Before I comment on the article below I want to let you guys know that in Israel having over 100,000 Avrachim learning in Kollel, is not sustainable, not for the families of the Avrachim and not for the State. The Avrachim have an average of 8 children, bli ayin hara, and even though they all get government subsidies, they cannot make it financially. There isn't enough income to generate savings to make weddings or other simchas or to buy them diras!
Their wives work, true, but most of them work as teachers, or assistant teachers in the Bais Yaakovs and make a pittance, ask MK Minister Goldknaupf, the Gerer Chasid who is presently the Minister of Housing. When he ran the Bais Yaakovs in Bnei Brak, he made sure to fire the Teachers right before they became eligible for benefits.
Article:
It was recently announced that a new yeshiva will be opening in Beit Shemesh headed by Rabbi Dovid Leibel which will incorporate secular studies outside the yeshiva in an Open University format.
On Monday, Rabbi Dov Landau, who currently heads the Council Of Torah Sages, wrote a sharp letter criticizing the initiative. The letter was published in Yated Neeman and signed by all of the members of the council except for Rabbi Baruch Mordechai Ezrachi, who is currently hospitalized in serious condition with respiratory problems.
DIN: Let's not forget that for years, The Yated's prime and distinguished writer was none other than the author of Kid's speak, Chaim Walder, the sexual predator and rapist who broke up countless families. Chaim Walder was also the founder and director of the Child and Family Center of Bnei Brak, and performed all kinds of Torah prohibitions under the noses of Rabbanim such as Rav Landau and his late father. The paragraph hints that the only reason Harav Ezrachi (who Should have a Refuah Shleimah) didn't sign the letter was because he "is currently hospitalized.
Interesting, that both Rav Ezrachi & Rav Zilberstein would sign a letter against a Yeshiva incorporating secular studies, since they made it their business to address The Agudah Yarchei Kallah in Yerushalayim in 2022 to an audience of Baalei Batim of whom 90% graduated college, and of whom 100% attended Yeshivas with secular studies!
Rabbi Landau heard about the initiative during a trip to the US from a Rosh Yeshiva who explained to him the details and warned of the dangers in establishing such an institution.
DIN: Who was the Rosh Yeshiva? What is his name?
I'm wondering if this "Rosh Yeshiva" himself attended a Yeshiva that had secular studies?
All Litvishe Yeshivas in the USA have secular studies in their curriculum and most have their students take the regents! Why would a US Rosh Yeshiva who most probably attended a Yeshiva with secular studies and has his own children in a Yeshiva that has secular studies, put his nose in Israeli Chareidie education?
Rabbi Landau requested that his letter be signed by the other Gedolim and published in Yated Neeman.
DIN: He will no doubt find "other Gedolim" who are worried that Avreichim will finally come to their senses and start learning a trade and leave them. R' Landau wants it published in the "Yated" the paper of the notorious pervert!
The letter was co-signed by Rabbi Meir Zvi Bergman, Rabbi Baruch Dov Povarski, Rabbi Moshe Hillel Hirsch, Rabbi Yitzchak Zilberstein and Rabbi Zvi Drabkin.
The letter states that “Torah study has always been clean and unsullied by any trace of mixing with other disciplines, and our rabbis devoted themselves and fought holy wars against any plans to mix even the slightest amount of other studies within the walls of the Torah fortresses and holy yeshivos.
DIN: Having secular studies in a Torah environment is something "not clean and sullied?"
Rabbi Landau with all due respect, Yeshiva Torah Vadaas, Yeshiva Chaim Berlin, Yeshiva Mir, Yeshiva Chasan Sofer, Veener, Ger, Stolin, Bobov, Tzelem, and yes even Satmar all have secular studies in their curriculum. These Yeshivas were headed by the greatest Gedoilim of the 20th century including Rav Moshe Feinstein, R' Yaakov Kaminetzki, Mattesdorfer Rav, Tzelemer Rav and R' Gedalyeh Schorr etc. etc.
“However we have now heard that people are planning to establish an institution called a yeshiva gedolah which mixes the holy and the profane, Heaven forfend, in the city of Beit Shemesh.
DIN: Excuse me... did they just write "that people are planning?" Who are those "people?" Rav Rabbi Dovid Leibel, the president of the Achvas Torah communities, is just "people?" So he isn't a "gadol" because he disagrees?
Most people in Ramat Beit Shemesh where they are planning this Yeshiva are Anglos, who want this Yeshiva for their children, to make it possible that their children become financially independent and would be able to support their wives as promised in the kesuba, they don't want to come to the US to schnoor because they're children cannot make it financially.
Kol Ha'Kovod to these parents.
By the way, these parents are Bnei-Torah, who sacrificed to make Aliya, run to shiurim, and set up massive Chesed Organizations. They moved to Beit Shemesh, not to Bnei Brak, because this is exactly what they want for the children!
“It is our duty to warn against this and to raise a huge storm to alert the Yere’ei Hashem wherever they are that they should not send their children and disciples to this place or give them any support G-d forbid.
DIN: "G-d forbid????" "Alert the Yere'ei Hashem?" ????????
