The following Q&A appeared in FJJ (Flatbush Jewish Journal this past week, titled "Ask the Flatbush Shadchan."
A guy is on a "shidduch" date, and instead of the girl asking him if he is going to learn his entire life, or if he is ever going to work for a living, she wants to know what "sugye" he is learning and why he is learning that particular "sugye."
Am I missing something?
Marriage Partners Or Chavrusas
DEAR MRS. ROSE,
Our son just went out with his first girl. Naturally, we did our homework and everything checked out to our satisfaction. We would be delighted if this would be his “bashert.” So what’s the issue? Here goes… he went out on a second date after a very promising first date. The girl spent most of the date questioning him about his learning. What he is learning, where, (what sugya), why he is learning that particular inyan etc. It was obvious from the questions she asked that she did not have any understanding, not even elementary knowledge about “learning”. My son felt that there was no point in him being grilled by someone who doesn’t really “chap the inyan” It’s almost insulting! Even if she would have “chapped the inyan”, isn’t she overstepping her boundaries? It was only a second date, our son didn’t grill her about her schooling (not to say that he would have even begun to know what to ask her about her OT, PT, special ed choices). We have heard from other parents of boys in shidduchim that they have encountered similar scenarios. Are they being taught to ask these questions in Seminary? Do you think this makes any sense?
Confused Mother of An Up and Coming Star Learner Just Looking for A Wife
DEAR CONFUSED MOTHER,
Whoa! What an experience your son must have had!
Usually, the zooming- in question is about “Hashkafos”. Usually discussed at about date 3 to 4, usually initiated by the boy. This is a new one on me! I really think you’ve picked out a one in a million girl. Clearly, dating is about gradually getting to know a person’s qualities, strengths, direction in life etc. It should be a pleasant experience, not an interview and certainly not an interrogation. When people are put on the spot they tend to shut down and feel overwhelmed and negative feelings surface. Our seminaries teach respect for learning, love of learning, kovod habrios. They are not preparing our girls to be “chavrusas”. Most boys are looking for a wife, not a chavrusa and certainly not a “mashgiach”. This doesn’t make any sense to me, but given that the first date seemed to be great, there is potential here. I would love to be a fly on the wall and be able to see what REALLY transpired on the date. Certainly, do not drop the girl based on that scenario, (unless he didn’t pass her interrogation, and she needs something else, and therefore she’ll say no). Keep me posted, would love to hear how this plays itself out. At the end of the day, Bashert will prevail!
Chana Rose
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8 comments:
Nothing wrong with that girl's questions.
She'll work to make a Parnosso, she'll run the house and raise the kids.
He'll have a good time in Kollel.
She might as well know what she is multi-tasking for.
At one point she might even ask for the translation of the words "Va'ani eflach" in the Nussach of her Kesubah.
Then the mother of the boy will really flip.
Mrs Rose is a stuck up, nasty woman, not to everyone, but to enough that she doesn't belong in shadchonus.
I learned in the right yeshivos including Lakewood. I was considered a baal middos, baal kishron, geshmak, good looking & a higher end dresser. She gave me all kinds of sneers & rude put downs when I met her. Then she disqualifies me period. Her thinking was so warped that people were disgusted and shocked. She made a "case" comparing me to some schmo that I'm not as good as him, as "yeshivish" as him. The guy was not a learner, had no personality and was not considered good looking. Is she completely nuts? That other guy has zero shaychus to yeshivishkeit. He doesn't even try, with his gray hat & all. She had no interest in hearing her information is completely incorrect. She just holds her snout up higher with added sneering.
As far as that girl in special ed who farhers bochurim, there is a girl who is infamous for it who someone else redt to me. After I went out & experienced it, an adam gadol who knows the mishpocho well, rolled his eyes, telling me he knows all about her & her tzedreite mother. He said the girl is nebich confused so I should dump her. When I asked a shrink who is their neighbor he said the farhering shtams from a larger problem which would take 5 years of intensive therapy to rid her of.
Mrs Rose, zip your yapper & get off the pages of Mehlman's paper because you don't know your fat head from your fat derriere! From all the yentas I dealt with you were one of the worst & one of the most hurtful. There is more than one reason why R' Dovid Soloveitchik calls people like you roitzchim.
There was a secret Fresser meeting at TU which it's surprising that Pinny Lipschitz let the cat out of the bag about it in the Aug. 28th Yated.
