One of the excuses of the Chardeie Torah leadership for not having their students enlist in the IDF is that they fear that they will go OTD! It seems that they don't really believe that the chinuch instilled in their bochrim can last any challenges in life and the ruchinyois that they embedded is very fragile, and are therefore fearful that the influence in the IDF will destroy the entire Torah perspective they had in their chardeie institutions!
Well here are Chardeim that went off the derech and they were never in the army!
32 comments:
How could you possibly know that? I would assume that most of them went to the army.
A religion that cannot withstand even casual contact with the outside world is worthless.
3:31
I know most of them, because I have been following them on social media, and if you don't believe, why are you following my stories?
Thanks Gargamel for shotzing up the Modern Orthodox who at least 70% of their teens in greater NYC are not Shomer Shabbos
That’s like saying, 'Some smokers live a long time, so why bother quitting?' Sure, bad things can happen regardless of if we go to the army i, but going to the army def increases chances. Let's be real here. your brighter than that
It’s already a tchikava zach that they are OTD but I really chapp hanuah that DIN finds all the women who are fat to showcase
I don’t blame them, I feel sorry for them
Then why are these people not being drafted into the army??? And punished with the "get the chareidim" sanctions for avoiding the army service?
im assuming your not posting my post i sent you earlier about , smokers .
Just because Smokers can die faster doesnt mean if one doesnt smoke he wont die
4:51
So tell us where did you get those statistics? Because here in Israel the MO community is growing and they have very large families and their moisdois are growing up a lot faster than the Charediie moisdois.
So tell us where you got those statistics?
4:54
You have just confirmed that you are a bona fide lunatic! You are comparing smoking cigarettes to the tens of thousands of Chardeim that are falling off a cliff? Instead of addressing the problems you focus on others ...
I used to do that as well, but I stopped doing that when I got to my 5th birthday. B'H I grew up! But you still can't think for yourself and need the haskama of your disconnected and naive RY!
Good luck!
8:00
I am not like you who has nothing to do all day, I give a daf Yomi and look at the comments maybe twice a day!
and since we mentioned the daf, let me quote the gemarrah 49b
ואין מביאין ראיה מן השוטים
4:51
I see the glee dripping from your cursed finger that typed quoted that fake statistic that you made up. You are one sick puppy!
I'm just pointing out that Charedim have no confidence in their chinuch and are therefore fearful that should they will face challenges in the army, they will go off, 'm saying they are going off anyway!
The Daf should change a person for the better, what happened
Garnel Gurnisht (3:35 PM) is now practising the 3 D pattern, Delegitimization, Demonization, and Double standards, each of which, according to the test, indicates antisemitism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Ds_of_antisemitism
"Because here in Israel the MO community is growing and they have very large families and their moisdois are growing up a lot faster than the Charediie moisdois"
LOL!!! If that were true (which of course it's not), why all the hysteria in Israel about Charedim growing at such a fast rate and taking over the country, causing an economic collapse, blah blah blah? The answer is Charedim are growing at a much higher rate than your MO cronies, who have no coherent Hashkafa to hand over to their offspring. And the MO community has a much bigger problem of OTD than Charedim, unless you assume that texting on Shabbos, girlfriends, mixed swimming, no Tznius, is par for the course in the MO world and doesn't classify as OTD...
There is definitely an OTD poroblem in MO but there's a difference. The problem with the MO eudcation system isn't the high level of interaction with the outside world but the lack of passion of the educational system. As a result, the children often drift away but they still maintain contact and sometimes even drift back.
Chareidi kids, on the other hand, see things in black and white and when they leave, they leave. Bacon double cheeseburgers on Yom Kippur to keep proving they're made the change and as a result they rarely go back.
But there's the difference again - kids who start off MO and remain MO do so having seen the outside world and freely chosen to remain with Torah observance. Chareidi kids who stay Chareidi do so because they've never been presented with an alternative.
9:46
Funny you should say that, as I haven't any Chardeie change for the better, yet they want to sit in learn the whole day
Despite what the Rambam
warns
כָּל הַמֵּשִׂים עַל לִבּוֹ שֶׁיַּעֲסֹק בַּתּוֹרָה וְלֹא יַעֲשֶׂה מְלָאכָה וְיִתְפַּרְנֵס מִן הַצְּדָקָה הֲרֵי זֶה חִלֵּל אֶת הַשֵּׁם וּבִזָּה אֶת הַתּוֹרָה וְכִבָּה מֵאוֹר הַדָּת וְגָרַם רָעָה לְעַצְמוֹ וְנָטַל חַיָּיו מִן הָעוֹלָם הַבָּא.
