So we knew all that forever, that the heimishe hashgacha business with their "chumrois" is a bunch of fraudulent poppycock!
The only hashgachas that are reliable is the OU in the States and the Rabbanut in Israel ... that's it! There I said it!
But the chareidim managed to convince the sheep that only the "Heimishe hashgachos" are reliable!
The facts are that all scandals in the Kosher Hashgacha market happen only with the "heimishe" hashgachos!
Just a couple of years ago we had a huge scandal in Monsey where the Baal Ha"machsahar gave a hashgacha for treif chickens, the mashgiach never checked the produce! And the Heimishe grocery fed tarfus to the entire Monsey community for years!
Food can be treif, as long as the "chumrois" are instituted!
Food can be treif, as long as the "chumrois" are instituted!
Now see that one of their own ... R' Moshe Brandsdorfer writes in a letter just this Monday that Aida Chareida chickens are chazir treif, and he writes that he is not at all surprised! "cock il doodle die"
בכיר ב"העדה החרדית": העופות שבכשרות שלנו - לא כשרים
הסערה בעקבות שינוי אופן הזריקות לעופות בבד"צ העדה החרדית נמשכת. "כיכר השבת" חושף את מכתבו של הרב משה ברנסדופר, בנו של פוסק הכשרות של העדה שקובע: מדובר בטריפות (חדשות)
כיכר השבת מביא את מכתבו המלא של הרב ברנדסדופר:
"הנני בזה בהמשך לשיחתנו אתמול בלילה בבית מדרשינו 'היכל הוראה', בשעה שאחד האברכים הביא לנו עשרה עופות, מעופות האלו שאנו דנים בה כעת ע״ד מה שנמצא אצלם דלקת במקום צומת הגידין [הנקרא בשפת הווטרינרים, 'צלקת' או 'נימוס הרקמות' או 'בשר מת'] היות ששינו לאחרונה אופן הזריקה במקום השוק, ועל שישה עופות הודה מע"כ בפניי שהוראת אאמו"ר מרן בעל הקנה בשם זצוק"ל שעופות אלו בוודאי טריפה".
"ואם היה קורה לפעמים עוף עם שאלה כזו במשחטה שע"י עדתינו, היו משליכין עופות אלו לטריפות עקב הוראתו הנ״ל [ואמרת לי שכן ששמעת הן מהגאון רבי נחום יברוב שליט״א והן מהבודקים בעדתינו]. והוספת, שאמנם לדעתך אין להטריפם בוודאי אלא שיש עדיין לדון בזה".
"והגם שלא היה לי בזה שום חידוש, כי ידוע לי מכבד הוראתו הנ"ל בעת שלוויתי אותו הרבה שנים בשחיטה שהייתה תחת פיקוחו והשגחתו של אאמו״ר זצוק״ל, ותקופה ארוכה הייתי שם הרב הממונה, והוראתו הברורה היתה שכל ריעותא וחשש ריעותא יש להסירו תיכף מהליין ולהשליכו למקום המיועד לטריפות".
"ע"כ כל עניין המשא ומתן בזה, אין כאן שום נידון לוויכוח, כי היה שגור בפי אאמו"ר לומר על כל ענין הנ״ל, שאנו בני ישראל כפופים לפסקי רבינו רבן של ישראל מאור עינינו הרמ״א שדבריו מפורשים בשו״ע יו״ד סימן נ״ו סעיף ט, וז״ל: ואנו אין בקיאין בבדיקת צומת הגידין של עוף משום דקשה לבדוק, ובקל הוא נטרף ולכן בכל מקום דאיכא מכה במקום צומת הגידין אפילו אינו רק נפוח ונצרר הדם מאחר שהיה צריך בדיקה ואין אנו בקיאין בעוף הוא טריפה. עכ״ל".
"וכן בתשובות אאמו״ר (קנה בשם ח״א סימנים מ״ז - מ״ט) כתב שם שכיון שכן, אין לנו עוד מה לדון בזה, אחר שרבינו הרמ״א סגר בפנינו הדרך, כי כל חשש כל דהוא בצומת הגידין הוי טריפה [והטעם לכך, דהיות שיש שם ט״ז גידין, ואנו רואים רק י״א גידין, ואם כן כיון שנעשה ריעותא כל דהוא, אפשר שאחד מהה׳ גידין האחרים שאין העין רואה ניזוקו], ואם רבינו הרמ״א לא היה לקבוע שלא נעשה ריעותא באחד מהט״ז גידין, מי יבוא אחר המלך לומר שהוא כן בקי בזה".
