According to this account, R’ Chaim z”l was linked to a tragic outcome involving four children.
A woman from Bnei Brak struggled for years to conceive. After much hardship, tears, and medical intervention, she finally became pregnant with quadruplets. The doctors advised her to reduce the pregnancy by aborting one fetus, explaining that this would strengthen the chances of survival for the remaining three.
The woman recalls seeking guidance from Rav Chaim, who told her not to proceed with the abortion, assuring her that all four would be born healthy. Sadly, the opposite occurred: all four babies died, leaving her childless for the rest of her life.
Stories like this are rarely publicized; instead, the community tends to highlight only the successful outcomes.
The lesson is clear: people should place their trust in the Creator, rather than in human figures who, despite their stature, are fallible and limited in knowledge.
25 comments:
A classical strongman argument if I ever saw one!!
Nobody in this race mind ever thought or claims that guidance and blessings from Great Men is a stand-in for God or that it's infallible!?!
1. Create a straw man, that the Chareidi public believe there leaders are infallible.
2. Find a case where it didn't work, preferably one where the outcome is very pitiful.
3. Insinuate that if they had only follow the doctor's suggestion, everything would be Utopia.
4. Now move on and expand the argument that it's all one big Mafia.
> The lesson is clear: people should place their trust in the Creator, rather than in human figures who, despite their stature, are fallible and limited in knowledge.
Okay, but I could twist that around and say that the women did do that: Instead of relying on fallible doctors, she relied on the word of God as transmitted by Rav Chaim, z"l.
Dear DIN.
I enjoy reading your blog, many of your post do resonate with me, some less but I still like to listen to another opinion even if I don't fully agree.
I wasn't familiar with Rav Gotlib - you introduced him to me.
Many of his videos are בגדר "preaching to the choir" to me.
I got curious and watched some more of them on Instagram.
And honestly I was shocked on some of the things he said.
He talks about תחית המתים not being כפשוטו !
That goes against the rambam it is simply כפירה in chazal.
He claims it is impossible that dead bodies will be rejuvenated.
It really shocked me and I will not listen to rav gotlib anymore.
Let me know what you think.
I dont always agree with Rav Gotlib but he is a breath of fresh air, having said that, there isn't a consensus of what exactly is תחית המתים!
I would refer you to Rabbi Breitowitz on Youtube he has a segment on it if you need further clarification!
Not all Rishonim agree with the Rambam's 13 ani-maamins!
This is really too complicated for this venue, but I'm just telling you that it is not pashut, and anyone disagreeing with the Rambam does not make him an apikoras!
Most of the Gedoilim in the Rambam's generation disagreed with him on many issues, including the Rabbeinu Yona (Who later retracted) in fact, they burned his seforim in a public place!
Again, the concept of תחית המתים and לעתיד לבוא and Days of Moshiach are very vague; which one will happen first and which will happen last. There are Rishonim that hold that תחית המתים will only be temporary and then there will be עתיד לבוא while others hold the reverse ...
I think that there isn't a clear consensus on that so you can choose not to listen to him, but it shouldn't be on his view of תחית המתים!
Our world is not locked up inside the borders of Bne Brak. At critical points in life, the vast majority of Yidden DO need guidance from a ruv, or from a rebetzen, from a Dayan, a rosh yeshiva, a more tzedek... etc. who have a human life experience that none of us has, and this not an easy job.
In this video, Reb Gotlib just goes blatantly against the chiuv and the mitzvas assei of "Assei lecha Rav".
Zako
With all due respect to you, Rabbi Gotlib is saying that if you have a doctor's opinion and a Rabbi's Opinion, listen to the professional and that has nothing to do with the MItzvah of "Assei lecha Rav".
"Assei lecha Rav". means in Torah learning, psak din and to be a moreh derech , it doesn't mean to ask a rav which brand of "toilet paper" to buy!
Her question to Rav Chaim should have been "Is it halachically permitted to have an abortion in a case like this where one child is a :"Rodef" according to the medical professionals, and he should have answered either to the affirmative or negative ...not ...
""All children will be born healthy." that is not part of "Assei lecha Rav".and he and any other Rav don't really know that!
You took this wrong, no one is bashing Rav Chaim z"l
Whathe is saying is that in a case like this ask for a Halachic decision and then pray to Hashem!
If anyone has the clip he's referring to pls post it
I hear you.
I guess I am not so familiar with the different opinion.
I have a tremendous respect for Rabbi Breitowitz- I listen to his Q&A frequently.
