by Yaakov Wolff
This post will deal with a halachic question and it’s hashkafic ramifications:
If a person comes late to work due to traffic, and the traffic was a result of a road blocking protest, does the protester need to pay damages?
A related, juicier, separate question: can the tardy employee get out of his car and punch the protester to get him out of the way? Is this legitimate self-defense?
I usually avoid clickbait and divisive political topics, but this case is directly tied to Shtark Tank. That’s because this sugya is a halachic expression of the Torah’s approach to work.
I want to clarify that this is not meant to be practical halacha, and not a post about the legitimacy of the protesters, police, or anyone else. I am not a dayan, and don’t feel the need to weigh in on political issues. But one of the relevant sources in the gemara will suffice to give us a glimpse into this sugya
A person who damages another person is liable to pay five different payments: nezek (loss of value as if he were a slave), ripui (medical costs), tzaar (pain), boshet (embarrassment), and shevet (loss of work).
The gemara on Bava Kamma 85b says that each payment could be incurred independently. How could shevet be caused without any other damages? The gemara describes a case where one person locks another person in a room, causing them to miss work.
The Rosh says that this is only true if the damager brings the victim into the room and locks him up. But if the employee was already in the room, that is a grama, and the damager would not have to pay.
The Ramban and other rishonim might disagree with this.
The Ramban (Kuntres Dina D’Garmi) writes that shevet is not even garmi, since there is no disagreement like in other cases of garmi (where Rebbi Meir disagrees with the chachamim). He explains that at the moment a person misses work, it is considered hezek nikar.
ואי קשיא לרבנן דלא דייני דינא דגרמי היכי מחייב והא גורם הוא לבטלו ממלאכתו וגורם הוא לו שלא ירויח, לא קשיא דכיון דהרזקיה מההיא שעתא הוא דאפסדיה עד דפתח ליה והא אמינא דהיזק ניכר נמי הוא ובין לר”מ ובין לרבנן חייב
The Shulchan Aruch (CM 420:11) paskens like the Rosh. But it’s important to understand the nekudat hamachloket here: what exactly are the rishonim arguing about?
It seems clear to me that the machloket between the Ramban and the Rosh is about the liability of the mazik, not about the existence of nezek.
My Rebbe, Rav Moshe Stav, used to say that for there to be a chiyuv tashlumin, you need three things: mazik, nizak, and nezek.
Getting back to our sugya, the Rosh doesn’t say that a loss of work isn’t nezek. He just says that if the mazik isn’t active, it is considered grama, and the mazik isn’t directly responsible for the nezek. But it seems clear to me that they both agree with the Ramban’s definition: loss of work has the status of damaged property.
And that’s the fundamental idea: the loss of work is considered nezek. It’s like a smashed window. How could that be?
I would like to suggest that the five tashlumin that are paid when man damages man correlate to four parts of a person. There are different aspects to a person’s self, and each part can potentially be damaged. There is physical damage (nezek and ripui), psychological damage (tzaar), emotional self-esteem damage (boshet), and shevet. We see in the payment of shevet that a person’s ability to work is a core part of his identity, just like the others.
Therefore, taking away a person’s ability to work is considered actual damage.
This makes perfect sense in light of the fact that man was created and immediately put to work.
ויקח ה’ א-להים את האדם וינחהו בגן עדן לעבדה ולשמרה
We see from here as well that a person’s work is a core part of his mission here on earth.
Based on all this, it would seem to give self-defense rights to the employee running late for work. If we assume that loss of work is nezek, and each moment of lost work is ongoing additional damage, then the damaged person should be allowed to remove this threat that is on him.
Lchora this would be completely independent of any chiyuv. Even if you assume that the protester doesn’t pay (because it’s like the grama of the Rosh, or because the protester isn’t directing his act at one particular person, or any other reason), that should be irrelevant here.
The fact is that there is a nizak who is experiencing ongoing nezek, and therefore he should be allowed to defend himself.
17 comments:
Avadda you’re instigating against Pelegniks. You & your Dati Leumi buddies wouldn’t dare take a swing at a Kaplaneest because they’ll beat the crap out of you!
Youre full of crap 10:39
The Kaplanises go to the army and pay taxes
The kaplanists go to the army, pay taxes… and with who do they intermarry ?
12:42
The Pew Research Center consistently finds that American Jews have one of the highest assimilation rates in the world
Over 70% of non‑Orthodox American Jews marry non‑Jews.
In the tzionishte Israel Intermarriage is extremely rare Assimilation rate in Israel ≈ 0–2%
Children of Jews overwhelmingly remain Jewish.
How about just beating the shit out of them with a nice aluminum baseball bat? Dont care if its Peleg, Kaplan, litvish, yeshivish, etc.
These useless bastards need to be taught a lesson once and for all.
That was a good point, not “full of crap”, because it’s irrelevant if Kaplanists serve in Tzahal. They still obstruct traffic with their anti-Bibi obsession
DIN, the reason intermarriage in Israel is so low is partially because they convert all Russians etc. without Kabbalas Mitzvos, so the amount of Goyim (in Israeli minds) is pretty low. Halachically, the intermarriage rate in Israel is higher than 0-2%. Go do the math in your abundance of spare time.
Bottom line: blocking the road means blocking ambulances, police and fire services which could cost lives. It's not about punching the people blocking the road. It's about spraying them in the face with pepper spray, kicking them hard a dozen times and then dragging them to the edge of the road and tossing them into the nearest ditch.
I'm sure you'll do the same when your child is blocking the road
This has nothing to do with blocking roads this is about hate on chareidim when the chillonim make their parades and blocking roads or the d l and mizrachi make their parades with Israeli flags in their hand you have no problem with all the ambulances that have traffic all the Kallahs on the way to their chasuna all people late to work just keep it up with the hate I'm sure you'll bring Mashiach
636
You are an unmitigated liar. I live here in Israel, and you have to be totally blind not to see how the Russians are converting al pi halacha and one sees that no matter where they live, they contribute both in spirituality and in gashmius to this country.
The Pew research only referred to those Jews who have Jewish mothers, so before you shoot your lying trap off do some research, but I'm sure you saw that but you as a "platchiker" Chareidie that doesn't fit into your agenda!
7:39
There are major differences between the Kaplanists blocking the roads and the Bnei-Teirah!
The Kaplanists go to the army and pay taxes!
The parades of the Chiloinm have permits and it is once or twice a year as opposed to the Bnei-Teira who have nothing to do all day, since they don't learn and they block every single day especially in Beit-Shemesh and Bnei-Brak!
The "mizrachi make their parades with Israeli flags" once a year on Yom yerushalyim and they do not block any traffic
My dear readers,
Chareidim are by-in-large a bunch of unmitigated liars and want to rewrite the truth they also, just like Chilonim, do not believe that Hashem answers their prayers, and they certainly don't believe that Teira protects!
זו תורה וזו שכרה
Unlike Chareidim, our children are taught to obey the law
If it was my kid blocking the road, he would have trouble sitting for a few days. I guarantee it would the last time he blocked the road.
Some Kaplanists are anti-IDF - why are you covering up for them?
9:04
Some Kaplanists eat french fries with mustard instead of ketchup
5:36
We forgive them because they are moiser nefesh for klall Yisrael by enlisting
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