This young man, a Talmud Chachim, who wrote a sefer in honor of his own wedding, left religion and became a cool guy.
This OTD business has now reached epic proportions, yet the Frum World refuses to address this issue.
See below how he makes kiddush for his OTD buddies!
See below how he makes kiddush for his OTD buddies!
36 comments:
He went of the derech and came back on stop stam making a bad name and loshon horo
Rachmana Litzlan. May Hashem save us from the ever-flowing tide towards the wrong road and help everyone to stay on the Derech in every way.
Obviously, something not ringing true - in the haredi world at least. Just a deafening silence from the Rabbonim as to how truly widespread the OTD route has grown, and continues to gather speed.
again you copy shoulzons yellow blog
Berry
whats not being addressed is the the amount of ADULT children leaving the fold in both the chassidish and yeshiva communities. These kids are making it through school and I'm sure many parents feel "blindsided" by the changes but the cracks were there. The frum community needs to address the whole problem of how we are browbeating our children into submission without explaining why we are frum, what is true kudusha and how the breakdown in society is affecting our yes OUR communities, why is modesty so important, everybody's path....etc. however, we teach little of this and instead rely on social control to raise our children. Instead our children are getting mixed messages because they see what our true values are by making parlor meetings in McMansions, giving kovod to only rich people, and "oy nebaching" our neighbors children or r"l chasing out those who don't conform. I hate to say it but we're no different that other religious communities in America.
The guy is wearing a HAT for Kiddish!!! Yes a HHAAATTT!!!
The guy is making Kiddish - what for if he's really totally off the derech.
The 'Chevrah' are listening to kiddish!! Why ????
There is Challah on the table. Wow.
There is hope. LOTS of hope!!!!
He looks like he's really into it and got kavonoh saying that kiddish!
Just a hunch, but I wonder if at moments like this, he regrets his decision to go OTD. He gave up the life he was familiar with and probably many other good things associated with frumkeit and his community.
Sometimes people get farnarisht and go OTD all the way. Why can't they just be like most other frum people who do an avayroh from time-to-time, but are otherwise grounded in frumkeit? Doesn't the gemoroh say that if someone is itching to do an avayroh, he should get dressed in black and go to a faraway place to do it? Why can't these people just do that? Why throw out the baby with the bath-water?? The outside world is not better than the frum one, hands down!
Me in Bklyn, I agree. A person must not only be taught what to do -- but why. We are raising up a new tower -- that is, generation, and we need to lay the foundations. This applies to all children.
He obviously didn't walk away from God, he's saying Kiddish after all.
And perhaps without him, the people nearby wouldn't hear Kiddish.
OTD? I guess OTD means he doesn't fit the haredi prescription. Good for him, He's using the free will that God gave him to be who he is.
And he didn't give up God even though he gave up curls by Nellie Olson and hats by Goodyear and Michelin.
12:37 PM,
"Doesn't the gemoroh say that if someone is itching to do an avayroh, he should get dressed in black and go to a faraway place to do it?"
Thanks, maybe that explains why haredim always wear black. Always prepared.
AishKodesh said...
"Rachmana Litzlan. May Hashem save us from the ever-flowing tide towards the wrong road and help everyone to stay on the Derech in every way."
Oh, Aish, you're so funny sometimes. Perhaps this IS his derech. Why does his derech have to look like every other black-hatter's derech? Just so he can be accepted by other black hatters?
Anyway, that people are leaving fundamentalist Judaism at increasing rates says something about the fundamentalist derech. That "derech" has lead to a lot of misery. Maybe people are fed up with it and want to pursue something fundamentalist Judaism doesn't value very much... like personal happiness.
This guy is really really smart, he saw through the bs that his rebbes were teaching him and also what he saw in his neck of the woods, kol kavod to him hats of :)
Who is he
Unfortunately for your disreputable hashkafa, (and fortunately for those who found the courage to leave), those with a measure of intelligence have all the sources at their disposal to recognize a corrupt religion when they recognize it. Your "Gedolim" can impose all the proclamations and prohibitions they want but they'll never surpress one's curiosity to determine if much of your Hashkafa is just a corrupt a pile of garbage.
The internet is just a click away and the more intelligent of your kehilla need only to access a cellphone to authenticate their suspicions.
The ones that remain in you hashkafa are those like yourself and inbreeding does the rest to degrade and perpetuate it.
You know what, Chafraud; thank you for being less cynical regarding this guy. I appreciate it.
As for your comment, the Derech is not necessarily being a "black-hatter" -- it's following the Torah. Is wearing a black hat, etc. part of it? Could be. But it certainly is not one of the Ikkarim and not doing so certainly does not make one not on the Derech. Not keeping the Torah, C"V, now that is a different story...