Will look it up bez"h
So... The "story" about R' Chaim Kaniewski that "Chareidim hide" ??
Call me conspirationist, call me whatever you like, but just prove me wrong:
1. Reb Chaim never asked to be the Gogol Hador. All he wanted to do is to sit & learn, but a well-organised mafia prevented him to do so (and made for themselves good solid bucks).
2. Which "chareidim" are "hiding" something: Chareidim from upper Rabbi Akiva St. ? Or from Aharonowitz St. ?
3. The lady told this story, ok. Can Reb Chaïm confirm that he ever spoke to her and/or to her husband ? No.
4. No one forced her to seek advice from Reb Chaim.
5. No one forced her to follow Reb Chaïm's advice (if he ever was part of this story).
6. No one forced her to ignore the doctor's protocol.
7. No one knows what would have happend if she had gone to seek advice from another Godol.
8. No one knows what would have happened if she didn't seek any advice or daas toire at all.
9. No one knows what would have happend if she had accepted the doctor's process.
10. No one knows what would have happened if the doctors did remove one baby: the outcome could have been identical.
11. Hard to say, but with or without rabonim, gedoilim, brochos & daas toire, with or without medical treatments, with or without bitachon, hishtadlus, with or without radars, drones, satellites, AI and supersonic balistic missiles, the Boire Oilem is the only One deciding who has children and who doesn't.
12. Reb Chaïm only wanted to sit & learn. He never asked to be part of this post-mortem fake controversy against which he cannot defend himself anymore.
Although this mayselah serves DIN’s agenda to belittle Charedim, we don’t know all the facts here. Was this after RCK lost his mind & was being stage managed as a prop by Yankela?
The hebrew caption on this Instargram video says:
"Harav Chaim Kaniewski garam lemotam shel arba ubarim"
"Harav Chaim Kaniewski provoked the death of four fetuses (or embryos)"
Whoever wrote this insane disgusting pathetic abomination (now visionable on the net across the 5 continents) won't have enough of a lifetime to start the first part of the first scratch of the begining of the kapore process for having said that. No one on earth can help him with any form of mechila, as Reb Chaïm is not with us anymore.
Before I begin, I would like to point out that I am hardly a “chosid” of Rav Kanievsky. As a matter of fact, I had an encounter with him that left me somewhat disappointed.
Having said that, I am skeptical of many assertions made on social media. I am doubtful that all the “mofsim” attributed to the “Gedolim” actually occurred as related. But I also disbelieve all the negative criticism directed against these Rabbis as well.
In this case how do we even know that there ever was a woman carrying multiple fetuses who approached Rav Kanievsky? What was this woman’s name? How do know what Rav Kanievsky advised? Who witnessed this? How do we know that none of the fetuses survived? Unless every detail is verified it’s just another conspiracy theory unworthy of our attention.
It reminds me of the anecdote where someone approaches his friend telling him that he heard that he earned $50,000 by investing in a certain stock. His friend replied that there were a few inaccuracies in this tale. First of all, it didn’t happen to him but to his brother -in-law. Secondly, it wasn’t $50,000; it was closer to $10,000. Third of all, he didn’t earn the money on the investment; he lost the money.
Likewise, there is no reason why I should believe this story about Rav Kanievsky.
Zako
" the Boire Oilem is the only One deciding who has children and who doesn't."
That is exactly what Rav Gotlib said so you are basically agreeing with him!
8:38
Where did you get that from that
" No one on earth can help him with any form of mechila, as Reb Chaïm is not with us anymore."
We frum Jews believe that there is Teshuva for everything, having said that I don't think that his lady will ever forgive Rav Chaim z"l
Cyrano
The lesson from this story true or not is that ultimately Jews have been given the power of prayer and should develop their own relationship with HKB"O and deal directly with Him!
I know plenty of stories of people taking advice from their Rebbe or Rosh Yeshiva, and it resulted in disastrous results.