This was 15 years ago which today is nuch erger
https://www.jta.org/2011/06/22/ny/for-many-orthodox-teens-half-shabbos-is-a-way-of-life
At a recent campgrounds Shabbaton sponsored by a local Modern Orthodox high school, the teenage participants broke into small groups after the meals, as is usual, to talk with their friends.
On their cell phones.
Of the 17 students who attended the weekend program, said 17-year-old Julia, a junior at the day school, most sent text messages on Shabbat – a violation of the halachic ban on using electricity in non-emergency situations.
“Only 3 [of the 17 students] didn’t text on Shabbos,” Julia says. Most did it “out in the open,” sitting at picnic tables. “They weren’t hiding it.”
The students at the Shabbaton were not the exception for their age group. According to interviews with several students & administrators at Modern Orthodox day schools, the practice of texting on Shabbat is becoming increasingly prevalent
“It’s a big problem,” says Rabbi Steven Burg, international director of the Orthodox Union’s NCSY youth group. Teens who text on Shabbat are an open secret in their schools & social circles, he says.
“Adults don’t know how common it is,” a student at a local yeshiva day school says. “Everyone is doing it.”
Texting on Shabbat has become a frequent subject of on-line discussions: “They are the failures of Modern Orthodoxy or they are the failures of Orthodoxy-lite.”
10:32
Here we have a guy 10:32, who sits on the internet, though his rabbanim have banned it, and is lecturing us about the MO community that has their husbands, children being moiser nefesh to Klall Yisrael by enlisting in the army !
He is lecturing us on Hashkafa while his communities live on handouts and are now freaking out because the government has finally come to its senses to take these benefits away from those freeloaders, who don't even believe that the Torah is "magin umazla" and they don't believe that the RBSH"O listens to people's davening, and they don't believe that the RBS"O provides, because we see with out very own eyes that they are not in Bais Medrish but like the whores that they are, hang out on the streets to block traffic, and their leaders are in the Knesset hoping that Humans will provide them with funds! But he lectures us!
כָּל הַמֵּשִׂים עַל לִבּוֹ שֶׁיַּעֲסֹק בַּתּוֹרָה וְלֹא יַעֲשֶׂה מְלָאכָה וְיִתְפַּרְנֵס מִן הַצְּדָקָה הֲרֵי זֶה חִלֵּל אֶת הַשֵּׁם וּבִזָּה אֶת הַתּוֹרָה וְכִבָּה מֵאוֹר הַדָּת וְגָרַם רָעָה לְעַצְמוֹ וְנָטַל חַיָּיו מִן הָעוֹלָם הַבָּא.
10:51
Thank you AI
Things have changed since this JTA article and now tens of thousands of Chareidim are leaving the communities
and I will soon post more of their "shabbatons" !
At least if they had been enlisted, they would at least have done something for their fellow Jew but that DNA is not in the Charedie communities, as their chesed is limited to their very own communities, just like the Salvation Army!
I remember that. It was called Half Shabbos. It was and is a big problem. Not just for the chilu Shabbos but for the mental damage caused by cell phone addiction.
Here's the thing - these "OTD's" were otherwise observant. Their one breach of Torah didn't lead to them dumping the whole thing and their leadership didn't announce "Either you lose the cell phones or you can go to hell"
There was a more recent article than the 2011 shtikel showing a higher percentage of mechalel Shabbos testers than just half, that disappeared when Times of Israel revamped the content from NY “Jewish Weak”. It was an interview of a Ramaz principal who lamented that 95% of the students have hashkofos that makes them heretics even according to Modern Orthodox standard. It especially irked him how they are so fiercely pro-toyeva, even the heterosexuals.
While the rest of the MO-Dati Leumi population either goes OTD even more thoroughly or comes back to their Charedi shroshim from a few doros ago, DIN & Garnel will continue wallowing in this Modern Ortho Flatulence like it’s some kind of Utopia
“Otherwise observant”??? Sheesh! A Young Israel in Queens was cheering a group of bochurim who walked for miles to a Citifield game on Shabbos. The rabbi is a fraud for this charade pretending they are goodie goodies for not driving while totally ignoring they were still mechalel Shabbos in multiple ways: carrying outside the eruv, handling muktzah, possible hachono & being mevatel the spirit of Shabbos. At the same shul the assistant rabbi gave an official shul Shabbos shiur & lunch at the “sukkah” of a not frum member that was 100% sitting under a massive tree canopy. Even if there was a Mashgiach temidi on the food (there was not), the host served treif mashkeh when the rabbi made kiddush - same rabbi thrown out of the OU for protecting a molester
Nice no more
This is the new tactic of Charedim, when shown that they are losing tens of thousands they point to the MO!
