Time to kill one of the biggest lies of the Century:
One of Satmar's propaganda tools comes right out of the mouths of Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran, that Israel would not exist if not for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ from the USA.
Of course they take the RBS"O out of the equation!
Facts just killed the lie.
23 comments:
Hey DIN, STOP!!! with your antisemitic hate against Satmer, yes Satmar is waiting for משיח and don't recognize the state of zionist Isreal, you can't show a single place where Satmer claims anything that you just wrote
As the Reba says "we want משיח now"
[Rabbi Yosef Yitzchak Schneersohn (the Rayatz)](https://www.google.com/search?kgmid=/m/01710v&q=send+me+a+quote+from+%D7%A8+%D7%99%D7%95%D7%A1%D7%A3+%D7%99%D7%A6%D7%97%D7%A7+from+chabad,+very+anti+Zionism), the sixth Lubavitcher Rebbe, consistently expressed strong opposition to political Zionism, viewing it as a secular movement that threatened the spiritual core of Judaism. [1, 2, 3, 4]
A prominent quote from his writings (specifically Igrot Kodesh, Vol. 4, p. 240) states:
"I am against the proposed Jewish state. It would be a calamity for the Jews, and in a short time they will realize what a calamity it is." [5, 6]
## Key Context of His Position
* The Three Oaths: Like his father before him, he based much of his opposition on the [Three Oaths](https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/146053/the-rebbe-rashab-and-the-lubavitcher-rebbes-position-on-the-three-oaths) mentioned in the Talmud, which traditionally prohibit Jews from forcibly ending their exile or rebelling against the nations of the world before the arrival of the Messiah.
* Secular vs. Religious Identity: He argued that Jewish identity is defined solely by the Torah and mitzvot. He viewed Zionism as an attempt to replace this eternal religious identity with a temporary "nationalistic" one, which he believed was [antithetical to Judaism](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/walking-a-tightrope-chabads-complicated-relationship-with-zionism-589020).
* A "Jewish" State: He maintained that a state run on secular principles rather than Halacha (Jewish Law) could not truly be considered a Jewish entity in the religious sense.
* Spiritual Calamity: He frequently warned that the establishment of a state by human hands rather than Divine intervention would lead to spiritual and physical danger for the Jewish people. [1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8]
[1] [https://www.ynetnews.com](https://www.ynetnews.com/jewish-world/article/ryiwn5cva)
[2] [https://www.youtube.com](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF6jLtuT538&t=71)
[3] [https://www.youtube.com](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu_oFoYBraU)
[4] [https://www.instagram.com](https://www.instagram.com/reel/DSsHSqIjT6O/#:~:text=ADVANCING%20CHABAD%20CHASSIDUS%20IN%20EASTERN%20EUROPE%2C%20THE,Sixth%20Lubavitcher%20Rebbe%2C%20Rabbi%20Yosef%20Yitzchak%20Schneersohn.)
[5] [https://judaism.stackexchange.com](https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/142468/what-was-the-lubavitcher-rebbes-position-on-zionism)
[6] [https://judaism.stackexchange.com](https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/142468/what-was-the-lubavitcher-rebbes-position-on-zionism)
[7] [https://judaism.stackexchange.com](https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/146053/the-rebbe-rashab-and-the-lubavitcher-rebbes-position-on-the-three-oaths)
[8] [https://www.jpost.com](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/walking-a-tightrope-chabads-complicated-relationship-with-zionism-589020)
Naftuli
I guess you don't read "Der Goy" if you did, you would see that they keep saying that Israel's economy would collapse if it wasn't for the US.
Meanwhile Israel even during this war has one of the best economies in the world and the shekel is much stronger than the dollar and other currencies!
Stop covering for the Romanian gypsies!
Naftuli
Didn't the Rayatz pass away in 1950?
There were 1 million, 200 thousand Jews living in Israel in 1950!
It is now 2026, and the estimate now is over 8 million Jews living in the Zionist state.
What the Shitah of the Rayatz was is totally irrelevant!
You post that his irrelevant position was based on the three oaths, also irrelevant!
Not one Jew was present during the 4 Oaths, Not one Jew knows where these oaths took place or when it took place!
The 3 oaths that the Rayatz based his irrelevant position is not mentioned in the entire Shulchan Aruch or anywhere in the Mishna Torah!
His views on Zionism, which he made in the 40's is no longer relevant as this fight with Zionism was over 75 years ago, for you to keep repeating this irrelevant history doesn't change a thing!
