decency.

Cohen Y said...

That option was withdrawn.
b'charbo schelucha emloch aleichem

Dusiznies said...

6:36
You are bringing me Rav Moshe Shternbach who you say predicted it which means absolutely zero as secular journalists also predicted it, if you followed my blog, you would have seen even two years ago on this very blog those predictions.
Besides we didn't need R' Moshe Shternbuch and "other rabbanim" predictions as Hamas itself told it to us be'feirish many times, we just didnt believe them.

So with your "farkakte" severah that "If they are able to predict, shouldn't we value what those rabonim, like Rav Moshe Sternbuch have to say further?"
No actually, so I should listen to Daniel Pipes a Christian who predicted this three years ago?? What crazed logic!

No one knows anything about Gog and Magog even Rav Chaim Vital zt'l...yes even he didn't know as he said and you quote him that "we are now in the final stages" and he wrote that over 400 years ago. So how long is the "final stages" its now close to 500 years and Nada!! I remember growing up when the Gedoilim at that time said it was WW2 ...No one knows..
With all due respect to Harav Landau and I know him quite well, I don't agree with him and neither would Moshe Rabbeinu, Yehoshua, Devorah Hanevuah. Shaul and Dovid Hamelech the Chashmonaim and Rebbe Akiva all who required everyone to be drafted and learning wasn't an exemption!

&:27
I don't know what the "ma'apilim wanted and there are many meforshim who question who the ma'apilim actually were. But if Moshe didn't want them, we wouldn't want them either, so are you saying we should draft the Ponovitz and the Mir guys because they certainly were not ma'apilim? Is that what you are saying, because if that is what you are saying I agree with you 100%



Anonymous said...

Which secular journalist predicted that the war would break out exactly on Shemini Atzeres?

I would also love to disagree with Rav Moshe Sternbuch and Rav Landau (and I do personally strongly disagree and extremely upset on certain things that Rav Sternbuch has paskened to be assur) - but who am I to even voice an opinion, my knowledge is a trillion times less than Rav Sternbuch or Rav Landau. Don't we have to be on the same level of Torah knowledge to argue with them? Plus, they have thousands of talmidim, many of their talmidim themselves are famous rabonim and rosh yeshivas. And they wrote dozens of seforim?

Dusiznies said...

9:21
First of all Rav Shernbuch never predicted that a massacre and hostage-taking would occur on Shemini Azeres, that is a bald-faced lie. There isn't one single recording or Kol korah PRIOR to OCt 7 of Rav Shernbach predicting anything, besides Rav Shernbach himself has said many times that "he is not a navie nor a son of a Navie. Yes, people are now repeating this nonsensical prediction AFTER the fact .
Let him give me Friday's winning Lottery numbers!

As far as not arguing with these "greats" that's nonsense. I don't have to listen to him or Rav Landau as they are not my rabbanim. I can guarantee that Ger, Bobov, viznitz, sadigere, Erlo or Belz do not listen to what Rab Shternbach or Rav Landau have to say. Every community has there own spiritual rabbanim. Writing Sefarim does not a Talmud Chacham make, I personally know many ama-ratzim that wrote sefarim, I am not minimizing Rav Shternbuch and Rav Landaus's sefarim but your argument is flawed.
Just because they have talmidim who are famous rabbanim and roshei Yeshiva does not make them my poseik.
I have my poseik and I refer my opinions to huge talmeidei Chachamim.
By the way ... half of the Eida Chareidie hates Rav Shternbuch's guts and are mevazeh him all the time, I have written about this in the past. In fact when he visited Williamsburg a couple of years, satmar Chassidim almost killed him . He was assaulted here in Israel by members of the Eida... So if the Eida themselves don't listen to him, why should I?

Dr Phil ,Esquire, Petach Tikvah said...

9:21
I don't get it, you think that we should follow someone's psak that writes a letter that we shouldn't respect Jewish soldiers who are dying for us? Are you insane?? What perverted thinking.

Frum but normal said...

This is exactly what CHAZAL a had in mind when they said “ KOL TALMID CHACHAM SH’AIN BOI DAAS,NEVAILAH SERUCHA TOIV MIMENO.
Any talmid chacham who has NO BRAINS, a stinking animal Caracas is worth more than him.
Something is very rotten in CHAREIDI society when we have criminaly insane so called leaders like Sternbuch and that other MESHUGENER RASHA Rabbi Schreiber, who vomited out the obscenity “that there is no need to express gratitude to our young boys fighting in Gaza any more than to those Arabs cleaning the streets.