I know a particular rebbe who advised a chusid not to have an operation, and the fool followed his advice against the advice of his doctors, and he died within a month! Maybe he would have died anyway, but asking a Rebbe for medical advice is sick!
https://www.amazon.ca/Limits-Orthodox-Theology-Maimonides-Reappraised/dp/B00FBQVMY6/ref=sr_1_4?crid=N8U1KIALN2LF&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.lC9XTm_NqFwm0cnXjTTojws5HUrLBFEN_5BQpJZ2wIbcwPlAGXQL3Fyb7lLJf6tlU07ej-4s9b0UfKYLxkYzl1gaoIpZHBLPqVwnJzIGWP8.3hfdZ623qapCoJDwyyw7NctGdt1nsEch8pS9DHqAYqc&dib_tag=se&keywords=limits+of+orthodoxy+theology&qid=1764284760&sprefix=limits+of+orthodoxy+theology%2Caps%2C83&sr=8-4
CMON DIN im suprised by this article the entire shas GEMARA is full of stories of people goig to brachos to big tzadikim, rac chaim never guaranteed anything unlike so many mekubalim and frauds, im suprise at u as rav Chaim was perhaps only godol in last 100 years thatall Jews from all different backgrounds accepted and he ne couldnt be bought with money , even the richest man in world wouldnt be able to buy rav chaim, there are so many so called frum rabbis who are all about money, u should be scared to to bash rav chaim, of course its true we should alays daven to our creator and I like ur point that this generation should be davening and believing more in their creator but if u dont believe in seeking brachos from tzadikim then ur a KOIFAR and perhaps a TZADUKEE LOL.TRY TO FIND ANY NEGATIVE stories about rav chaim? I guess u tried hard.I enjoy ur content because u think out of box and tell truth but Rav chaim was so unique and so big and hav never selfish motives, Hashem blessed avrum BAKOL one pshat means that was the blessing he didnt get a daughter not everytime does hashem give us everything we want and that perhaps might be a blessing, we cant fathom Hashems cheshbonos .
Ben
Reread your own post!
The keyword is "brachos " yes, going to a Rav for a Bracha is what people should do, but that is not related at all to this story, she went for advice and she got very bad advice!
I went plenty to Rav Chaim z"l and I could tell you horror stories that I witnessed with my own eyes, especially two years before he was niftar!
No one is looking to "TRY TO FIND NEGATIVE stories about rav chaim"
The stories from the last few years of his life is spilling out by the thousands only because of the greed of those running his house.
The ones who are "koifrim" were his grandchildren who, for their own selfish motives, built an aura around him even though he was no longer capable!
You should be giving mussar to those charlatans and not to the innocent people who went there only to get burnt!
והמבין יבון
Ben
Please don't lecture us; you are gaslighting and no one is being fooled.
The word that you used in your comment, "Hashem" was never uttered in the home of Rav Chaim z"l in the last few years of his life, and if you went to Rav Chaim you would have known that.
I clearly remember seeing hundreds of people waiting on those steps for hours, and yet if someone with $$$$$$ arrived, they would immediately call him, and he would be ushered in immediately!
If you are on Social Media in Israel, you would read hundreds of stories of people whose lives were ruined after meeting with Rav Chaim, not because of Rav Chaim, but because of those around him who would knowingly falsely translate what the Rav said.
I clearly remember an incident the last year of his life where Rav Chaim z"l started screaming gibberish at a Yeshivishe guy from Chutz Leaaretz who came for a bracha for a sick child !
He was traumatized!
The guys you should be lecturing is Yankie and his greedy ilk! These stories need to be publicised so that people who werev abused by the process know that Rav Chaim z"L was not well the last 5- 10 years of his life!
DIN it sounds like u and some on this blog would also bash moshe rabinu lol, I still think its silly to blame rav chaim who was so above any ulterior motive or money , whoever said rav chaims brachos or advice are 100%? How many doctors or experts are wrong when it comes to medical advice?my point is rav chaim is the opposite of all these phony mekubalim fake messiah type and miracle rabbis and uman lol. IVE BEEN as well to RAV CHAIM AS WELL for brochos and advice .I dont think there has been another person as big as rav chaim who is so removed from money, I agree that the people around him were perhaps corrupt and why he allowed it or he didnt know? There was a joke I heard years ago that there were wealthy people who shmeard gabboim and got in ahead of those who were waiting in line with a newborns or very sick people and the joke was rav chaim has ruach hakodesh and knows everything except whats going on outside his house lol. But againThe issue with people and todays judaisim quick fix generation is that the lack of emuna in hashem allows them to believe that a tzadik or mekubal or uman or rav shayala can 100% cure all their problems and HASHEM cannot.
Ben
I'm getting dumber every time I read a comment of yours!
We would "bash moshe rabinu?"
How crazed is that comment? Are you insane?
I am the one who quotes Moshe Rabbeinu at least once a day
"?האחיכם יבוא למלחמה ואתם תשבו פה"
The ones "bashing Moshe Rabbeinu" are Chareidim who refuse to serve!