Btw at least between my freinds and people i know it was only the kids who where not clever and simple who went off no clever kid i know went off
Again it useualy is not the clever kids who go off it happens more kften to stupid and simple kids
Abe, It's ironic when people talk about the "courage" to leave the religion, when the real courage is to stick with Yiddishkeit, even when the outside world beckons. It doesn't take any courage to fail.
August 16, 2017 at 8:22 PM--I can see where you are coming from with your atrocious spelling,di shoite vus di bist, go back to elementary school
"This OTD business has now reached epic proportions...."
Stop with the fake news. You like the media report what you want to hear, and what you want people to think.
there are over 2 million+ frum Jews in this world. The fact that just a few hundred are even a few thousand went OTD is testament of how great we are doing. Compare that to any other religion, and no one comes even close.
Not to mention that a large percentage of the OTD community has mental issues, personality disorders, and lots of them have come from unstable backgrounds.
The OTD Klux Klan will with all their understanding, love, acceptance, and open mindedness are the biggest haters under the sun.
They "love and accept everyone".... who agree with them.
August 16, 2017 at 11:02 AM
for you and me ? maybe... unfortunately there are a lot of so called frum chassidishe A- holes who would much rather him be totally off the derech then him ware a fur hat or G-d forbid ware a down hat and by kiddush? oh my...
The kids who are off the derech get together for davening and shabbos meals because they miss shabbos. So they drive to someone's house and daven in whatever clothing they want and eat traif cholent. They love it.
The reason why they go totally off the derech is because for them, it's black or white. Either they believe or they don't believe. And if they don't believe they feel it's fake to pretend.
August 16, 2017 at 11:59 PM--
"there are over 2 million+ frum Jews in this world". Thats an exageration,i say there are many orthodox jews that doesnt mean they are all happy and content,you know the saying where there are 2 jews there is 3 oppinios
Vwood, beautiful and Emes!
August 16, 2017 at 9:36 PM --- Well said.
We need to stop giving these tuna bygels so much attention!!! If i went off the derech i would move to some beach town far away from the jewish comunities and eat the gid hanasheh in my freezer while wearing my shatnez sweater i always wanted to wear!
I want to make a program to help these tunabygels go off the derech. It drives me crazy that they are hanging around bk and monsey. If you dont want to be frum, great, no one will force you to be. Now go! Dont wear not tznius clothes and have ur kids still wear kratzilidk payos! Dont blab in yiddish all day on ur harley! Just go! Assimilate! Why do they all have to stick around! They want us to consider it a crisis! They need the attention, going off the d has nothing to do with religion for theM! it has to do with attention and the need for people to notice them! Otherwise they would just leave and get jobs and assimilate! Enjoy life without halachik restrictions free of this oppressive community and the fakakte monsey traffic!!! If you know any OTD tuneys who need help going off the D , send them my way and Ill help. Just get em all out of here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hope to post an article soon on ThinkingYid.com about this issue exactly!!!
The Thinking Yid, why?! If someone is, R"L, falling, they need help back up. It is our responsibility -- not only to Hashem, but to them as well, to keep them on the true path.
Even if someone feels like they WANT to go off the Derech, that is not their true desire (see Hilchos Gerushin 2:20). It is probably becuase of some Yetzer Hara or bad experience, etc. On the contrary to what you said, we must help everyone to live as Frumme Yid and really feel the joy in it.
I remember when I was younger -- in my teens -- I had difficult struggles with the Yetzer Hara. It would (almost) constantly throw doubts, questions, desires, etc. at me. It was really tough. There were times where I was close to almost going off... It wasn't that I really had doubts or really wanted to go off the Derech, but the Yetzer kept throwing the questions etc. at me and trying to MAKE me feel like that.
Baruch Hashem, I came out of the experience Frum, and also with a greater sympathy towards those who have struggles. These people don't really want to go off the Derech -- and even if they feel like they do, it is because the Yetzer Hara is trying to make them feel that way. It is especially at these times of, yes, crisis, that they need help -- not to, C"V, be pushed to "what they "want" to do."
And I think we can stretch this for everyone at all times: We should not jump to judge people or criticize them -- how do we know what struggle they are going through?...
The Thinking Yid said...
"It drives me crazy that they are hanging around bk and monsey."
Well, you appear just the guy to make BK and Monsey OTD-Judenrien.
Keep up your great crusade. And remember, Arbeit Macht Frum!
"They want us to consider it a crisis! They need the attention, going off the d has nothing to do with religion for theM! it has to do with attention and the need for people to notice them!"
