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Tuesday, November 14, 2023

Why are the Majority of Chareidim Ignoring the Washington Achdus March?

 

Reprinted from the Rationalist Judaism Blog

We are living in grave and momentous times in the history of our nation. The largest massacre of Jews since the Holocaust took place. 240 hostages are held in Gaza. Hamas threatens the long-term survival of the Jewish State - not directly, but because if Hamas is not defeated, Jews will not feel that Israel is a safe place to live, and our enemies all around will be emboldened.

We also, for the first time in over two thousand years, have our own army working to rescue the hostages and defeat our enemies. In order for that operation to be successful, we need international support, particularly from the US. We need to counter the many hundreds of thousands of people who have been rallying against Israel. And so today, there is a March for Israel in Washington DC. There have been rallies before - for Soviet Jewry, for other important causes. This one is for the safety, indeed the continued existence, of Israel.


Who is going to the rally?

 Jews from almost all walks of life, along with non-Jewish friends of Israel. Schools and shuls and communities. People are flying in from all over the US. Rav Hershel Schachter issued an urgent appeal for everyone to go. He pointed out that when he was in yeshivah, every time there was a war in Israel, they would all go and rally in Washington or at the UN. Accordingly, Yeshiva University and Stern College cancelled classes and thousands of students are going.


And who is not going to this tremendously important event for the Jewish People? 


The American charedi/ chassidic/ yeshiva community.!


Don’t get me wrong. There are many people who are socially/ culturally part of the American charedi yeshiva community that are going. But it’s only those who are on the more “worldly/modern” side of it. It’s grassroots, not based on rabbinic directives from the top. The yeshivos are not going (with some rare exceptions, such as Chafetz Chaim); the hardcore yeshivish and chassidic community is not going; and the rabbinic leadership is not urging people to go.


The lay leadership of the Agudah is convinced of the importance of the march, but the rabbinic leadership is not enthusiastic. The Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah agreed to encourage participation, but their support has been tepid and apparently insincere. 


There was a Kol Korei urging people to davven yesterday, but not to join the march today. The only one of the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah who gave an impassioned speech is Rav Yitzchok Sorotzkin, who said that it is “chazzer treif” to go to the march. Agudah Rabbonim are not urging their shuls to go.


In Lakewood, according to my sources there, there are some buses going. But the enormous yeshiva network is not going. And those who read about events in the Yated or HaModia may not even be aware of the event. In Monsey, it’s business as usual, with most people feeling no emotional connection. The number of people going, as one friend in Monsey put it, is less than the number of people who would go to Montreal to attend a wedding.


Why aren’t they going? 


The standard professed reason is that everything is in Hashem’s hands. Accordingly, our greatest power is in Torah and tefilla rather than rallies and marches.



But it’s bogus to claim that they believe that. Because the charedi community understands the political power of the masses very well indeed. Whether it’s protesting the overreach of the Israeli Supreme Court or the drafting of yeshiva students or secular studies in schools, or engaging in electioneering, they don’t rely on Torah and tefilla - they empty the yeshivos and go out in the tens and hundreds of thousands and rally!


So why aren’t they going to help Israel with the March? 


Because 

(A) they don’t want to validate an initiative that came from outside their community, (B) they don’t want to be part of a larger mission that stresses the achdus of a general Jewish identity rather than reinforcing a separate charedi identity, 

and (C) they just don’t care enough. The hostages are not charedi yeshiva people and nor are the soldiers; they’re not “our boys.”

This is Israel’s hour of need. There’s never been a more important time for achdus in Klal Yisrael. It’s a tragedy and disgrace that the professed “Torah community” is not a part of that.

27 comments:

Anonymous said...

Or maybe they are not going because of who the speakers are, the program, the fact that not 1 perek of tehillim will be said and many other reasons that a person living a Torah chareidi lifestyle would not want to join. It doesn't mean they dont care. It means they have a different approach in their caring

Anonymous said...


What is going be the narrative in the aftermath?

