Wednesday, January 10, 2018

Satmar Perfidy (Part 2)

Part 2

Finally the truth about the conduct of the Satmar Rebbe, Rabbi Yoel Teitelbaum and his followers during and after the Holocaust! 

This is the second of a two-part investigation into the life of the Satmar Rebbe. Read part one here.
During his stay in the Cluj ghetto, Rabbi Yoel Teitelbaum hid rather than position himself as a leader. 
On the rescue train, he avoided the other passengers, failed to encourage or to comfort them, and did not share the precious commodities provided by his followers with them. In Bergen-Belsen, too, despite the preferential treatment accorded him in the camp, he refrained from assuming a leadership role, even among the observant inmates. After his release, Rabbi Yoel elected to run a rescue campaign from the safety of Switzerland. His efforts to rescue Jewish children raised by gentiles were restricted to fundraising, and even in that task he failed abysmally. Once again, his conduct stands in stark contrast to that of other rabbis, who returned to their hometowns to lead their surviving flocks or worked relentlessly in the DP camps. All the sources describing the rescue activities of the Haredi community during the Holocaust, including archival sources, indicate that compared to other rabbis who survived the Holocaust, Rabbi Yoel’s contribution was negligible in both scope and significance.
After the Holocaust, Rabbi Yoel also turned his back on all those who had helped to rescue him. After settling in Palestine in 1946, he refrained from expressing any gratitude to the people and institutions that had been instrumental in his rescue and had endeavored to obtain certificates for him, among them Chief Rabbi Yitzhak Herzog, Agudath Israel leaders Rabbi Yitzhak Meir Levin and Rabbi Moshe Porush, and Ha-Mizrahi’s Rabbi Joseph Yitzhak Rotenberg. He scathingly attacked the institutions they headed and, unlike other Hasidic rebbes they helped rescue, refused to make even the slightest symbolic gesture of gratitude. Moreover, it seems he repudiated his benefactors on a personal level, too. As far as we know, Rabbi Yoel never sent any letters of gratitude or appreciation to any of the people or institutions involved in his rescue.