You're wrong. Leaving religion has EVERYTHING to do with being displeased with religion. And not much to do with what you think of them or even the attention you give. Nobody needs your dumb-ss attention. Get out of your 'all about me' mindset.
And try not to feel so bad when someone expresses that your brand of oppression sucks. The frummies all cry when someone goes off of THEIR derech. The individual still always has their own path. And hopefully it leads far away from people like you, who don't give a damn anyway.
What do you have to offer anyway beyond your narrow worldview and rejection of these people?
Odd about that heroin problem going on in "frum" communities, isn't it? They're falling one after another. And your silly brand of frumkeit hasn't prevented it, and can't seem stop it from continuing. Better a clean secular than a religious junkie. Try to remember that the next time you see a "frum" Jewish coffin with a 20-something in it. Kiss your siddur and thank HaShem that you don't have to waste any of your precious "attention" on them beyond watching their coffin go into the ground. Mazel tov to you "Thinking Yid" you won't have to suffer them anymore.
And if they were "OTD" you can celebrate big time... better dead than frei! "See what 'God did to them' for going off the derech? Ha ha."
Leaving a primitive, superstitious, oppressive religion is no more a "crisis" than that stupid fabricated "shidduch crisis" your ilk is constantly whining about.
--
Anonymous said at 8:20 PM...
"Btw at least between my freinds and people i know it was only the kids who where not clever and simple who went off no clever kid i know went off"
August 16, 2017
Anonymous said at 8:22 PM...
"Again it useualy is not the clever kids who go off it happens more kften to stupid and simple kids"
August 16, 2017
Yes, it must be only the deviants who dare to learn English spelling and grammar who go off, not the "clever" kids.
Anyway, thanks for demonstrating your pathetic version of frum English literacy.
Perhaps you're more suited to living in a Yiddish or Aramaic speaking country. If you're in the US, it may disappoint you to learn that our national language is American English. My kids speak, spell, and write it very well. I wouldn't bet that your kids do.
Who do you think has more money me or my accountent???.... And who knowz better english and how to spell me or my acc.???.....???
So does it really metter what your english is like?
https://chafrauddepravitch.wordpress.com/
"My Ilk"
You are a generalizing, sore, clearly-scarred, racist.
Keep the rants to your blog and just leave a link. Saves everyone some scrolling time.
The Thinking Yid,
""My Ilk"
You are a generalizing, sore, clearly-scarred, racist."
Your ilk is a race?
No. Read. Your ilk is "primitive, superstitious, oppressive".
Now read YOUR words:
"It drives me crazy that they are hanging around bk and monsey."
...
" If you know any OTD tuneys who need help going off the D , send them my way and Ill help. Just get em all out of here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Seems that you're the one looking to create areas of only 'pure, frum, ubermenchen Jews.' A master race for Brooklyn and Monsey? Expel the OTDs? How do you plan to "get them all out?" Cattle cars?
So be sure to add "intolerant" to the description of your "ilk."
And if you were a "thinking yid" you'd realize it's people like you from whom these so-called OTDs are running. Or maybe you do realize it, and that's why you're so resentful about it and can't simply let them live the way they want.
At least they're not molesting children in yeshivas. That seems to be the the dirty work of some very "ON THE DERECH" rabbis (who too often get a lot of "ON THE DERECH" support from their communities to cover it up or evade punishment).
Yes, your ilk.
And "frum" is phony as well. I've seen enough comments on stories like this by people suggesting continue dressing/playing the part. Or by others who admit they don't believe in God but just go along with the "game." That's a personal trap, not a relationship with God. Frauds who can't even be true to themselves, let alone true to HaShem.
Laughable. You care neither about Jews, nor people in general. Just your "ilk."
Now go build your frummie master race!
Chafraud-Depravitch, you are obviously missing the entire point.
I dont care if they are frum or not, just if they arent going to be observant why do they still stick around? they dont want to be a part of the frum commubity then leave. No one is stopping you!
Just like you think a handful of pedos make us all child rapists, you cannot have a normal debate about a topic you are so (clearly) emotionally invested in!!
Thinking Yid, did you read my reply to your comment?
Anyway, Gut Shabbos all!
Thinking Yid said,
"I dont care if they are frum or not, just if they arent going to be observant why do they still stick around?"
What does it matter to you? You don't own Brooklyn nor Monsey.
And if they were raised, or have family there, they have as much right to be there as you or ANY other American citizen, Jewish or not. Whatever ties they have to Brooklyn or Monsey are reason enough for them to be there, regardless of what you think.
"Just like you think a handful of pedos make us all child rapists, you cannot have a normal debate about a topic you are so (clearly) emotionally invested in!!"