We will barter away long term for possible near term benefit,however important..Even if there is some good purpose.
Those running the program & media will rush to portray convincely that everybody attending similarly subscribe to the same values-however depraved much of that will be.

It will be harder afterwards to establish that we represent anything else.
Only the naive (or those with an incessant ax a la RJ )are unwilling to grasp that that is a part invariably of the agenda

Anonymous said...

As much as my local rabbi wanted to go for all the reasons you mentioned. He would not give his approval after he saw the agenda.

The people on the podium aren't exactly who we'd like our children to look up to.

Garnel Ironheart said...

Exactly right. A culture built on the ethos of "Only we are the real Jews and only we matter."

Dr Phil ,Esquire, Petach Tikvah said...

2:44
Did they try to get one of their own to speak? Apparently Not!
A Torah lifestyle is to show "achdus" and join no matter what!

3:20
Is that a reason not to go? Because of the "narrative after the fact" what a stupid thing to say. One can say that about everything.

3:54
You need your "local rabbi" to give you permission, do you ask he if you can pee? Your local rabbi is an idiot



Dusiznies said...

3:54
On thing is aboundingly clear, your "local rabbi" has no one in his family that is a hostage in Gaza!

Frum but normaL said...

November 14, 2023 at 3:20 PM

Could you please write in English, nobody understood one word of what the heck you are saying.
If you dont speak English, write in Yiddish or Hungarian at least someone will comprehend what the heck you're trying to say

Anonymous said...

Mr. Cohen, why are you sometimes frightened to use your real name, and other times not?

moshe said...

The standard professed reason is that everything is in Hashem’s hands. Accordingly, our greatest power is in Torah and tefilla rather than rallies and marches.-ENOUGH SAID!!!!!!

Akiva Eiger said...

Hey moshe
I don't think you really believe that and Chareidim certainly don't believe that, witness the fact that they do come out to protest against the army, or to elect politicians, I can never forget when the dragged the old R' Chaim Kanievsky to a rally where tens of thousands showed up to bolster the degel faction. Why didn't they just leave everything in "Hashem's Hands" because they don't believe it so please stop parroting narishkeiten that you yourself don't believe

moshe said...

Hey "Akiva Eiger"
Please don't tell me what I believe and don't believe! I know nothing about Israeli politics nor do I care to know about Israeli politics. What I do know is that G-D runs the show not some keyboard warriors hiding behind a gadol hador's name! Shame on u for belittling the great gaon and tzaddik Reb Akiva Eiger!

Cohen Y said...

Phil,DIN,et al

Unsure re: your Psalms
but ours in a few locations states the contrary

Anonymous said...

per the rav of Brisk 'Those who proclaim to be the greatest ohavim, are the greatest son'im'
Whenever hearing those who loudly wrap themselves in the 'achdus' mantle,that should be born in mind

Anonymous said...

Phil ,
Show even once in Nach when achdut sufficiently trumps dissonant ideology
iirc achav generation is poor & short term proof as it eventually led to millennia of catastrophe
י[ "שמעתי מהגה"צ הגרא"א דסלר זצ"ל, שבעת השואה האיומה כאשר

צדיקים וקדושי עליון נחנקו ונהרגו בעינויים קשים יחד עם רבבות מעם

ישראל שנזרקו לתוך כבשן האש, אז שאלו כולם "איפה אלוקיך ישראל"

ואיך הקב"ה מיצר כל כך אפילו לצדיקים וקדושי עליון, וביאר אז הגרא"א

דסלר זצ"ל, שנכון שהיו הרבה צדיקים וחרדים, אבל לא דאגו לשמירת הדת

של אחרים ולא מחו ברשעים מספיק, ועל זה הקב"ה מאוד בחרון אף

וכמוש"כ בחטא העגל "ואנכי אסתר אסתיר את פני בעת ההיא", ובביאור

תוכן העניין, אמר הרב דסלר זצ"ל, שזהו מידה כנגד מידה, שהקב"ה אומר

"אתם לא מחיתם ולא התערבתם למחות על החילול ה', אז גם אני לא

מתערב למנוע את האויבים מלהרוג בכם", רח"ל.