Once settled in the United States, he spurned most of those who sought to assist him there, as well. He criticized Agudath Israel and the Union of Orthodox Rabbis of the United States and Canada, whose leaders had headed the Rescue Committee that endeavored to rescue the Hungarian Jews, including him. He treated Rabbi Elimelekh (Mike) Tress (1909–1967), leader of Tseirei Agudath Israel (the youth division of the Agudath Israel), and Rabbi Abraham Kalmanovich (1891–1964) somewhat more kindly, but then he ignored them when he no longer needed their assistance. When asked to testify on Kasztner’s behalf during his trial, Rabbi Yoel, whose inclusion on the Kasztner train was raised during the proceedings, refused. Thus, Rabbi Yoel repaid with ingratitude even the man whose name became most closely associated with his rescue from the extermination camps.
Criticism concerning his flawed conduct hounded Rabbi Yoel during the Holocaust and persisted thereafter. Therefore, Rabbi Yoel found himself compelled to explain, to himself possibly as well as to others, his objection to emigration to the United States and Palestine, his flight from the town of Satmar, and his participation in the Zionist Kasztner transport. His views on the Holocaust were never consolidated into a single contemplative text but rather were recorded in many of his works. The following are some examples:
• The Holocaust is God’s punishment of the Jewish people for its sins, and primarily for the sin of Zionism. The Zionist concept implied a denial of God’s ability to deliver his people and disrupted the natural place of the people of Israel, destined to remain exiled until the true deliverance.
• Zionism’s ultimate, undeclared goal was the spiritual annihilation of the people of Israel. Therefore, collaboration with those trying to cause the people of Israel to sin, that is, Zionist institutions, is strictly forbidden, even under threat of death.
• Zionists are the descendants of the Erev Rav (mixed multitude) and the Amalekites, so it is no wonder that they have caused the people of Israel such trouble.
• Any collaborators with Zionism, even the religious members of Ha-Mizrahi and Agudath Israel are also guilty of its sins. Therefore, the Zionist and the Haredi rabbis also bear part of the blame for the Holocaust.
• The Zionists bear the blame for the Holocaust not only because of their ideological concept, but also because of their actions, which included:
provoking Hitler and causing him to take revenge upon the people of Israel, obstructing emigration to other countries so as to force Jews to settle in Palestine, and the closure of their borders to immigrants following the demand to establish a Jewish state. Particular blame falls on the Zionists for deliberately preventing the Haredim from immigrating and thus saving themselves.
• The sin of Zionism was so grave that even its bitter opponents, Rabbi Yoel’s anti-Zionist followers were punished for it.
• The Holocaust was part of the redemption process. The Messiah’s advent, destined to occur during its course, was impeded by the Zionists’ actions and the intervention of Satan.
The author of the single, brief biography of Rabbi Yoel written during his lifetime completely ignored the Holocaust period. Several posthumous biographies, authored mostly by his Hasidim, were required to explain the rabbi’s conduct during the Holocaust. The subject was not dealt with in a coherent or deliberate way, and the various authors found different solutions to a number of issues. Over time, the coping modes changed, and in recent years, apologetic attempts to conceal or ignore difficulties have been replaced by a “counter-offensive,” designed to undermine what the authors perceived as “Zionist claims.” The following are some of the modes and claims used in addressing Rabbi Yoel’s decisions and actions during the Holocaust:
• Rabbi Yoel merely opposed organized immigration to Palestine, not the immigration of individuals wishing to lead a Haredi lifestyle. Jewish settlement in Palestine prior to the Holocaust would not have prevented the danger, as the German army was already on its way and only by a miracle never reached it.
• The Zionists took advantage of the dire straits in which the Haredi Jews found themselves, forcing them to join their ranks and thus to corrupt their souls.
• Rabbi Yoel had never sought to flee and abandon his congregation, yet his capture by the Germans would have been disastrous for his followers. He encouraged many to flee the ghettos, and the purpose of his escape was to continue his rescue efforts outside of Hungary.
• Rabbi Yoel was among the initiators of the negotiations with the Germans, and his inclusion on the Kasztner train was the result of a demand made by Haredi leaders, rather than a generous offer by the Zionists.
• The Zionists collaborated with the Germans by failing to publicize the danger threatening the Jews in Hungary. Moreover, they impeded the implementation of rescue plans and discriminated against the Haredi population in the allocation of certificates by making the signed acceptance of Zionism a prerequisite for the granting of certificates.
• The Zionists covered up Haredi rescue initiatives and in particular their role in the rescue of Rabbi Yoel. They accused Rabbi Yoel of opposing settlement in Palestine, although they themselves permitted only selective immigration and blamed the Haredi leadership of endeavoring to save the rabbis alone.
Rabbi Yoel founded his congregation in Williamsburg, New York, shortly before the establishment of the State of Israel. His anti-Zionist attacks and delegitimization of Israel by blaming Zionism for the Holocaust served to consolidate the congregation’s unique identity. Within a few years, it attracted hundreds of Hasidim and became known for its reclusive lifestyle and radical religious views. Unlike other Haredi communities in the United States, Rabbi Yoel supported the Edah Ha-Haredit of Jerusalem, whose institutions were on the verge of bankruptcy after donations from Eastern Europe dried up during the Holocaust. In gratitude, it appointed him its first president and subsequently ga’avad (chief rabbi of its Rabbinical Court). In 1954 he founded the Central Rabbinical Congress of the United States and Canada (Hit’ahdut Ha-Rabanim), uniting rabbis whose religious views were anti-Zionist. In the provocative demonstrations it held in New York and Washington, the organization vilified the State of Israel for “trampling religion” and accused its government of “Nazi” treatment of the Haredi community. Following the publication of Rabbi Yoel’s anti-Zionist polemic books, he emerged as Zionism’s bitterest ideological opponent.