A handful of pervert child molesters doesn't make your haredi community all child molesters. But defending one, collecting defense funds for one, does make 'y'all' a part of the same problem.
In fact, those who engage in that behavior ARE responsible for perpetuating the problem. So one perhaps could make an argument for full "frum" "haredi" communities of child molesters.
How's that for not emotionally invested? Now here's the juicy stuff...
And you'd be mistaken to think I'm so far removed from haredi culture myself. I know many. I entrust my children's education to them. And unlike the cover-up clans of Brooklyn and Mosey, some of ours have the guts to call out SCA publicly for what it is and take action. Most are good people (not including the parasites of Chabad here in CA, who are of course mostly criminal frauds). But I don't dress like them, or try to be like them. Yet, I'm well accepted among them within our local Jewish community. And when I do run into Brooklyn or Monsey brand elitism, I gladly extend my finger and tell them "up yours" without any fear of being kicked out of a community.
And any hurt you may read in my writing is a symptom of eating a decade's worth of Chabad's bullsh!t. Ultra-Orthodox fraud at it's finest. And a product of your precious Brooklyn.
Chabad alone is living proof that 'righteous "haredi" Judaism' is mostly a myth. Their garb is essentially a costume performance. Imagine my shock after years of donations when my family needed them (literally a life/death situation) and they scattered like roaches when the lights come on.
"Haredi" and "Ultra-Orthodox" are titles that are complete BS, much like "BT" and "OTD."
You want a homogeneous haredi Brooklyn? Call your garbage and Chabad cockroaches back to town.
I used to believe haredi indicated a good observant person.
I'm much wiser now. Haredi is just dogma and superstition in a beard, black hat, and black coat. It's only what's inside a person and their actions that count. They are no different than the rest of American society, a mixed bag of the meritorious and the scum. Torah does NOTHING for them. Their level of religious practice means nothing. I take my haredi associates one at a time, as individuals, based on their actions. And they don't get an f'n cent until they have a proven track record. Their haredi costume, and ritual observance do nothing to indicate what kind of people they are. And there is no reason to judge them favorably without investigation because "haredi culture" as a whole has as much fraud in it as ANY other culture or religion.
And then they shake their fists at the so-called OTD. Ridiculous hypocrites.
Anyway, if you want your haredi master race, call all your garbage back to Brooklyn (especially Crown Heights). We don't advocate their expulsion here, but we won't miss them either.
Clean up your own ranks, and don't worry your pretty little kipah-covered head over the OTD.
---
AishKodesh, there's a big time difference between us (3 hours), so as usual you won't see this in time:
But all the same, good Shabbos.
Who is this handsome yungerman
It seems like I am one of few people here using my real name and picture. Shame on you, on those that post as anonymous.
OK, I must say, I fully understand and sympathize with them. I struggle with all the time. It does seem we give honor to those that Torah scholars, rich, or have some connections that are vital to the existence of an organization.
Just yesterday, I am walking along a well traveled road along a lake in Lakewood, NJ, where I have been for a few days. I am from Tzfat, Israel, where people generally try to help each other, especially outsiders. I had no ride from a kosher store to my host's house and I was embarrassed to ask for a ride. I stayed by the entrance with my luggage and two shoulder strap bags, as well as my shopping. No one offered me a hitch hike, I started walking to my destination. Along that well traveled road along a lake, NO ONE stopped for me!!! I must have counted at least 30 cars that zipped by. After the first 10 I already knew no one could ever stop for me. If this were Tzfat, by the 10th car, someone would stop. What is wrong with people here? They have no rachmanas for some one pulling luggage and multiple bags in the heat of day??? For a split second I thought about "I don't want to be frum anymore. But what that accomplish? Just because of a few bad apples, actually many bad apples, I would lose out. This is the reason why many go off the Derech! Kids see an important mitzvah being ignored, when it doesn't cost you anything, especially if you are going in the same direction anyways, and then start to wonder what really matters to you. I welcome a reply if you think I am wrong.
If you can’t respect someone else’s choices in life....then what value do your choices have?
"Anonymous" Wow what a great point you make. How many go off so far, just over the need for certain things that can be had without totally losing their entire identity, whether it's muter or asur, rarely is it required to throw it all away for what they seek to engage in..
Uber yener kiddish!!!! I can hear his soul talking so clearly!!
We say by a hadran, "Vlo Sisnshi Minon" that even if I leave the mesechta it shouldn't leave me, his varmkeit towards yiddishkeit is clearly alive and well b"h.
Unfortunately, There is no hadracha or "guide for going OTD" And as a result many end up at a place where not necessarily did they need to get there solely based on their original reasons for leaving.
,��
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