The bottom line is that Chardeie youth are fed up with their archaic minhagim and their sheer amaratzis and their hypocrisy! They want to be part of the greater Israeli society and want to help protect their country!
They realize that Charedim do not believe that Torah is magna umatzle, they don't believe that prayer helps and they do not recognize the country that supports them!
I don't blame them at all
Garn-Smell’s “chiddush” (pun intended from the title of a Reform Zionist org in Israel) of ‘just one’ mayseh of chilul Shabbos being just peachy - sounds awfully familiar - not that it ended well …
So Minhag Yisroel Torah in DIN Land is belittled as “archaic”. At least you are honest about that item, if not much else
9:11
So tell me, tzaddik, what Minhag Yisrael by Chardeim is not "archaic?"
On the other hand,You maybe actually right!
Their minhag of being freeloaders and being constantly on the receiving end is actually relatively NEW!
Going against a Rambam that states unequivocally:
כָּל הַמֵּשִׂים עַל לִבּוֹ שֶׁיַּעֲסֹק בַּתּוֹרָה וְלֹא יַעֲשֶׂה מְלָאכָה וְיִתְפַּרְנֵס מִן הַצְּדָקָה הֲרֵי זֶה חִלֵּל אֶת הַשֵּׁם וּבִזָּה אֶת הַתּוֹרָה וְכִבָּה מֵאוֹר הַדָּת וְגָרַם רָעָה לְעַצְמוֹ וְנָטַל חַיָּיו מִן הָעוֹלָם הַבָּא.
Blocking traffic and not letting through innocent people is also a new Minhag!
What's "archaic" is worshipping on Lag Be'Omer a fire and dancing around it! Believing that their Manhigim are infallible even when they lie and are wrong, calling them "Daas Torah" and then playing the victim when reasonable people call out their sheer hypocrisy!
And I may have to admit, now that I am looking into it, that these minhagim are not "archaic" at all but made up by narcissistic Roshei Yeshiva who are totally disconnected from the rest of Klall Yisrael! And nowit turns out that they themselves do not believe in the Ribbono Shel Oilim, they don't believe that Hashem has any powers, they don't think that they need to daven for what they want as Hashem doesn't listen to their prayers, and they don't believe that Hashem provides at all, hence their double dealing with Knesset Parties, first threating to bring down the government, then saying that they support the government and now again threating to bring down the government unless they get more handouts since the RBS"O is not providing for them!
They even take their leaders with walkers and drag them around the world to see if the Chutz Le'aaretz suckers will fall for their shenanigans!
Now you are backtracking & distorting the meaning of archaic which means the old items are no longer relevant - which is what you want as the outcome for Torah veloimdeha. You are also revising history. We know from the Chashmoinaim to fight sakonnos ruchniyim - Tzionim a perfect example
Fortz Fartz
Did you mention "Chashmoinaim?" LOL Ha Ha!
Get a load of this guy! This guy brings a Reiya from the "chashmonim" that left their Teira learning to put on uniforms and physically fight the Romans!
The Rambam says that we say Hallel on Chanuka because the "Chashmoinaim" established a medina and that medina lasted 150 years, and most of those years the children of the Chashmoiaim were a bunch of rapists, murderers and yet since they establishes a Jewish government, though it wasn't religious for the majority of the time, we say hallel!
Yet this dummy brings us a reia from "chashmoniam"
Hey buddy, stay away from quicksand, you may drown in your own crap!
ואין מביאין ראיה מן השוטים
The Chashmonaim in Matisyohu’s time were tzadikkim & lamdonim. They certainly wouldn’t have joined anything like a Tzahal, but they were mechuyev to fight Yevonim & Misyavnim who are like the chilonishe Tzionim waging war against Torah (bayomim haheim bizman hazeh!)
"The Chashmonaim in Matisyohu’s time were tzadikkim , " that's exactly my point ... Mir. Ponivitz and Brisk need to be drafted! And the " chilonishe Tzionim" need to quit
I agree with you!
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