The demonstrations triggered a public discussion of Rabbi Yoel’s conduct during the Holocaust. One of the criticisms leveled against him, both within the Haredi community and in the Israeli press and academic literature, focused on his rescue aboard the “Zionist” Kasztner train. This main argument was that at a time of crisis, with his own life at stake, Rabbi Yoel availed himself of the Zionists’ help to save himself. Historical perspective suggests that Rabbi Yoel warrants even harsher criticism, beyond the issue of his escape on the Kasztner train. Toward the end of his stay in the Cluj ghetto, he probably assumed that he had already lost the majority of his Hasidim. He was not familiar to most of the ghetto’s inmates and had no moral obligation to them. Thus, the issue of his obligation to his congregation was no longer relevant, and the question of whether to save himself by any means possible was irrelevant, both morally and by halakhic ruling. In such circumstances, the halakhic principle of piku‘ah nefesh, the obligation to save a life in jeopardy, as well as his human instinct, left him with no other choice.
Yet the true moral issue regarding Rabbi Yoel’s conduct during the Holocaust pertained to his earlier escape attempts. When he first tried to obtain certificates, he was already aware that the lives of Hungarian Jews were in danger. At that point in time, the question of whether it was permissible, both from a halakhic and an ethical perspective, for a spiritual leader of a large congregation to abandon his flock in its hour of need to save his own life could have been considered sensibly and in a level-headed manner. With the passing of time, and as the danger became ever more palpable, it became easier to make excuses for Rabbi Yoel’s flight.
Another moral issue is presented by the fact that Rabbi Yoel, who forbade emigration to Palestine and all the more so through Zionist organizations, did not apply the same strict prohibition to himself even though his economic and public status enabled him to emigrate to other destinations. Additionally, one cannot help but wonder why Rabbi Yoel did not alert the public about the dangers to which he became privy during the early 1940s. Moreover, he opposed all initiatives to prepare for the imminent danger and failed to set either a practical or moral example to his numerous followers. Another moral issue concerns the fact that despite his fierce opposition to Agudath Israel, even during the Holocaust, he availed himself of the help of the Agudah’s members and supporters. After the Holocaust, ignoring
his moral indebtedness, Rabbi Yoel turned his back on his benefactors of all camps.
The answers to these moral issues cannot be found in the explanations and excuses provided by Rabbi Yoel himself and his Hasidic biographers. Yet during other periods in his life, one can trace clues that may explain his behavior. On previous occasions, such as World War I and during the Goga regime, Rabbi Yoel had abandoned his congregation and moved to a safer area, where he stayed until the danger passed. This conduct corresponds with other accounts that describe him as a fear-ridden, anxious individual. This fearfulness of his manifested itself during the war years, when he refused to cooperate with other rabbis’ and the Central Bureau’s attempts to set fast or prayer days. He likewise refrained from making any clear pronouncements on halakhic matters when he thought doing so could endanger him. Therefore, it appears that his conduct stems, at least in part, from his fearful nature, rather than from any pertinent or halakhic considerations, introduced post-factum to justify this conduct.
Rabbi Yoel’s personality may also serve to explain his treatment of his congregation, closest associates, and saviors. From an early age, his relations with his family were strained. He was angry with his brother for not allotting him a share in the inheritance left by their father, which consisted of the town’s rabbinate, management of the yeshiva, and leadership of the Hasidic court. After his brother’s death, he considered his relatives traitors for not appointing him in his place and choosing his 14-year-old nephew instead. His life circumstances further hardened his character: His parents, brother, first wife, and two of his daughters died before the Holocaust. His wives failed to bear sons and his daughters, grandsons. His rigid, uncompromising character was well reflected in the bitter, relentless campaigns he waged against political opponents, against whom he schemed and whom he slandered both openly and surreptitiously.
Rabbi Yoel’s interpretation of the Holocaust and the accounts of that period of his life in posthumous Hasidic biographies have surrounded his character with numerous excuses and explanations, all of which seek to refute criticisms of him. Upon examination, these arguments, many of which are based on the demonization of both Zionism and Zionists, show that the principal questions remain unanswered: Why did Rabbi Yoel fail to warn his followers before the Holocaust? Why did he try to immigrate to Israel after forbidding his followers to do so? Why did he thwart attempts at cooperation, which could have saved so many lives? Why did he not set a personal example for his Hasidim? Why did he abandon his congregation, incarcerated in ghettos, and flee in the middle of the night? How did he come to abandon his closest friends in the Cluj ghetto? Why did he board the Kasztner train, which was organized by the abhorred Zionists? Having survived, why did he never return to rebuild his congregation in Satmar? Why did he refrain from assisting in the spiritual and religious rehabilitation of the Holocaust survivors in the DP camps? Why did he alienate himself from Agudath Israel and the Zionist organizations that had helped to extricate him from the Nazi horrors? And why did he adopt such radical stances, such as blaming the Holocaust on the Zionists, to justify his actions and decisions during the Holocaust?
Apparently, these questions are fated to remain forever unanswered. Regardless, no postfactum claims and explanations can cover up Rabbi Yoel’s incompetence in leading his community during the early stages of the war, his escape efforts during the Holocaust, and his subsequent failure to assist those who survived it.