Meanwhile, the Rayatz's own Chassidim totally ignored him and his 3v oaths and built a city, Kfar Chabad, in the Zionist State of Israel!
His quote that :"I am against the proposed Jewish state. It would be a calamity for the Jews, and in a short time they will realize what a calamity it is." "is laughable, as the Zionist State has one of the best economies in the world, and now you see the best army!
It also has the most Moisdois HaTorah than anywhere in the world!
Naftuli
99.999999% of all Jews have never heard of the Rayatz! Who cares what he thought or said, and all the links that you posted prove that he was wrong, not one thing that he said makes any sense!
Naftuli
I don't get it. Why would you quote the views of the Rayatz that have been proven wrong?
Why would you want the Rebbe Rayatz to be mocked and ridiculed?
Do you hate Chabad so much?
With your comments, you caused a Chillul Hashem! Shame on You!
Naftuli
So far, every one of the Rayatz's statements has not come to fruition.
His statement that you brought down:
"that the establishment of a state by human hands rather than Divine intervention would lead to spiritual and physical danger for the Jewish people."
has proven to be outright false; in fact, the opposite is true, the establishment of the State of Israel by "human hands" is now the home of the majority of the Jewish people.
If you were to tell me that it may still happen, well then, anyone can make a prediction and then, when it doesn't come true, say "well, it may still happen." How does that prove anything?
So far their isn't any "spiritual danger" to the Jewish people in Israel; in fact, the assimilation in Israel is less than 1% as opposed to the USA where the Rayatz made his prediction has an assimilation rate of over 85%.
As far as "physical danger" that statement is very questionable because Jews living in Israel feel safer than any Jew living in New York . Just ask any Jew living in Israe, and ask them now, while there is a war.
Naftuli
So crazy, you quote from the Rayatz a chassidis that worships a dead rabbi. Naftuli go dig some tunnels.
BTW I am not CHABAD, ,,, I suspect DIN is, look at this link for a clearer explanation.
You don't have to agree, but you can hear
https://www.truetorahjews.org/
Satmar’s disgusting hate of The State of Israel goes way beyond. Explain the following, stomach-turning drivel:
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/182507
Satmar Rebbe Says Murdered Teens' Parents 'Guilty'
Shockwave in Jewish, hareidi world as a hassidic leader blames Frenkel, Sha'ar, Yifrah parents for 'living among known murderers.'
The parents of Naftali Frenkel (16), Gilad Sha'ar (16) and Eyal Yifrah (19) caused the deaths of their sons and they must repent for their actions," according to Teitelbaum.
Or THIS stupid propaganda:
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4776541,00.html
Satmar Rebbe: Settlers causing terrorism
Rabbi Aharon Teitelbaum visits Israel and rails against settlers and ultra-Orthodox recruits who join the IDF.
As terror attacks continue to strike Israel, Rabbi Aaron Teitelbaum said on Tuesday that "the real culprits are the settlers in Israel who agitate the nations of the world in the country and throughout the world, which causes serious hatred of Israel and the severe wave of attacks."
Naftuli
I know that you are not Chabad from your previous insane comments.
You are probably a Baal Tesuvah whose parents were bar-b-q hamburgers when my grandparents were being shoved into the ovens.
"torahtruejews" is a website run and financed by the Neturei Karta that embraced the murderous Iranian leaders.
That site is NOT Torah and isn't True, most of those statements are Hamas talking points, for you to refer my readers to that vile site, during war time when the majority of the Jewish people are running to shelters, shows that not only don't you have empathy but your utter hate and contempt of Zionists that built a beautiful country with the RBS"O's help means nothing to you as long as your can continue promoting your insane thoughts!
Now back to your Rayatz ..... for you to quote an unknown rabbi (outside of Chabad) that made those anti-Zionist remarks while millions of Jews were being gassed shows that the Rayatz was totally disconnected with reality.
Had the Rabbi Rayatz embraced the established Jewish State like Rav Henkin and many other Gedoilim than maybe Moshiach would have come then, but instead Rabbis like the Rayatz and the Satmar Rebbe divided the Jewish people with their hateful rhetoric making it very hard for Moshiach to come, and maybe just maybe that is the reason that the Rayatz chassidim instead embraced a dead Moshiach!