Did you "alert the community" of Bnei Brak when a Chareidie harbored knowingly an illegal Arab and his brother in his home, that turned out to be a terrorist that stabbed his neighbor an avreich.?
Did you "alert the community" the "Yer'ei Hashem" when Chaim Walder was sleeping and raping married women of your community?
This little fact was known by the Bais Din of Bnei-Brak for 5 years before the community was "alerted." One of those women went public and stated that she took the sex-fiend Walder to Bais Din in Bnei-Brak, five years prior, and that the Bais Din ruled that she must leave her husband but refused to notify Walder's wife, the woman subsequently learned of 4 other woman in the exact same circumstances. And even when the facts came out, most of the Litvishe Gedoilim said it was "Loshon Hara" to expose him.
Are we living on different planets?
If you don't want to send your children to this school , then great, but to announce in the "Yated Pervert Paper"that people should "not support" them is a chillul Hashem, and is actually going against countless Gemarras that not only advocate work, advocate a trade but in fact state that working in Israel and learning a trade is a parent obligation!
“Happy is he who can uproot this scourge before it begins, and will keep the House of Israel faithful to Hashem and his Torah free of any aspects of this iniquitous culture, remaining sanctified to Torah study, keeping Mitzvos and following the Torah path.”
DIN: Happy is the one who can learn a trade, support his family in comfort, and still keep up with learning Torah "be'naachas ube'kavod"
A Kiddush Hashem would be to support this new Yeshiva Gedoileh headed by an outstanding Talmud Chachem and a prominent leader of a great community!
18 comments:
A person has to be very careful when writing or speaking against a gadol byisroel.
It seems to be the issue is with having secular education in the yeshiva system .
He is not against those who want to get a career
May hashem bless you and protect you
"Rabbanim such as Rav Landau and his late father"
I think you are mixing up the Habad rabbis of Bnei Brak with the Rosh Yeshiva Rav Landau. Apples and oranges. Separate and different.
You have mixed up two diffrent people
Hey FYI guy, the rosh yeshiva Rav Landau is also a Chabadsker despite that he is cousin of R' Moshe Hillel Hirsch
6:29
I am pretty new to this blog but I see that DIN takes his cue from the Gedoilim, when Rav Landau Shlita writes a letter, a nasty one at that, condemning another Gadol who he disagrees with, and asks people to "not support"that Torah Institution, he leaves himself up to ridicule and scorn. We here in Beit Shemesh have our Rabbanim and our Gedoilim, who by-in-large have approved this Institution. For an outside Rav to have discussed this with a mysterious Rosh Yeshiva from Chutz Le'aaretz, and to rule based on this outside discussion is a chutzpah shein kamohu.
To my knowledge Rav Landau did not call Harav Dovid Leibel shlita to discuss this before he issued this Kol Korah.
And don't blame DIN he is just reporting what has already been discussed on "The Beit Shemesh Chadoshot" Chat. Most commentators and comments are supporting Rav Leibel, and are wondering "what business is Beit Shemesh to Rav Ladau that he is injecting himself into this local matter?
If we don't protest this now strongly we are going to lose our youth.
Thank G-d for Blogs, who expose these shenanigans.
I understand that the author of this blog lives in Beit Shemesh, hence this post!
This is where I have a very hard time with emunas chachamim and daas Torah. If a gadol is so cushioned, surrounded by askanim who feed him what they want him to hear, and he has no ability or willingness to do the due diligence and find out what’s really going on in the real world, how am I meant to trust his judgment when he is so out of touch with what’s unfortunately transpiring in the chareidi community???
No one in the frum community is trying to force the mainstream chareidi institutions to change their curriculum and their way of learning. Do these gedolim not know how many boys are off the derech, having been burnt out by the system, having no motivation to learn and feeling no connection to the frum way of life? Do they have any idea how many boys are on the streets because they either left or were kicked out of the mainstream system and have nowhere to learn?
Is it better that all these boys go to totally secular universities and colleges? Do we rather these boys hang out in town, turn to drugs, alcohol, girls and what not because of a total lack of institutions catered to their needs????
Is it better that these boys get married to unsuspecting girls and then either go OTD together or get divorced???
Such a lack of foresight and understanding of what this generation needs by the gedolim who are purportedly meant to lead us is going to be our destruction.
We are in very troubled times, in reverse to what we experienced during the Spanish inquisition. Then the Jews dressed like goyim and acted like Jews. Now so many of today’s generation dress like Jews but have no connection to Torah and mitzvos.
We are facing a spiritual holocaust and no one seems to care
6:29
"He is not against those who want to get a career"
What the "H" does that even mean, if you cannot write or read or add, then you don't have a career. When they say secular subjects they mean, English, to speak it and to have basic reading and comprehension in Israel.
Belz has already instituted this for the new Zman, but Rav Landau wouldn't dare criticize Belz!
9:32
I didn't mix anything up
9:38 PM "Hey FYI guy, the rosh yeshiva Rav Landau is also a Chabadsker despite that he is cousin of R' Moshe Hillel Hirsch"
He is not a Lubavitcher, ch"v, have you lost your mind? He is a RY of Slabodka yeshiva in Bnei Brak.