GEVALD! comparing this RASHA MERUSHA to a rabies infected sewer rat, would be an insult to all rats

Uriah’s Wife said...

@ Anonymous 6:36

“…cannot be won militarily, so our salvation is going to be only when the Jewish nation will realize that there is nothing to rely on except Hashem…”

Yeah, like your salvation emanated from Hashem’s compassion and kindness in the conflagrations of Churban bayit rishon, Churban bayit shaynee, the Spanish Inquisition and the murder of the 6 million in WWII. What makes you think that salvation will come from Hashem this time? Wishful magical thinking at its worst puts every Israeli’s life in awful jeopardy.
You’re an idiot.

Anonymous said...

Dr Phil, I never said that. I said that the rabonim who themselves predicted the massacre / war - we should listen to what they have to say further.

The blog author didn't post the letter, so I do not see any proof that Rav Moshe Sternbuch wrote it or signed on it.

Dusiznies said...

10:32
This letter was publicized and the secular media published it, to date Rav Shternbuch has not said that he didn't say it . it was also printed in a chareidie newsletter called "Chadash" which is where I saw it.
Your response is typical of the naive Yeshiviha sheep, when they hear this crazy stuff from the rabbis that they look up to, they say "well I have not seen it?"

Tell me why would someone make this up?

Anonymous said...

If you are going to write a blog post about something, why can't you at least include a link to the source or post an image of it?

Two wrongs do not make a right. Yes there meshuguyim in Satmar, and in the Eida Chareidis, and they are those who are upset about the psak about the kevarim, but which gadol is mezaveh Rav Sternbuch?

Also, Rav Sternbuch's seforim - how many tens of thousands of copies of his dozens of seforim found all over Eretz Yisrael, US, Europe, South Africa, and Australia. You do not see shaylos and teshuvos of an am haaretz in the bote-medroshim all over the world?

Here are videos of when Rav Sternbuch went to NY and spoke by the Satmar asifa:

https://youtu.be/RiybIfnSIhY
https://youtu.be/t2cH0N7FhMc

How many times did IDF turn Gaza into a rubble, Operation Cast Lead in 2008 (over three weeks), Operation Protective Edge (50 days 2014)

How many times did the IDF get warnings of what Hamas was planning? Extensive documentation was prepared with great detail of what Hamas was planning, and the IDF elite dismissed all the reports, and threatened those under them that they will fire them if they submit another negative report.

The army superiors themselves were disrespecting the soldiers under them - and now we are on day 75 of the war, with no end in sight.

https://www.jns.org/aharon-haliva-has-got-to-go-now/

The Palestinians, from the day they are born - they are indoctrinated that their only mission in life is to kill the Jews. The first verse they learn is “Khaybar Khaybar, ya yahud", as by us it's "Torah Tziva lanu Moshe, morasha kehillas Yaakov".

The only way Israel can physically win the war is to exterminate them all -- the entire Arab population in Gaza, West Bank, and East Jerusalem, etc, but the IDF is definitely not going to do this. Therefore, we have nothing to rely on except Hashem. Israel has been spending decades assassinating Hamas militants and their leaders, and all you see, it's a Hydra Monster. They all deserve to be wiped out 100%. But, each Haman the IDF kills, they just regenerate with dozen more heads, and it's an endless vicious cycle r'l.

Look at Ukraine, how many hundreds of billions of military aid was poured in by the West, and despite hundreds of thousands of soldiers killed on both sides, Ukraine is nowhere winning the war. The West has now lost interest in Ukraine, and Russia is eventually going to win as Russia's population is about four times Ukraine's.

Now the Ukrainians are also reshayim, I am just trying to make an analogy, as Israel is surrounded by about 450 million Muslims, and how many hundreds of thousands of missiles and drones are there in Lebanon, Syria, Iran, etc? Plus, Russia has aligned itself with Hamas in the war against Israel.

And the gedolei hador already wrote many hundred years ago that the Kaiser of Moscow is going to invade Kyiv, and all that is going to transpire prior to the geulah.