This article, the second of a two-part series, is adapted from an essay that appears in Dapim 28:2 (2014), available here, and in Menachem Keren-Kratz’s forthcoming biography, The Satmar Rebbe, Rabbi Yoel Teitelbaum.


Gornisht said...

Maybe it was out of humility.

Anonymous said...

What an insignificance he was.
And the satmar #notacult worship the memory of this little man?

Then he managed to sire two idiots who inherited the same feeble genes he possessed.

These are 'Tzaddikim'???? LOL!!!!!

.....and I'm Cindy Crawford

Abe said...

Anonymous 6:19 PM,

Unfortunately many men, insignificant and noteworthy, have through history have sought our destruction. Hitler was a nothing, an insignificant and unknown mediocre artist who almost annihilated us. Satmar by acts of omission did the same to Hungarian Jews. Today Satmar is not insignificant. They maintain great political power. The Teitelbaums deserve a Misa Meshuna, bimhayra biyamaynu. Along with Khomeini and the leaders of Hezbolah and Hamas. Bimhayra biyamaynu.

AishKodesh said...

Definitely not Amein about what you want to happen to Satmar. But to the thing about the leaders of Hezbolah and Chamas... :)

Anonymous said...

It is easy to criticize someone with an unpopular approach and world view. However if we step back and look at some of the things the Satmer Rebbe was saying and try and analyze the history of the Holocaust in light of some of the things we know now, we might not accept all the "settled" history that has been presented to us. Maybe just maybe the Satmer Rebbe was right about Zionism and the Holocaust both in terms of the spiritual aspects of Zionism and the actual real world repercussions of the movement and it's backers.The argument has been made that a major motivating factor of Hitler's Jew Hatred was his perception that the Balfour declaration was payback to powerful,wealthy,Jewish leaders for helping secure the surrender of Germany during WW1.If this is true, than the Satmer Rebbe has a point when he claimed that Zionism caused the Holocaust. I am not justifying the Holocaust or the evil of the Nazi's. I am simply trying to point out that the Satmer Rebbes posture on these matters was not outlandish when analyzed unemotionally.

Anonymous said...

@@@@@@that a major motivating factor of Hitler's Jew Hatred was his perception that the Balfour declaration was payback to powerful,wealthy,Jewish leaders for helping secure the surrender of Germany during WW1

this is awful lie. No bit of evidence that Hitler thought this,
in fact at first he was open to idea of Jewish deportation to then Palestine and Nazi govt made havarah agreement with Yishuv.
You repeat made up dreck svoros by people and rabbis who hated Zionism and felt guilty that they didn't urge jewish emigration.
How can you sleep at night repeating these wild lies again/

Dusiznies said...

The Satmar Rebbe's posture was in fact "outlandish." Hitler's hatred of Jews was clearly written in his book Mein Kamph, and no where does he discuss the Balfour declaration. In fact throughout all Nazi trials be it at Nuremberg Germany, or at the Eichman Trial did the Balfour Declaration issue come up ...
Your statement that " was payback to powerful,wealthy,Jewish leaders for helping secure the surrender of Germany during WW1" makes absolutely no sense for many reasons .....
#1 The "powerful Jewish leaders were against a state ...
#2 Nowhere does it state anywhere in reference to the Balfour Declaration that it had anything to do with Germany ..
#3 Jews be they powerful or not had nothing to do with any negotiating the surrender of Germany in WW1
Friedrich Ebert surrendered Germany on November 11 1918. He surrendered due to the state Germany was in, what issues there were (political, social and economical issues). German soldiers refused to fight any longer
The Satmar blamed the Zionists because of his own guilt, because of his stubborn refusal to allow his Chassidim to emigrate to Palestine or the USA pre WW2, thereby sealing their fate ...
The Rebbe blamed everyone but himself .......He then managed to secure a seat on the Zionist Train to freedom ....leaving his chassidim to be murdered. When he arrived in Palestine after the war, Rumanian and Satmar survivors shunned him and he had to leave with shame to the USA.
In 1956 the Rebbe predicted that in 20 years there would be no Torah Institutions in Israel ...he repeated this bizarre prediction in 1967 .......

