LIKE SHEEP TO THE SLAUGHTER
Question:
The expression that the Jews in World War II went like sheep to the slaughter, is that true?
Answer:
And the answer is why talk about the Jews? Didn’t the French in World War II go like sheep to the slaughter? The French prepared beforehand a Maginot Line. Now this line contained all the technology of modern warfare. There were deep trenches. There were weapons of warfare. And they were trained in defending these installations. And yet, when Hitler came it was like it didn’t exist. He went through it like nobody’s business and the French just yielded like sheep before the wolf. So the French also went like sheep to the slaughter. Not only the Jews. Everybody did. It’s only because the world has an attitude of trying to belittle the Jews so the Jews are pointed out.
It’s a silly thing that’s used by American people to belittle the Jews. Now, I don’t wish it on American Jews but if they were in the same situation, they wouldn’t have been a bit better.
What happened to the Polish army? The Polish are big ba’alei ga’avah, big showoffs. They were proud of their national prowess. When the time came it was nothing. The Polish army melted away with all the soldiers and tanks. It melted away. It was nothing. It became nothing. The Jews didn’t have any tanks; they didn’t have any soldiers. What do you expect of them? What could they do? If the Jews would have fought back, not one would have remained.
Who remained of the Warsaw Ghetto? Nobody.
Who said it was such a smart thing to make a revolt?
It’s only foolish people, sensationalists, who talk about the uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto. It’s as silly as could be. If they hadn’t made the uprising, a lot of Jews would have remained. Jews remained all over. Wherever Hitler went, Jews remained. Of course, not enough but the fact that they fought back meant it was a death sentence.
Germans were not that thorough. A lot of Jews escaped. But when they started fighting back then the Germans brought all their tanks and all their flamethrowers, and they wiped out all the Jews. So going like sheep is not a foolish tactic. When you have no alternative, the best thing is not to fight. And our forefathers understood this. They didn’t fight against the nations. they sought to placate the nations.
And by the way it was one of the biggest mistakes when before World War II the Jews made a boycott against Germany. It enraged the Germans. Had they followed the advice of our sages at that time they would have bribed Hitler’s lieutenants. You know Hitler’s lieutenants were mercenary people. You could buy them. You could send things to them secretly. they would have pocketed a lot of money but they would have to let a lot of Jews out. The story would have been deterrent.
And so this bravado, this false heroism of fighting back and being killed like a hero is not the way chosen by Jews. We believe it’s better to live not like a hero than to die like a hero. There is a lot of false propaganda that’s extant today but the truth is like the Chinese say: “Who is a hero? the one who remains alive.”
TAPE # 361 (June 1981)
38 comments:
IIRC while he got his wife's parents out, his wife's brother was killed in the Holocaust
It was a notable president who coined the term
" Too proud to fight"
That it would be beneath us
And that very much used to be a Jewish attitude
Cohen Y
That was never the Jewish attitude, the Jewish attitude was actually to fight, this changed after the destruction of the second temple because we had no army, "going like sheep" is one thing but to chastise those brave souls that were fighting in the Warsaw Ghetto is a chutzpah and can only come from someone who has a cold heart and was in the USA at the time.
wow, this guy was sitting on his ass in America while millions are getting slaughtered and he keeps spewing idiocies. As I said in the other post recently, yes, my father A"H who suffered thru the labor camps, and my mother A"H who suffered thru Auschwitz, would not have yelled at him; they would have slapped him right across the face. If I find any of his tapes, I will burn them. What a jackass.
Looks like a Schvuntz
Talks like A Schvuntz
What an ignorant man
Sorry for the language: What an asshole
False.There were those who were THERE who denigrated it as well
And to this day there is a dispute still which side R Ziemba was on
It's definitely a great point rabbi miller is making, there might be other ppl thinking differently. But not being there doesn't mean he can't say his opinion.
So was it the proper thing to take on the romans ?
Presumably it would be benefical to state that where an individual had a decent chance to survive e.g. joining the partisans,that would be what s/he should be going. Martial heroics aside
It's weird how ppl get all worked up if someone says anything against the 100 or so fighters in the ghetto, but are totaly fine to belittle the close to 6000000 of Jews that died in the holocaust
Furthermore, this is assuming he does concurr "better to live not like a hero than to die like a hero ” has limits.
e.g We for long have lauded the jews for refusing to resort to cannibalism to remain alive (unlike the russian POWs)
The ad hominems and lack of respect against a person who did more for judaism than all of you combined is telling
This is a really screen against of course what offends your ilk:his firm moral principles and their influence
Dear readers
You all know that I don't agree with Rav Avigdar Miller,but please be respectful in your comments.
Dus, there are limits to respect. A man who claims Lincoln deserved to be killed because he ended Black slavery and who says this about the heroes of the Holocaust while he himself watched from afar does not deserve respect.
Live
He never said either of what you claim.
Even the latter wasn't for people like you.It was for those who are capable .