Any time I see an image or think of the hostages, or see the news reports of our soldiers getting killed or injured I break out in tears. I already saw too many funerals, it's already too much to bear. Too much Jewish blood has already been shed. Gedolei hador like Rav Moshe Sternbuch, foresee what is going to happen in the future.

איזהו חכם הרואה את הנולד

Rachmuna Latzlan, how many soldiers have we already lost hy'd, how many almonos, and yesomim, and how many severely seriously injured? How many more have to die r'l till we realize that kochi v'otzem yodi is not our salvation?

Dusiznies said...

12:11
I let you rant and rave and I can refute every one of your Yshivishe narishkeiten!
This letter was sent to the Yated and other Hareidie publications and it was widely reported in the Israeli press.. here is one link

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/flashes/622162

Rav Shernbuch has not said that he didn't write it.

Rav Shternbuch is a radical extremist and people like you should know what he said and what he continues to say at this time as I am typing these words.
He holds proudly that no one should praise or give thanks to any IDF soldier. No one except you denies this.
I don't care how many sayings you are going to bombard us with, the bottom line is that Rav Shturnbuch is out of touch with reality and needs to retire, as more than half of the Eida Chareidie oilom hates his guts because to them he is not radical enough. We have written about this many times, his very own people do not listen to him. He is a poisik for you and his own immediate family.. that is it.
You link to the Satmar asifa but you deliberately left out the riots that occurred while he was speaking and the riots outside from the Satmar kehilla that wanted to kill him ...he had to leave Williamsburg the same day as they couldn't guarantee his safety.

Anonymous said...

Find it, take a look: https://www.jdn.co.il/j_world/2102133/

Anonymous said...

You are a sicko and a complete kofer for belittling Talmidei chachamim because they don't agree with your sick Zionost views.
Every child knows that in that very same parsha of Tziklag it says clearly: And David strengthened his faith in HASHEM. Not his army's strength.(see radak and all other meforshim)
Your a complete fool
You don't reach Rav Shternbuchs toenails.


Dusiznies said...

3:59
Not only are you a bald-faced liar stating that Harav Shternbuch predicted that the massacre would happen exactly on Simchas Torah prior to Oct 7. you are also a huge Am Haaretz
The pasuk indeed states: ןיתחזק דוד בה' אלוקיו
But the Radak completely agrees with my post, the Radack states that the meaning that "David strengthened his faith in Hashem," means simply that he finally turned to the Urim Ve'tumim and instructed the Kohen to ask, whether he should go to war. In fact that's what the Tarעum Yonasan also says
ואתקף דוד במימרא דה' אלהי'
"Dovid held onto the words of Hashem meaning the words of the Urim that instructed him to go to war.
Your interpretation of the pasuk is not only wrong but childish because according to your stupid pshat we wouldn't need the Radack or the Targum, the Radack comes to explain that Dovid went to "inquire from Hashem" that is the true meaning of the pasuk in line with my post.
Rav Shternbuch by writing this nasty and uncaring letter in reference to the soldiers in a time of war shows that he is completely disconnected with the Jewish people and has no empathy and this is a huge Chillul Hashem
and במקום שיש חילול ה' אין חולקין כבוד לרב

Gedalye Leibowitz Esq said...

3:59
The story in Tanach clearly states that Dovid Hamelech inquired from the Urim Ve'Tumim whether he should go to war, and thats what he did. He didn't say any Tehillim, he didn't tell the people to be mechazeik in Torah, he told them to go to war. The pasuk simply states that Dovid after panicking and crying decided to turn to Hashem the Urim Ve'Tumim that's the way all interpret this pasuk.

Brisker Payois said...

It all breaks down to this, Rav Shernbuchs diatribe against Jewish Soldiers serving the Jewish people does not come from love it comes from hate. I cannot believe that a man who was so immersed in Torah can utter such a vile attack on those willing to put their very lives on the line, I am disgusted!

Frum but normal said...

In defense of so called Rabbi Sternbuch, he is over 90 and suffers from dementia, therefore it’s best to ignore him.

But that other filthy rabies infected sewer rat calling himself Schreiber, needs to be fumigated and run out of town, or better yet deport him to his terrorist friends in Gaza

Anonymous said...

It's a shame they had to ask the urim vetumim, they could have asked the bloggers from that generation if they should go to war.



Anonymous said...

Who would join a military for defence that can't that is incompetent in their offence