Anonymous said...

The argument could be made that Aysuv hated Yakov because he stole the blessings. The argument could be made that Aysuv Sone leYakov, argument could be made that Romans hated Jews because of the Temple, argument could be made that Inquisition was born because Jews wrote nasty things against Christians, argument could be made that Stalin hated Jews because they were capitalists and lenin was a Jew, the argument could be made that you're a damn fool if you believe Satmir, and im analyzing unemotionally

AishKodesh said...

Nevertheless, DIN, he was still a Gadol. You must admit that -- no matter how much either of us disagree with his Shitah.

Anonymous said...

No - he was NOT a gadol
Gedollim don't run away leaving their own Chassidim to die.
He was a KATRAN...a little man. A coward. A man so inadequate that he hated those that rescued him.
The Teitlebaum gene pool needs a good shot of bleach.
As for his Shitah? Shit -ahhhh.
What about his voyage into comic-books? Vayoal Moshe is a hoot!!
Satmar has grown huge off of this parasite....who they seem to worship.
Why would they worship such a small-minded Kattan?

AishKodesh said...

They don't wirship him, as a matter of fact. That's just a cynical view on things. You really shouldn't use such strong words, by the way, my dear Yid. It isn't good for you.

Anonymous said...

What is wrong with calling a spade a spade.
It's all these equivocations and avoidance that allows the evil-doers to crack on with what they do.

(or you could do things the Chabad way and just lie through your teeth)

AishKodesh said...

@8:21, My dear fellow, I meant that you shouldn't use such bad language. No matter for what.

Anonymous said...

In his book mein kampf hitler referenced the stab In the back surrender of ww1. This stab in the back appears to be a reference to jewish leaders in the ww1 german government.The Balfour declaration was given to members of the Rothchild family.It does not seem like a great stretch to conclude that the British secured the assistance of the Rothchilds in order to orchestrate a German surrender and in exchange granted the Balfour declaration.Even if this did not actually happen,it appears that hitler and many Germans believed it did happen.

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Now can you also discuss the book called Min Hamietzer

Dusiznies said...

I'm impressed that you are a "bokie" in the book written by the murderer of over 6 million Jews ....
It isn't a "great stretch" for people who are sick in the head and twist history to fit their demented view of the State of Israel ....
But for people who have studied the history of WW2 from reliable sources and not Satmar propaganda .. it is indeed a "great stretch."

1:14 & 1:15
We don't deal here in fiction! For that you can read Der Goy, Der Bloteh or The Shturmer!

Anonymous said...

Look, the uncomfortable truth is that the Nazis believed that Jews in the Weimar Republic and Jews who controlled the industries responsible for supplying the German military were responsible for the surrender of Germany in WW1. They believed that it was all part of an international Jewish conspiracy to create a Jewish Homeland in Palestine. They clearly believed that it was a Jewish Zionist conspiracy to help Britain defeat Germany in exchange for the Balfour declaration. Lets assume for a moment that there was no Quid Pro Quo from the British to powerful financiers like the Rothchild's. That does not take away the fact that the Nazis believed there was such a deal. Therefore the Satmer Rebbe had a valid point in blaming the Holocaust on Zionism. He did not make up this claim - the Nazis did. Therefore I do not think it is fair to vilify the Satmer Rebbe because after the fact of WW2 we now have a state of Israel which we may feel proud and happy about.Telling people to shut up and stop questioning the history does not make the history go away.

Anonymous said...