They ordered all yeshivos & Bais Yaakovs to bdavka make remote learning difficult & very not user friendly as a way to strong arm all kids back into the classroom to get infected with little to zero CDC guidelines in place. These murderous bastards are also trying to force immunodeficient children back in. If the kids' yeshivos themselves are not ordering the kids back, the Fressers are using proxies to apply extreme pressure on the mishpochos.
A question posed to the Chinuch Roundtable on page 84 hints to this. Still, most of these Fresser affiliated roshei mosdos on the Roundtable are opposed to the secretly hatched Fresser scheme. Even establishment guys like Bender are opposed because he knows his rich baal habatim will dethrone him if he dares go along with it. One schmo is in favor of the Fresser scheme because he's just a lowly rebbi who is afraid of the Fressers obstructing his shteller ladder climbing. A nobody from yehupitz is also backing the Fressers, probably because his shvogger controls a major yeshiva system and has suddenly become a crazed devotee of the Fresser scheme. The 3rd & final backer is a TU official who would be committing suicide if he opposed the scheme, so he arrogantly huffs that this is what the Fressers have decided is in your best interest.
This Yated edition also has an ad spanning MANY pages touting (what was then) the upcoming Agudah shnorrfest. In order to induce you to empty your pockets into their coffers, they shamelessly created a bogus timeline of how they were on top of the pandemic throughout to be matzil as many neshomos as possible. These sickos have consistently been planting these lies everywhere to protect Philly after the virus body count blew up in their bloody faces thanks to their akshening to keep mesibos Purim, yeshivos & shuls going - which they now deny. Here they go deja vu with the yeshivos!
this reminds me of a very funny quote by reb Yankle Miller (the badchan),"the perfect shidduch is when a boy from The Mir marries a girl from Gateshead,she knows how to learn and he knows how to cook.(boys in the Mir in their own dira cook for themselves)
I applaud this girl for asking him about his learning. If she's looking to support a guy in learning wouldn't she want to see how passionate he is for Torah?
I have to tell you over the years, when I see bochurim back for bein hazemanin I ask them where they learnt and if they could share with me me a shtikel Torah, they look at me like I have two heads. Either they think I am farhering them which I am not or I want to catch them on what they have to say. Neither is the truth. I have to say almost all of them look confused and have nothing to say. Something is very wrong here. If they are passionate in Torah there mouth should flow in Torah. I have a feeling the bochur in this story is the same like the rest. The girl has a right to ask. If the boy knows the sugya he should explain it and be passionate it to teach her.
The attack on them from the real gedolim is much more teef than first glance:
וַיִּשְׂכֹּר בָּהֶם אֲבִימֶלֶךְ אֲנָשִׁים רֵיקִים וּפֹחֲזִים וַיֵּלְכוּ אַחֲרָיו שופטים ט, ד
נְבִיאֶיהָ פֹּחֲזִים אַנְשֵׁי בֹּגְדוֹת כֹּהֲנֶיהָ חִלְּלוּ-קֹדֶשׁ חָמְסוּ תּוֹרָה צפניה ג, ד
These empty men who are poichazim, which can be translated as reckless swashbucklers, a fancy way of saying they are kalei daas (various Rishonim)
These empty ones: devoid of ANY maylah (Metzudos Tzion Shoftim)
Poichazim: lacking wisdom (Rashi Shoftim)
They are very low class peasants & they disgrace Hashem with their behavior (Radak Shoftim)
[UOJ was mechaven to the Radak when curling up from aversion to their Fressing hanhogos at the Conventions!]
They are liars (Targum Tzfanya)
They act frum while personally being oyver on all kinds of sins (Radak Tzfanya)
Their evils are chilul Shem Shomayim befarhesya. They posken halachos falsely & they are chamsonim after people's gelt. (Ibn Ezra Tzfanya)
Think the Philly mamzerus scandal that they were paid handsomely for and financial chicanery related to the pandemic shutdowns.
You don't even have to make a limud for this because the Malbim on Tzfanya says the posuk is talking about niuf which of course is the required act for mamzerus!
https://www.thirteen.org/blog-post/kiryas-joel-monroe-annex-dispute/
https://www.bxtimes.com/bronx-mans-lawsuit-alleges-multiple-incidents-of-sexual-abuse-at-sar-academy-in-riverdale/
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