What absurdity will you claim next? That Rav Gershon Edelstein z"l was a Lubavitcher?
I’m sorry, DIN, but you’re way off base here. The letter he wrote is the standard boilerplate kind of letter that Rosh Yeshiva types have been writing for decades and decades. They have never liked having the word ‘Yeshiva’ and ‘college’ linked together. You may disagree with this viewpoint, but it is pretty ho-hum and not new in any way. The guy is now filling the ‘Gadol haDor’ position, so it devolves to him to write these sort of things. I don’t know why you got so worked up about it - it’s old stuff. Additionally, attacking him bc the letter appeared in the Yated - ‘the paper of Walder’ - also seems a little strident. Walder was evil. I’m not sure that make the paper as evil as him, and it certainly has nothing to do with Landau. I would ask you to give Landau a little slack until such time as we can see how he handles. He famously criticized Rabbi Shach years ago for creating Haredi political parties, a view that has in many ways been vindicated down the road.
Please enlighten me Mr DIN,
Who was R’Dov Landau’s father? Excuse my ignorance.
12:2
This is actually NOT a "standard" letter" I have been around the block many times and read Kol Koras every day.
The Yated is as evil as Walder we have information that the paper knew all along that Walder was an evil mamzer committing rape and adultery over 5 years before the crap hit the fan, and they were warned but refused to fire him, G-d only knows why.
Just that you know that filling in as the "Gadol Hador" does not a "Godol Hador" make even though I know that he is a very decent man and a tzaddik, know that by Chassidim he is not their "Godol Hador" by Sfardim he is not the "Godol Hador" by the Datim he is not their "Godol Hador". He is the"Godol Hador by a minority of a minority the "litvishe" oilim and even by the Litvishe there is a huge segment that did not accept him as the "Godol Hador".
The reason that this particular letter made headlines in the frum communities is because he wrote that people should "Not Support" a Yeshiva in Bet Shemesh, being set up by a respected Talmud Chacham and R' Landau admits that he took advice from a US Rosh Yeshiva who he won't name.
I have a huge amount of respect for the work you do. And I agree that he is not the ‘Gadol haDor’ of everyone. Still, this stuff has been going on for a while. Plenty of distinguished rabbis have done stuff like this and been criticized. As you said, he’s a pretty nice guy. Let’s see how he handles. I just don’t think this one thing is really indicative of anything unusual. YU was harshly attacked for years in the U.S. - and they had Rabbi Siloveitchik who was an absolute tzadik and genius and they pilloried him. Now you don’t hear much anymore - and there’s Touro and all the rest. Seems like they’re trying to prevent it from surfacing to EY.
8:43
I'm from Maalei Adumim so I don't have a dog in this fight, but I am sick and tired of people defending extremists such as the author of this Kol Korah. Why is it ok to disparage a known Talmud Chacham such as Harav Dovid Leibel yet not ok to criticize Rav Landau?
Why is it ok for the "Godol Hador" to write a nasty letter in a partisan newspaper disparaging a Yeshiva with secular studies?
Oh! he doesn't want it to "surface in Israel" then let him move to Ramallah or Gaza. In Israel all residents should have the right to have their children educated in their own ways.
Interestingly,,Rav Landau did in fact criticize Belz for doing the exact same thing, but the Belzer gave instructions to Rav Landau and his cohorts to stop or they will retaliate, and so he backed off Belz. R Landau thinks that now he found a meek patsy rabbi like Rav Leibel, but the residents of Beit Shemesh are supporting this Yeshiva and they will fight back. My Prediction? This will not end well thanks to the "Godol Hador!"
Unfortunately the Gedoilim in history were many times on the wrong side . They were the Meraglim, They were on the side of Korach, and now Inyanei De'Yoimie they stood by and said not a word when they threw out Bar Kamtza causing the destruction of the Bais Hamikdash.
According to the Yaavitz it was the Gedoilim that caved during the inquisition, the "pusheter yid" the yid with "amuna peshuta" allowed themselves to be killed rather than convert!
During the times of Shabsai Tzvi, Gedoilim backed him, some to the very bitter end leading their flocks to total disaster.
Let us be careful when "others""Litvishe others" appoint their "Gadol Hador" we should not take them seriously, but when they get involved in matters outside their city in this case Bnei Brak and publish letters in a newspaper that is exclusive to the Litvishe community and disparage other rabbanim such as R' Dovid, then we should pull out all the stops and fight them otherwise we will consumed in their fires.. G-d forbid!
Guys I have a simple test that I do when I read a Kol Korah
I read it and I say to myself
"is this going to bring or promote שלום? Is this going to bring peace?
or
is it going to bring שנאה hate?
So do the test and you will never go wrong!
It’s not a question of ‘ok’. It’s just what they have been doing forever. They fought secular studies everywhere - in Volozhin, in Israel in the 1920’s, everywhere. Anyone who deviated from the ‘Torah study only’ approach in a Yeshiva setting has been criticized. You can disagree, but it’s just SOP.
+1
Took the words out of my mouth, Deff wrote it better as well.
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