מרן הגר"מ גריינמן בדברים נוקבים נגד הנגנים הכשרים: "איסור גמור להחזיק נגנים ושאר המכשירים לשמיעת מוזיקה, גם כל המכשירים הכשרים הם טרייף". .
"All that there is Gemarrah Toisfois and Mishnayois! All the new inventions such as instruments etc brings gehinim and make you lose Oilam Haba even children are prohibited from using them ... the main thing is learning mishanyois"
In which planet is this guy on?
As I have been trying to explain for years, these Gedoilim are totally disconnected from reality!
He expects 10 year olds to sit all day and learn?
I actually know some that do! But those children that do are the talk of town, most children this age need exercise and play and yes listen to music!
These Gedoilim need to be vetted and asked what they are going to talk about.
I am sure that the kids think that he is out to lunch!
15 comments:
Remember... "gedolim" has 2 meanings. and in both cases, the biggest pieces float to the top.
And why many kids frei out completely as there is no milder way of living for them.
Seems that he is very stringent with regard to listening to music after the destruction of the Beit Hamikdash
I don't know what's gotten into you that lately you are showing a real sinah of gedolei Torah that includes painting all with a broad brush for any statement of a yochid. You've been sounding like a URJnik or the Failed Shmatta.
Yes Rav Greineman used strong language but why don't you try to ponderi whats bothering him before jumping to the most harsh conspiracy that he wants them in gantzen cloistered? Where did he discourage any kind of play? It is well known that getting involved in music as "a zach" pulls out of learning. And the younger they are the more damage it usually does. How many entrants to Miami Boys Choir became big talmidei chochomim? And no one is safe even past cheder. Look what happened to Shlomo Carlebach when he ignored R' Aron Kotler's plea to stay away from the guitar.
7:04
Not one person today holds like him if he wants to be stringent. Kol Hakoved.. Don't preach this to 11-year-olds!
When I grew up only drums were allowed in Yerushalayim at Simchas, there was a drummer and a singer, , that is not true anymore. all weddings have full bands, in fact I'm at one tonight, full 24-piece band by a Heimishe Simcha! At Dirshu all the Litvisher Gedoilim were present listening to a band consisting of over 100 classical musicians!
Decorum Please
If he is a yochid and I hope he sure is, then why shlep him to a bunch of 11 year-olds??? If as you posit something was bothering him, he either should have expressed it or kept quiet, this was not the venue for his personal problems.
You ask how many "entrants to Miami Boys Choir became big talmeidei Chachmim" I don't know that can easily be ascertained but I can tell you now for sure that the majority of of BMG "entrants" come out not knowing basic Hilchos Berachos and Shabbos! They are "ribu de'ribu" loimdeshe ama-ratzim! Most of them would be better off taking up an instrument.
R' Aron Kotler z"l's plea, (BTW way his name was not Kotler but Pines) did not work on his very own sister who did not play an instrument but instead joined the Haskala!
I assume this address was given at a cheider under his guidance, rather than at a cheider from some other chug. So what is the problem? They want to prevent the kids from getting addicted to electronic devices and their artificial stimulation, and focus on learning instead, especially in their sensitive, formative, and so important foundational younger years. Even the non-Jewish world has recently become more conscious of and alert to this issue.
He didn't say that they couldn't play or exercise.
You want the kids to grow up worshipping MBD, Lipa, Joey Newcomb, et al, rather than גדולי תורה?
There is a well known psychological limitation many people have - they think that everyone thinks like them. If I can sit and learn 23 hours day, anyone can. If I think it's the only important thing, then they do it. If I think all music is treif, then everyone does.
What, these children don't? WHat's wrong with them?
DIN, come on, like seriously? That's a really cheap shot at R' Aron & you know it. It also implies you think you know better than the rosh yeshiva. You are bashing him for his aitzah to the alter baal tayvah which has been more than vindicated.
And you seriously didn't know that Rav Greineman is a yochid among gedolim who speaks mit a tekifus? Yener cheder is probably shtelled avek for parents who want this kind of shprach. Maybe take your beef to those mishpochos.
You zicher have zero recht to bash the collective yotze BMG azoy, bifrat because your bashing is detached from reality! While you may be familiar with some party chevra & a handful of outright batlonim who got into BMG in the late 1980s & were partially still around into the early 1990s, the yeshiva has majorly cleaned house since then. When the crackdown started in 1989, only 1 of every 3 bochurim applying were accepted & accelerated since then to just a small fraction of applicants. It's not just party yeshivos that were no longer accepted as feeders. For several years already the typical accepted bochur is much more yeshivish / heimish, frum & lomdish. And avaddeh zay kennen halachic basics & then some++. This is the kind of foolish flatulence from grubbeh baal habatim with daughters in shidduchim who feel all kinds of entitlement because they have a few bucks. I've overheard them in shuls dismissively zogging arein shadchanim that Lakewood is "just 900 guys vos halten nisht in lernen". Never mind that it was getting really stale that they kept repeating this mantra when BMG was past population 2000. Even in 1988 it made no sense. So what if there were some unproductive guys? It was of course still ruba deruba top notch. And IF the biggest kevutzah of serious learners were not in Lakewood, then where? There is no long list of yeshivos. You chevra can't even name a single place.
There are no words for you other than idiot!
Take extreme cases. Parenthetically the holy Amshinover Rebbe SHLITA stood up for Shlomo Carlebach.
Big picture kids need outlets.Remember Suki Berry now Rosh Yeshiva Shmuel Brazil ....
All your learning has rendered you PATUR MEN HAMITZVOS you make Joe Biden look and sound sharp.
I like to ask yeshiva bochurim if they can share with me anything in Torah learning. Over 90 percent can't tell me anything. They look like a deer in the headlights . The bochurim are not connected to their learning. Oye
If true, the Amshinover was attempting kiruv on Shloime who despite pulling a Jimmy Carter in zein hartz, was the best kop at the time in Lakewood.
You can be sure however that another holy Rebbe, the Skolya, would have screamed at Shloime as he did to other womanizers.
And this would have been even before Shloime's super-secret Shvartz mistress who was uncovered this past decade by an investigative journalist.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0929632/
This concept makes me wanna barf because it reminds me of lowlife Jewish talent agent Brandon Frankel who was in the news last week. This is beyond womanizing, it's mishkav beheimah. He married the Shvartza hippo who starred in "Precious" and she or it managed to crank out twins that Frankel is responsible for.
"Over 90 percent can't tell me anything."
You mean the Hesder guys in 2024 are going through yeridas hadoros & no longer prioritize memorizing some of Mrs. Nechama Leibowitz's book on Chumash like the older generation of Progressive Yukels do?
@Brisker, as they say in your lovely town Eh Wot?
Do you think you can speak one language?
Rosh yeshivas Mir EY Rav Elefant says that Saroi shel Eisav influences product developers to bring all the electronic devices to market to pull tinokos shel Bais Rabban avek fun lernen
Vos?
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