The first Beis HaMikdash was destroyed,(undiscussed in comparison to the second) despite the multitudes of righteous , because there was too much acceptance of sinners (i.e the guise of achdus)
cf. Kovetz Ma’amarim (R Elchanan Wasserman -chofetz chaim)

The pendulum perhaps swung too far the other way in the second. Though even that is cherrypicked out of context

Anonymous said...

(continued) while the gathering may turn out better than the pessimistic prognosticators
Too much experience has shown to assume the worst till proven
Caveat emptor

Dusiznies said...

8:06
Rav Dessler must have missed a famous gemmarah, the gemmarah asks why when Dovid Hamelech went to war many of his soldiers got killed yet by Achav who was an Idol Worshipper no one was killed when he went to war, the gemmarah answers because by Achav even though they were Idol Worshippers they had "achdus" where by Dovid Hamelech where they were tzaddikim there was no achdus.

Dusiznies said...

7:41
your entire comment is incoherent. When did the Brisker Rav say that? In what context? and to whom did he say it to? And what does what he say have anything to do with our situation.
Hey! You don't want "achdus?" Is that what you want no achdus??

LES AYM said...

I too was disallusioned by the speakers scheduled for the program. However did it ever dawn on anyone that if the Agudah and other frum organizations HAD gotten involved that perhaps they could've influenced the program to include tehilim/psalms and at least some frum speakers?
Hey you gotta be in it to be able to influence it.
Standing on the sidelines snd just kvetching "traif" doesn't get on

Anonymous said...

That yet again endlessly distorted comment all out of longer term tragic context was already preempted prior
Reread above

Anonymous said...


Canaan told his descendants on his deathbed to "love theft,love znus" yet "love each other"
Achdus for what?

Anonymous said...

You are unfortunately correct.

Dusiznies said...

9:37
"Canaan told his descendants" bla bla bla
Bizzare response ...

""Canaan told his descendants?" what are you blabbering about? Are you insane?

Anonymous said...

My dear,
it's a chazal

Now,were there problems at this rally?still awaiting feedback.
The onus beforehand nevertheless due to experience is still on you guys who were pushing it
While DIN, for the most part you & your little crowd seem to have pretty decent common values & it would be okay if you were the organizers
'tis terribly naive to assume that about much of the rest of the common rally organizers even for "a good cause"

Anonymous said...

I’m on the bus coming back from the rally. Many of the speakers impressed me. They talked about the horrible lives their families had living in different countries with antisemitism. Three speakers were relatives of hostages. All of them helped me feel their pain. I was happy to listen to them speak - it helps them deal with their horrendous” life after the kidnappings.” I listened and learned from a female world expert on antisemitism.I listened to experts analyze and destroy the speeches and ideals of American and foreign Hamas supporters.The singers were inspiring and on target with their presentations .Our friends in Congress were very pleased that almost 300,000 people showed up.It helps them convince other Congressmen to vote for legislation that is vital for the safety of the Jews who live in Israel. I agree that full-time Torah learners did not have to attend. But where was the rest of Lakewood, Flatbush, Bork Park? Whe
The is your support for the soldiers who are walking around the streets of Yerushalayim protecting you when you visit.Hamas would be happy to do to you what they did to the Jews in the Kibbutz.

Anonymous said...

A pastor spoke but not one Rabbi.

Precisely.


Anonymous said...


What about achov? maybe we should put up some Buddha's just like achov, maybe we should kill all the rabbonim just like achov. There are some good things to learn from him but we should rather listen to Eliyahu

Dusiznies said...

5:15
You must be a yeshivishe meshiginar because your sarcasm must have come from your naive Rosh Yeshiva sitting on his leather chair preaching to the choir his utter nonsense.
yes learn from Eliyahu that enemies and their supporters must be eradicated.
This was a beautiful event with hundreds of thousand of Jews showing that they care.
Why don't you listen to your Rosh Yeshiva when he says that the internet is poison?