I am FFB, my grandparents were gassed in Auschwitz, my mother was in Auschwitz, my father was an underground fighter during the holocaust, my uncle was a general during the the 1948 war, plus many of my family served in high ranks, I am against Neturei Karta they're. RODFIM, and when younger sometimes joined meir kahana and was active the struggle for the freedom of the Soviet jews,
Still
(1) we are not allowed to have a state before the coming of משיח
(2) the government of Isreal are anti חרדים and are rodfim
Hey DIN , tell us about yourself
Naftuli
Those following this blog know my background. My father z"l was a talmid of R' Yoilish the Satmar Rav. My father lost his wife and children in the war, and my mother survived two Concentration camps and a death march, they met in the DP camps in Germany. I was born in the States and attended Chassidshe Yeshivois then Mattesdorf! I grew up in Brooklyn amongst Survivors, all of them no matter the background, were supporters of the State of Israel. Your assertion that there cannot be a State until Moshiach, is all made up, doesn't say that anywhere until the Satmar Rav who actually made Aliya and intended to live there wrote it into his seforim! the fact is that we have a State and most of the Gedolim accepted this post facto ! If you open a Tanach you will see that practically all Jewish governments were run by not frum leaders. The Rambam, in fact, states that one of the reasons we say Hallel on Chanuka is that we regained Jewish sovereignty. Keep in mind that this sovereignty lasted barely 150 years, and the majority of those years were run by the Children of the Maccabees, who were more or less a bunch of murderers and gangsters, yet because we had Jewish sovereignty, we say Hallel! Your obsession with the 3 oaths has no relevance in the here and now, we were invited by the Balfour Declaration!, no one went UP by force, yes once we were here in Israel, we fought the British Murderers ym"s who supported the Arab rapists and the Mufti! there is no point in going back and forth with you since on one hand you say that the NK are "roidfim" yet you tried steering my readers to a website run by NK!
You quoted extensively from the Rayatz yet you say that you are not Chabad! You steer people to the vile NK website yet you say they are "roidfim"
you make no sense but you have everything in common with the NK and the leftists in Israel, the only difference is that you wouldn't embrace the Iranian murderers, other than that you see eye to eye with those liars and haters of the Jewish State!
Naftuli
Being "Anti-Charedie" doesn't make anyone a "rodef"; that is a bald-faced lie and a very dangerous statement. Are you saying that one can go out and kill a "Anti-Charedie?" Because one can actually kill a" rodef" halachically!
Another lie is your statement, "we are not allowed to have a state before the coming of משיח"
Can you please tell us who says that?
Because I'ts not in the Torah or in Tanach or in the entire Shas Bavli or Yerushalmi, nor is it in the Rishonim or Achronim for that matter!
Some later Rabbis in the 30's and 40's that were against Zionists made it up with no halachic basis at all! Many of those Rabbis were murdered in the Holocaust!
Those that survived actually accepted the State, such as the Gerer, Belzer, Klozinberger, Steipler, Aryeh Levine and hundreds others!
Repeating lies will not make it true!
Naftuli
It's very hard to believe that this is your background. Like DIn I grew up surrounded by survivors but in Williamsburg, no less. I never met even a Satmar survivor who was against the State.I remember that the Rebbe panicked in 1967 when most of the survivors were celebrating the miracles of the 67 war, and the Rebbe quickly appointed R Yossel Ashkenazi to publish the "Al Hagilah" to contain the excitement of the survivors and he feared that his entire chassidus would fall apart. Hence the publication of his book that has since been taken apart by many scholars such as Harav M. Kasher, Rav Aviner!
The Rebbe had a guilty complex because he wrongly advised his followers in the 40's not to leave Romania and Hungary, causing their horrible deaths. He also had a guilty complex since it was a Zionist who actually saved his life. God was works mysteriously, and must have a sense of humor
Bravo!
Thank you for pointing out the hypocrisy.
Here is the best explanation I’ve found, of Chabad’s conflicted relationship with The State of Israel. In a nutshell: the position HAS changed from 75 years ago, unofficially.
https://www.ynetnews.com/jewish-world/article/ryiwn5cva
ברוך הוא בישראל שפזרן לבין האומות" (A kindness did the Holy One, Blessed be He, for Israel by scattering them among the nations) is found in the Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Pesachim 87b.
+1
Background and Context
The Verse: The Talmud learns this from the verse in Judges 5:11: "צִדְקוֹת פִּרְזוֹנוֹ בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל" ("the righteous acts of His leadership/scattering in Israel").