By the way many others eg R'kanievsky said wild things too
They are mandated to " afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted"
"Rav Avigdar Miller z"l lived comfortably in the USA while babies were being snatched away from their mother's arms and murdered in front of their very own eyes and while his brothers and sisters in Europe were being gassed to death!"
You make it sound like he was living in luxury then, dining on steak and wine every night. That is libelous. He was actually struggling, living out of town and working hard for Torah and Yiddishkeit, with mesiras nefesh.
"You make it sound like he was living in luxury"
Compared to the concentration camps, he was living in the lap of luxury.
Respect is earned, not automatic because one has a beard and calls himself Rabbi.
> He was actually struggling, living out of town and working hard for Torah and Yiddishkeit, with mesiras nefesh.
Yeah, I'm sure the concentration camp prisoners were, after finishing Krias Shma, saying "Well we've got it lousy but that Rav Miller, pssssh! Such suffering he goes through."
I wrote about this years ago. People conflate learning with decency. The two are not connected. A person can be a Gadol in Torah and a Katan in basic moral ethics.
Just because you don’t agree RAM shita does not give anyone a right to bash. RAM has done more good in this world then all of the bashers combined. Perhaps read his biography – it will be an eye opener. I suggest you send a minyan to ask mechila before its too late
Tyvm extremely intelligent comment among buffoons
And you are naturally small in both!
The Soviet Union was horrid yet a chernobler rebbe left America in 1927 because he was so turned off ,he went back to the early Soviet Union.
And some debated going back to the Nazis rather than stay in the Soviet Union
1:21
You write: "RAM shita"
RAM has been dead for 22 years
" I suggest you send a minyan to ask mechila before its too late"
I suggest that RAM ask for mechila (in shamayim) from all the holocaust victims and survivors. It might take him a while. For those of you defending him, you forget derech eretz kadma letorah. where was his derech eretz?
Tzaddikim b'misasam k'ru'im chayim
Au contraire
The term Derech Eretz isn't to be defined by reform clergy,secularist (modox)jews,the Bund,etc,however much your crowd continuously revels for that
I grew up and davened by RAM, I have heard him say his shita about the holocaust. Being a grandchild of holocaust surveyors on both sides - having uncles, aunts, grandmother etc. pass away during the holocaust. My grandmother who just recently passed away, passed the butcher twice. I heard the stories first hand. It hurts me when I see frum people driving BMW’s/German cars. You could not find a German made product in my house – and I try very much to do the same. Yes, it was hard to hear RAM shita, and there were other Great Torah personalities who did not agree with the shita either. I still am smart enough not to bash anyone and get involved in a machlokes which is clearly beyond our human intelligence. Like I said before, ask mechila. There is a famous story with Reb Moshe Feinstein who someone left RMF funereal early (was Purim in e”y) and suffered headaches till he brought a minyan to ask mechila.
" Like I said before, ask mechila. There is a famous story with Reb Moshe Feinstein"
1. You can be sure Reb Moshe would NEVER have uttered such shtusim. Even if RAM believed it, he should have been smart enough to keep it to himself.
2. I know you consider RAM to be a Gadol, but I do not practice Gadolatry.
3. It angers me too when I see frum jews, especially chasidim, driving Mercedes' and BMWs and Audis and VWs. There are plenty of fancy cars out there. They are spitting on the souls and graves of those who perished.
He had no secret powers, no special knowledge. He had a know it all attitude, which if you trspect, is fine. To me, he was a nobody.
He had the obligation to preach out and bend the arc of the world.
Which he did.
Eh, anything you have difficulty with automatically becomes # 2? Got it.Explains a lot.
It disturbed you? Progress
Guess who else preached controversial stuff.
But it wasn't in English
How come you're all so obsessed with the Warsaw Ghetto?
IF your relatives wanted heroics ,they could've joined my ancestors in protecting,defending,& dying for the Second Reich
But they usually avoided that previously
" Anonymous Anonymous said...
He had the obligation to preach out and bend the arc of the world.
Which he did."
NO, he had the obligation to shut his mouth. You people need to realize that these "gedolim (which also means #2) put their pants on the same way as everyone else; one leg at a time. Respect is earned, and he, in my eyes, does not deserve any respect.
@Sabra65
I respect all people who are greater then me in Torah (aka a Gadol) whether they are referred to Rosh Hayesiva, Rebba, Dayan, Rov etc. even if at times I have hard time understanding their shitas. Just like no none is asking you if one is allowed to eat on Yom Kippur if the situation requires it or demands it and you have no opinion, you then should not have an opinion when it comes to Hashkafa matters.
That's because?! A nobody that's you has perverse wishes?!
Lucky us.
If he would have earned it,the rest of society would be in worse trouble than it already has became .Oh boy
For all of you who disagree with me, well, lets just say we agree to disagree.
im done with this topic. may RAM rest in peace.
Throwing in the towel or Advancing To the rear?
No point in beating a dead horse
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