If I handed over your comment to a Psychologist he would declare you "Clinically Insane"
I don't even know where to begin:
You scribbled while probably on your 5th drink:
"How many doctors or experts are wrong when it comes to medical advice?"
My answer is, far less than Rabbanim when it comes to medical advice!
Rabbis should stay away from giving Medical advice, period!
I remember years ago, people would go to the Skeverer Rebbe for Medical info, but not for medical advice; it was for advice on who was the best doctor for that particular illness!
To DIN 11:30 pm
We frum Jews believe that there is Teshuva for "everything" ? Really ?... So how would you react if someone would publicize "DIN provoqued the death of..." ?
Yes we can do Teshuva for being mechalel shabos, or for eating treifa food, or for davening mincha maariv without a gartel... but a Teshuva bein odom l'chaveroi is a whole different parsha for which I would suggest you do some chazoro... No Teshuva in this world unless the victim himself is openly mochel (and again, Reb Chaim z"l is not here anymore respond to the crazy nut who wrote this insane caption and to the chilil hashem that goes with it).
Zako
It's obvious from your comment that you never opened a Tanach!
To give just one of example (there are hundreds in Tanach) Shaul who killed an entire village of Kohanim was never punished for that, he was punished and his Melucha was taken away because he allowed Amaleik to survive!, in fact the Navie didn't even reprimand him for that! I guess that by your logi. killing another Jew is not an inyan of "bein adom lechaveirao"
Rav Chaim wasn't G-d and we certainly know that now as I noticed that you added z"l after his name!
The story was and is a chillul Hashem and that is because Gedoilim should not guarantee anyone anything because they are not in charge! This story should in fact be publicised so that people with medical questions should direct that to medical professionals not Rabbanim, rabbanim are there to give berachois!
DIN 7:46 pm
Tanach is not halocho, Tanach is no psak din. It's obvious from your comment that you never opened a Chofetz Chaim Shmiras Haloshon !
According to you, we could easily light shabos candles and start cooking the tsholnt on Shabos morning between maftir & mussef just because Yoshua in the Tanach managed to stop the sun for a few hours ?? Are we at Yoshua's level ? Or at Shaul's level ?? Tanach is not halocho, Tanach is certainly no psak din.
Who can allow himself to write "Reb Chaim K provoked the death of..." out of its context, just by gossip, rumors, and no evidence at all... and as if the parents themselves had no part or responsibility in this chain of errors ?
10:37
You are a product of a Yeshiva whose rabbis were more or less a bunch of "Lomdeshe ,Am-Ratzim"
Notice that biggest maggedei Shiurim are Baalai-Batim!
Even the mechaber in Shulcha Aruch and the Rambam quote extensively from Tanach to bolster their Halachic decisions!
You are also surrounded by like-minded ignorant fools!
That is why they don't learn Tanach because your "gedoilim" don't want you to know the truth that every single leader of Klall Yisrael had an army that everyone has to serve, and that Torah Learning was not an exemption not even in Moshe"s Army...
If you want to tell me that all those in Moshe's army were tzaddikim then I suggest that we open all yeshivois and draft them and throw out the Chilonim!
There is hardly a blatt in a gemarah that doesn't quote a pasuk or a story in Tanach ! Your weird example with Yehoshu proves that you are an amm-aretz me'doiriisah!
In fact in of the Teshuvois in the Noda Beyuda he actually discusses a case where it was extremely cloudy on a Friday and because people thought it became night suddenly and they rushed to be mekabeil Shabbos only for the sun to come out two hours later!
Yes, of course alot of the psaks in Tanach were Horoas Shaa, in those cases Rashi and other commentraies explainn it. The bottom line is that no matter what any of your poiskim say, anyone can do teshuva even for aveiros bei adam Lechaveiro!
Yes I'm very familiar with the Chafetz Chayim and his sefer Shemiras Haloshon and in that sefer he has a complete chapter how to do Teshuva when the party that was affected is no longer around !
In learned in his sefer I learned that there is an inyan of
מצוה לפרסם ! And this is what this blog is all about!
Rav Chaim z"l wasn't a G-d and if someone was hurt by what Rav Chaim z"l said then he should be called out on that, Dead or Alive,
I have plenty of stories of how people were very hurt of what Rav Chaim z"l said, I chose not to share it even though they were facts and verified. I chose this story because of the current trend in the naive Yeshivishe communities to worship their leaders but at the same time they mock Chabad! You are all a bunch of hypocrites!
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