Such twisted logic. it's not farfetched to blame m,atzoh for anti-Semitism since THEY believe we bake with gentile blood. The Balfour declar had nothing to do with anything, Nazis never mentioned it. They DID believe that jews were behind Communism and banking and commerce, and 99.99% of these were not only not Zionists but ANTI ZIONIST. so what the hell are you talking about/

Anonymous said...

It seems Nazi Alfred Rosenberg wrote about is far back as 1922. See below from Wikipedia. The Stab in the back terminology was well known and widespread in Germany,
This is described similarly by William Helmreich and Francis Nicosia. Helmreich noted that: "‘’Der staatsfeindliche Zionismus’’, published in 1922, was Rosenberg’s major contribution to the National Socialist position on Zionism. It represented in part an elaboration on ideas already expressed in articles in the ‘’Volkischer Beobachter’’ and in other published works, notably ‘’Die Spur.’’ The title provides the gist of a thesis that Rosenberg sought to convey to his readers: "The Zionist organization in Germany is nothing more than an organization that pursues a legalized undermining of the German state. He accused German Zionists of having betrayed Germany during the war by supporting Britain’s Balfour Declaration and pro-Zionist policies and charged that they had actively worked for a German defeat and the Versailles settlement to obtain a Jewish National Home in Palestine. He went on to assert that the interests of Zionism were first and foremost those of world Jewry, and by implication the international Jewish conspiracy."[12] which Nicosia described as: "Rosenberg argues that the Jews had planned the Great War in order to secure a state in Palestine. In other words, he suggested that they generated violence and war among the gentiles in order to secure their own, exclusively Jewish, interests. In fact, the title of one of those works, ‘’Der Staatsfeindliche Zionismus’’ (Zionism, the Enemy of the State), published in 1922, conveys the gist of Rosenberg’s approach to the question, an approach that Hitler had been taking in some of his speeches since 1920. Rosenberg writes: “The Zionist Organization in Germany is nothing more than an Organization that perpetrates the legal subversion of the German state.” He further accuses the Zionists of betraying Germany during World War I by supporting Great Britain and its Balfour Declaration, working for a German defeat and the implementation of the Balfour Declaration, supporting the Versailles settlement, and embracing the Jewish National Home in postwar, British-controlled Palestine."

Dusiznies said...

Oh ... ok ... you have me now convinced .....
Hitler ym"s killed 6 million Jews because of the Zionists who had no State at the time, no Army at the time..
Oh Im now convinced .....😂😂

Anonymous said...

You got your stuff from lying antizionists websites. and you also pulled stuff out of context as they all do, and there's NO record of Rosenberg saying the things you say. even though its in your "book."
Here's what Rosenberg actually r said_________________

Alfred Rosenberg, the chief ideologue of the Nazi party, writing: "Zionism must be vigorously supported so that a certain number of German Jews is transported annually to Pales- tine or at least made to leave the country.".

The Jewish Bolshevism, and became current after the 1917 October Revolution in Russia, featuring prominently in the propaganda of the anti-communist "White" forces during the Russian Civil War.

The theory was later propagated by the Nazi Party and their American sympathizers.[3][4][5][6]

In fact, Nazis hated Russia because of communism and believed jews were its head. In fact, Jewish communists were mostly against Zionism and the largest Jewish org The Bund were Yiddishists who hated Zionists.
In any case, Nazis believed in MYTHS of Jews and and to repaeat those myths by rabbis is insane . and you quoting Nazis is psycopathic .

This is from helmreich book itself______

In order to ensure its racial, ideological, and strategic interests, the Hitler regime actively supported the status quo in Palestine and the Middle East during the interwar period. This included the perpetuation of British imperial power in Palestine, the Jewish National Home (not an independent Jewish state) promised by the Balfour Declaration, and the rejection of Arab self-determination and independence.The Third Reich and the Palestine Questionis the first comprehensive study of German Palestine policy during the 1930s.

It was only later that Nazis were convinced that murdering Jews woild simply their problem.
in any case, Nazis are dead and Zionists are one of the most advanced countries in the world. so who cares???????????????

Anonymous said...

******Therefore the Satmer Rebbe had a valid point in blaming the Holocaust on Zionism. He did not make up this claim ****

Of course not. He believed our murderers just like you.

Anonymous said...

