On Monday Uri Maklev (Degel HaTorah) sharply criticized the approach advocating the integration of Torah study with military service, in a speech delivered before yeshiva students.
Maklev said that, in his view, the main challenge stemmed from Religious Zionist Torah leaders who promoted the idea of combining Torah study with military service.
“Some political figures said that it is possible to have Torah study while also pursuing other endeavors - this is the approach of Religious Zionism, and for this they will not be forgiven," Maklev said. “People introduced this idea and said, ‘We study Torah, but it is also possible to do so alongside service.’ This concept, this great damage - this is what we are dealing with."
Rabbi Chaim Navon responded: “A thousand apologies, Maklev, but we did not say this; rather, Rabbi Yossi said it in Tractate Yevamot: ‘Anyone who says, “I have only Torah," does not even have Torah.’ What we did was open the Gemara and expose your bluff - and for that, we apologize."
9 comments:
But the Charedim are right on this issue because many in the DL world have a weak foundation in gemara and halacha and in general lack a real mesorah.
1:57
I see that you are a dumb naive Yeshivishe Chareidie who gets his info from RY that call Jewish Children in uniform that are moiser nefesh for klall Yisrael, "rashaim" and "murderers"
There thousands in the DL community that are "baki in Shas and poiskim"
DL shuls are packed with pashute bala-batim whose knowledge in Halacha would run circles around any Yeshivishe Graduate from Slabodka
They actually have the real mesorah, Chardeie Mesora goes back only 50 years, besides that many are amaratzim!
Given how easy it was to produce a source confirming the DL position, this Gadol(tm) doesn't seem to have much of a foundation in gemara or halacha either.
#1 - I don’t see the problem with Maklev stating his position. He didn’t call anyone a Rasha.
#2 - I looked up the Gemara in Yevamos 109. I honestly don’t see the relevance. He is referring to Kiyum Hamitzvos and Schar for Limud Torah. Still, I’m sure Rav Navon looked up the Gemara as well and he is clearly entitled to share his position.
#3 - I would be thrilled if thousands of Jews in any community are bekiim in Shas and Poskim. I think a good use of this blog would be to name ten such Talmidei Chachomim in the DL community who did military service and profile them. That would make your point much stronger than anything else.
Your 3:08 comment is proof positive that you are off your rocker! Even your fellow krumma traveler Slifkin says we go back to R’ Chaim Volozhiner who in his arrogant kefira he proceeds to denigrate
4:05
Speaking about "going off your rocker" Your comment is entirely incoherent
1. Correct, but anyone who insults DL gets under DIN's skin.
2. Yes, the Gemara in question doesn't have any relevance to the topic at hand, but again, neither does the הַאֲחֵיכֶם יָבֹאוּ לַמִּלְחָמָה וְאַתֶּם תֵּשְׁבוּ פֹה card DL likes to pull have any relevance. These guys really don't know how to read a Passuk or Gemara.
3. There are no thousnads of Bekiim in Shas and Poskim in any community. DIN would just name you a bunch of long-beard, techeiles and sandal-wearing, gun-toting Rabbis who you never heard of and are likely bona-fide amei Ha'aratzim to prove his point. You can't argue because you never heard of them, and rightfully so.
Rabbis at Bar Kamtza event also didn't call anybody a rasha. They only caused sinah and machlokes
5:23
These Yeshivishe amaratzim tear out a pasuk in the Torah if it doesn't fit their agenda of not enlisting or going to work.
הַאֲחֵיכֶם יָבֹאוּ לַמִּלְחָמָה וְאַתֶּם תֵּשְׁבוּ פֹה
Is something MOshe Rabbeinu himself said ... there is no Rashi on this and neither is their any meforshim on this,
Why You ask
Because one doesn't need a "peirish" on something that makes perfect sense!
כָּל הַמֵּשִׂים עַל לִבּוֹ שֶׁיַּעֲסֹק בַּתּוֹרָה וְלֹא יַעֲשֶׂה מְלָאכָה וְיִתְפַּרְנֵס מִן הַצְּדָקָה הֲרֵי זֶה חִלֵּל אֶת הַשֵּׁם וּבִזָּה אֶת הַתּוֹרָה וְכִבָּה מֵאוֹר הַדָּת וְגָרַם רָעָה לְעַצְמוֹ וְנָטַל חַיָּיו מִן הָעוֹלָם הַבָּא. לְפִי שֶׁאָסוּר לֵהָנוֹת מִדִּבְרֵי תּוֹרָה בָּעוֹלָם הַזֶּה.
You write " There are no thousands of Bekiim in Shas and Poskim in any community."
Guys there are over 300,000 Chardeim learning all day and yet this Chardeie admits they cannot produce Bekiim in Shas and Poskim!
Wow! What a Chillul Hashem!!
But right here in Beit Shemesh there are tons of Dati Leumi guys who are Baki Bshas, Tanach and poiskim..
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