The Explanation: Rashi explains that this was a "charity" (kindness) because since they are scattered, if a decree is issued to destroy them in one land, those in other lands will remain safe and the nation cannot be completely wiped out.
Now the zionist put 1/2 of klal Yisroel in to 1bomb country
השם ירחם
By the way I grew up chasdish, still am
And willing all my life to save another yid with my own life
Naftuli
I am skeptical of your story! There is no way that a yid would talk such שטיתים והבלים whose grandparents were murdered in the Holocaust! No Way!
There is no way that someone with grandparents murdered in the Holocaust would steer Jews to a Neturei Karta website, even though you say that are "roidfim"
You are referring Jews to a website that is dripping of vile hate and is a cesspool of anti-Zionist propaganda!
I would ask you, if your grandparents had had a choice to come to an established Zionist State of Israel or be gassed, would you think that they would reject coming to the Zionist entity because, as you put it "its against the Torah to have a State till Moshiach comes?"
If your answer is that they would, of course, have come to Israel and live, then you are a hypocrite.
Because you are in fact saying that your own very grandparents would have chosen to live in a Zionist country that, according to your sick logic, is prohibited until Moshiach comes!
To say that
"the zionist put 1/2 of klal Yisroel in to 1bomb country" shows that not only are you a liar but a dummy!
I live in Israel, no one "put me" in Israel no one forced me to come here and I'll bet none of the 8 million now living in Israel, including Satmar, were forced to come here, everyone here is here voluntarily and the latest poll taken by Netherland just two weeks ago found that the residents of Israel even now during the war are from the five happiest countries in the entire world ..
Who, except for a Chassidishe Shvantz would come up with this outrageous, dumb, idiotic statement?
If you are indeed Chassidish I would say that you were indoctrinated by Satmar propaganda and lies, as I am familiar with the culture very, very well.
And your statement that Jews living in Israel "were put in a bomb country" are the very words of the מרגלים
Don't forget that the Torah goes out of it's way to tell us that the מרגלים were the גדולי הדר
אֶ֚פֶס כִּֽי־עַ֣ז הָעָ֔ם הַיֹּשֵׁ֖ב בָּאָ֑רֶץ וְהֶֽעָרִ֗ים בְּצֻר֤וֹת גְּדֹלֹת֙ מְאֹ֔ד וְגַם־יְלִדֵ֥י הָֽעֲנָ֖ק רָאִ֥ינוּ שָֽׁם׃
עֲמָלֵ֥ק יוֹשֵׁ֖ב בְּאֶ֣רֶץ הַנֶּ֑גֶב וְ֠הַֽחִתִּ֠י וְהַיְבוּסִ֤י וְהָֽאֱמֹרִי֙ יוֹשֵׁ֣ב בָּהָ֔ר וְהַֽכְּנַעֲנִי֙ יוֹשֵׁ֣ב עַל־הַיָּ֔ם וְעַ֖ל יַ֥ד הַיַּרְדֵּֽן׃
My grandparents were murdered by the Nazis ימ"ש,
my father before the war had the opportunity to go Israel and knew about the killing of jews going on and refused to go and rather stay and fought the Nazis and saving jews,
My mother after the holocaust refused to go to Israel and join her brother who was high ranking in צה"ל
I put the link, but I also said loud and clear that I hold NK as rodfim,
Let you reader's see it,
Yes the zionist movement convinced yiden to go to Israel
Calling me "Chassidishe Shvantz" is a honor, the rest of the insults, show your lack of,,,,
Putting yiden in a 1 bomb country is the words of Steve without
But I posted the words of חז"ל were it says צדקה עשה ד לישראל שפיזרו בין האומות
I guess you ignored this one,
I like your style but reject your ציוני השקפה
But please let's not insult one the other.
Naftuli
Yes you are a Shvantz, and you yourself will agree with me that you are one!
The Chazal you quoted:
"צדקה עשה ד לישראל שפיזרו בין האומות
Is Mamash the key that you don't have an idea of what you are talking about!
Yes! The RbS"O that spread us out, but the same RBS"O that "spread us out" established the State of Israel in 1948 so that Jews finally have a home after 2,000 years and come home!
In fact Hitler never touched a Jew in Israel! The Jews murdered were Jews living outside of Israel! The RBS"O wanted Eretz Yisrael not to be contaminated by Nazis!
Everyone now agree that Jews living in England and France are finished and if they don't leave soon they will have the same fate as the Jews living now in Iran, who had an opportunity to leave but chose to stay!