**He accused German Zionists of having betrayed Germany during the war by supporting Britain’s Balfour Declaration and pro-Zionist policies and charged that they had actively worked for a German defeat and the Versailles settlement to obtain a Jewish National Home in Palestine. He went on to assert that the interests of Zionism were first and foremost those of world Jewry,**

and this guy wants people to believe it, Zionists in Germany numbered maybe 5,000, so how in the world can they undermine Germany you mindless ass hole ? German Jews were the most loyal to Germany and NEVER wanted to leave.

Anonymous said...

So let's get this straight.
Nazi and anti-Semitic hate and murder have nothing to do because we're an AMM Hashem, or that we have the Torah or Aysov Soneh liyakov or Talmud study , but because of Zionism. They murder us for 22000 years and now in WWII it's only because of Zionsism.
You may a be a psycho but you can't be that stupid to believe that yourself , no matter how many sentences you vomit.

Anonymous said...

You're writing a whole megillah about what a mentally twisted maniac who believed in racial superiority and other utter nonsense wrote.
You might as well write about other educated meshugoim in mental wards.
You're a sick dude. You really think you convince anybody except for mentally unstable Jews like yourself?

Anonymous said...

Insulting me by calling me names does not change the facts. My contention is that hitler and the nazis were motivated in their hatred for the Jews due to their belief that Jewish German political leaders in the Weimar Republic had capitulated in WW1 and that this was due to machinations of leading powerful international Jewish business leaders like the Rothchilds and that it was all related to the Balfour declaration. The Satmer Rebbe blamed the Holocaust on Zionism. I believe his reasoning was mostly spiritual based on his interpretation of Maamarei Chazal regarding the 3 Oaths.However I suspect he also developed his world view based on the the real world facts on the ground and in this respect he had a valid point. Just because you are happy with the present situation of having a thriving reborn Jewish state of Israel does not make the Satmer rebbes allegations go away. Perhaps the question should be phrased differently. If you could reverse the past by trading the creation of the state of Israel in order that the 6 million Kedoshim could be spared,would you? Or would you say it was a neccasary sacrifice?

Dusiznies said...

Lots of meaningless "word salad"
So what would would be the Satmar Rebbe's position about the Jews murdered and raped during the Russian pogroms?

What would be the Satmar Rebbe's position about the Jews murdered during the Crusades?

If Im not mistaken that was before the Zionists were around ....

The Satmar Rebbe's position was a necessary therapeutic exercise for his guilt of

#1 Wrongly advising his Chassidim not to emigrate to the then Palestine and to the USA, thereby causing the deaths of thousands of needless deaths

#2 Not negotiating with the Zionists in Romania to save over 500 children but then decided to negotiate with the Zionists when it came to save himself and get his seat on the Zionist Kastner Train ...

The Satmar Rebbe's view was not as you put it "his world view based on the the real world facts on the ground "
His View was totally distorted ...and I'll give you some prime examples
"The Rebbe always said that the "Ribbono Shel Oilom" was behind the murder of the 6 million Jews ....for whatever reason ....
but in June 1967 he said in a Shaolosh Seudois Toirelel in reference to the 6 day war .... that the victorious war by the Israelis and the miracles were all from Satan ... or as he put it the "Samch Mem"

So according to this bizarre reasoning ... when it comes to murdering Jews, G-D himself does that
but when it comes to saving Jewish lives ... then G-d sends Satan the "samach Mem"

Makes a load of sense...!!!

The Rebbe also predicted in 1957 and then reiterated this twisted prediction in 1967 that there would be no frum Torah institutions in the State of Israel in 20 years ...
The Satmar Rebbe also insisted that the Americans never reached the moon and it was all a Hollywood production ...!!!

Anonymous said...