I see with my own eyes here in Beit Shemesh hundreds of frum families from England and France that just recently fled these cursed countries!
Anyone who studied the history of the Jews in Germany in the 1930s knows that the deterioration of the matzav of the Jews in the USA is deteriorating a lot faster than in Germany in 1938.
Jews have less than a decade in the US, and after Trump, its all over, and where will you run..Naftuli??
You will run faster than a coyote chased by a bear to the Zionist State of Israel!
Your mother refused to go to Israel??? She is a very foolish lady; at least your father had an excuse. I now see where your hatred of the State is coming from!
The Zionists convinced no one to come to Israel; this statement doesn't even make any sense, the State at the time was very poor and conditions were terrible, yet people, unlike your parents, who saw what their goyishe neighbors did to them for centuries, had had enough and chose to go to our their own country with its own army and fight!
Your father chose to fight but you and your warped hashkafa look down on Jews fighting in a Jewish country!
Your father should have come to Israel and fought for our own sovereignty!
And what I'm understanding is that you are implying that had your grandparents, who were murdered in the Holocaust have been given the chance to live in a Zionist State would still have chosen to go into the gas chambers?? That is very, very sick!
I am now doubting whether your family is from זרע ישראל!
If you read Esther Farbstein's Book on the Holocaust, "Hidden in the Depths" she has hundreds of last-minute messages that parents, before being murdered, told their children, "should you survive, go to Eretz Yisrael" or "don't ever forget that we belong in Eretz Yisrael."
Yet you are telling me that your murdered grandparents would have preferred death over living in a Zionist State! Not only that, but your own parents refused to make Aliyah, and planted this hate into their children!
Now they have a son who steers Jews to a NK hate site , that Hamas and Hezbollah quote from! To feel better you call the very people with your same hashkafas about Zionism "roidfim"
This is a typical Satmar lie, they say..."Well the Satmar Rebbe dissociated from NK"
That's like saying Hezbollah dissociates from Hamas, because even though they have similar goals, their tactics are different!
Satmar and Neturei Karta are from the same exact cloth, in fact NK quotes from the Vayoel Moshe all the time. Until 10 years ago NK children were all educated in Satmar Moisdois!
There is no difference between the two hashkafois only in tactics!
A Shvantz,,,Indeed!
Summarizing Naftuli
1. He said that those who are anti-Chardeie are "roidfim" which means that close to 13 million Jews are "roidfim" that according to Naftuli you are allowed to kill, yet in the very same comment, he says " willing all my life to save another yid with my own life"
2. He is ready to "save another yid" yet, he steers Jews to a NK antisemitic website that Hamas and Hezbollah quote from!
3. He stated that his grandparents were murdered in the Holocaust yet if given the choice of being murdered or living in the Zionist State of Israel, he believes that they would have chosen death. We are talking about the only Jewish State in the entire world and the home of the majority of the Jewish people, and the home of the most Gedoiei Yisrael, yet his grandparents wouldn't want to live with the Chazon Ish, the Steipler, The Gerer Rebbe, the Belzer rebbe, the Kloizenberger, they would rather be gassed to death!
3. He says that Jews are not allowed to have a State until Moshiach comes, something that someone made up, and isn't in the entire Tanach or Talmud Bavli, Yerushalmie, Rishonim or Achronim!
4. He claims that the Zionists convinced Jews to make Aliya after WW2, which is an insane, the country was in bad shape after the 1948 war. Yes, they ASKED Jews to make Aliyah, of course, but "CONVINCE?"
99.95 of all Jews live in the State because that is where they want to be.
We are at war now, with ballistic missiles raining down on us, and yet Jews are trying to come back to Israel. 50 families made Aliyah just last week, no one is being "convinced," the RBS"O already "convinced" us 3,500 years ago, except Naftuli and his parents never got the message!
5. Naftuli quotes extensively from the Rebbe Rayatz but says that he is not Chabad, let me remind people that the Rebbe Rayatz's chassidim now worship a dead rabbi!
The most famous quote from the Rayatz is:
"that the establishment of a state by human hands rather than Divine intervention would lead to spiritual and physical danger for the Jewish people."
Anyone who has eyes knows that that prediction is a joke, the State of Israel was built by human hands, and is now the most "spiritual" country in the world. And yes, we have a Jewish Army that experiences "Divine Intervention" witnessing miracles every single second!
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