The only common denominator I see between the Nazis,the Crusades,and the Russian Pogroms is that Gentiles often despise Jews to the extant that they are motivated to murder them. That does not weaken the Satmer Rebbes argument that Zionism caused the Holocaust and as I explained above there is evidence for this argument from the writings of the Nazis Yimoch Shemom. As far as the Theological problem of Theodicy, that is another issue entirely but I would direct your attention to the Midrash which states that 2/3 of the Jews in Egypt were killed during the plague of darkness. So the concept of large portions of our people hood being wiped out by G-d is something that is part of our history since the beginning.
As far as the Moon landing being a hoax, the Satmer Rebbe was not alone in that contention. There are many highly intelligent people around today who believe it was a hoax. In fact there was a movie back in the 1970s called Capricorn one which centered around just such a hoax about a fictional trip to Mars. Personally I do not believe it was a hoax because I do not think the engineering required to pull it off was so outlandish. However at the same time I would not put it past a very powerful government to be able to pull off such a hoax.Bringing it back to the Holocaust, we see the elaborate methods of trickery that the Nazis used to deceive their victims till the last moment such as installing shower heads in the gas chambers to trick people into thinking they were going into a shower.Or having victims write letters back to their relatives telling them they were fine before being gassed. Bringing it back to our times,We have an entire fake news propaganda industry that would have made Goebbels jealous.To determine the true interpretation of reality requires a great deal of critical thinking, questioning, and ultimately divine assistance.

Dusiznies said...

Anyone that really believes that the Zionists caused the Holocaust is a heretic, and that's not my opinion, it was the opinion of the Kloizenberger Rebbe the nephew of the Satmar Rebbe, who the Satmar Rebbe despised .... The Kloizenberger said many times that "no one knows why the Ribbono Shel Oilim brought this Gezirah, and anyone who says that they know, are "koifrim" and liars"

Why did the Satmar despise his own nephew ... for many reasons amongst them because after the war the Kloizenberger supported the Zionist State.

As far as your contention about the "Midrash which states that 2/3 of the Jews in Egypt were killed during the plague of darkness"
I'm glad you brought that up .... they died because they refused to make "Aliyah" and therefore they are dead in this world as well as the next and will never wake up even for Techyas opposed to Shevet Efraim that were killed because they left Egypt early, they will wake up for Techiyas Hameiseim because ... yes, they made a mistake with their calculation of the Geulah but nevertheless they at least wanted to go and make "Aliyah"

As far as your silly comment that
"as the Moon landing being a hoax, the Satmer Rebbe was not alone in that contention. There are many highly intelligent people around today who believe it was a hoax."

I know very "intelligent" people that deny that there was a Holocaust and I know a lot of "intelligent" that believe that the Twin Towers were never destroyed and I know other "intelligent" people that say the Zionist did that!
And I knew an "intelligent" person who believed foolishly that the Zionists caused the destruction of the 6 million innocent women and children.
You can visit any Barnes & Noble Store and see shelves of conspiracy theories.

Do you know how many people worked on the Moon Landing????
400,000 are you telling me that from those 400,000 people and if you count their wives and children that would be about 3 million .... that everyone of those kept that secret that they "never landed on the moon?"
Don't you think that at least one person of those 3 million would say ...."hey that never happened"?

The Rebbe was fed his information from Yossel Ashkanazi, who couldn't speak a word English and who got his info from WEVD ....the Rebbe also got his information from a bunch of political ignoramuses ...

The Rebbe was a very naive guy who in his own admission in a 1967 drosho said that he is not a "baal ruach ha'kodesh" and I'll take his word on that ... he was also guilt ridden about his very bad advise to his chassidim to stay in Europe, just to get slaughtered like sheep .... and was guilt ridden for negotiating with Zionists for a seat on the Kastner Train .....

Anonymous said...

I don't believe the Satmar Rebbe was guilt ridden at all. I think he stayed consistent with his beliefs throughout his life and I commend and respect him for having the guts to stand up staunchly and proudly for his unpopular beliefs.We should all take a lesson from that whether or not we agree with him. If you are foolish enough to believe that the US government, or large US industries are incapable of pulling off massive hoaxes with projects that hundreds of thousands of people are working on than you are just plain gullible. Just remember the term "conspiracy theory" was invented by the CIA in the 1960s in order to knock away and deflect people questioning the official Warren commission report into the assassination of JFK. It is just such a naivete of the evil that a government could be capable of that lulled European Jewry into complacency in the face of the Nazi onslaught.Eli Wiesel has written about how people who escaped and came back to warn about the gas chambers were not believed. Sometimes it is wise to be a "conspiracy theorist".