"ע"כ הנני בזה בנידון דנן, אין לנו אלא תורת משה וזאת התורה לא תהא מוחלפת, ומי הוא זה אשר יכול להרים יד בתורת משה - הרמ״א ז״ל, ויה״ר שלא תצא מכשול מתחת ידי אכי״ר, וע״ז באעה״ח בידידות נאמנה משה בראנדסדארפער" נחתם המכתב.
15 comments:
And Ive been paying so much extra for kosher I think we should orga ize a class action lawsuit against the whole kosher industry
DIN- this is laughable. The Eida is much much more machmir on tzomes hagidim then the rabbanut ( by the rabbanut's admission). If you think the Eida's chickens are treif al achas kama vkama the rabbanut.
Just because there is corruption in Satmar hashgochos, don't shoot yourself in the foot by singing praise of the scum at OU & Rabbanut.
Genack's good friend Simcha Katz was caught redhanded in the early 80s selling treif veal. He ignored a hazmona sent by Rav Moshe Feinstein himself & tried suing the Jewish Press for reporting it. Only 2 years later Genack pushed Katz into the Chairmanship of OU kashrus and tried to erase history.
That is only the beginning of Genack's long "illustrious" career.
7:58
I'll eat OU over anybody!
I'm sure you would have different sentiments if you knew the whole story with Genack. Do you know how many times Genack overrode the protests of Rav Hershel Schechter that something is treif and put an OU on it even when he tells the public that certain things are against OU policy. RHS is just a figurehead so Genack can deceive the public while lining his pockets and passing along some of the wealth to the Hillary Clinton campaign. Genack has always been a major fundraiser for Hillary.
Guys
I will eat any ou product before I touch any heimishe hashgacha ...
I've been in the business and I know what's going on!
DIN- I wrote comment 7:03 above. I agree with you about the OU I was challenging what you were saying about the Eida and rabbanut.
7:03,
The key word you wrote is 'machmir'. A chumrah is just that.. a chumrah. It's got nothing to do with kashrus or din l'halacha in any other category , it's a chumrah, period... Rabbanut for me ..!!!!!!
But to my point:
To you & others who may not be gevirim, but are clock-punching zhlubbs like me, who toil like eved kenaanim for a can of sardines and a black raddish for Shabbos, then let's get to work and kick some a..
To wit, we need to join together and build our new businesses.
I.. Kashrus.!! I've an idea for a competing kashrus company, all is ready with logo & everything. We'll need enthusiastic charismatic salespeople to cover domestic/international markets and push our hechsher. Conservatively speaking, I see each of us cleaning up 2.8 million per month per partner.
II... Kevorim Hopping company....Need schmaltzy, fast talking salespeople and tour operators to sell our holy tours which will fly to the ends of the universe in our fleet of Boeing 999's.. 3 minyans a day and kosher chow l'mehadrin & l'machmir'in...
Let's stop being critics,complainers & nerdy customers... Instead , let's do it ourselves.. Are you in????
I am..!!
Derby.....
Both the Edah itself and in Brisk they do not agree with Rav Bransdorfer's view of this. This is a very poor example to give of corruption in hashgochos as this is one yochid flying off the handle.
Brisk has no negios in this and as is known they are very careful to look for possible treifos even going to shlachthoizen to walk with chickens to see if their feet crack.
Derby- I wrote 7:03. I'm not telling you not to eat rabbanut (BTW I assume your talking about rabbanut Mehadrin as stam rabbanut even the head of the rabbanut will tell you only to eat Bshaas Hadchak). All I am saying is that if DIN is going to go with Rav Bransdorfer's view that these tzomes Hagidim are an issue in these chickens that they treif the chicken, then Poshut sh'bposhut rabbanut is treif. I'm not giving an opinion on which is correct just saying that if your going to go by this definition rabbanut is also treif.
7:03 & 11:03,
I know nothing about gidim or bshaas hadchak situations.
In general, I trust Rabbanut and that's enough for me.
If Rabbanut however, states that something they kahsher is a shaas hadchak ruling ,then that's wrong too.
Either an organization calls something it supervises kosher, or it doesn't... and THEN shouldn't give a hashgacha on that product with addendums if they're not comfortable with it.. I don't pretend to know hilchos kashrus, and like millions of others, I'm a grudder Mechel who just wants a good hashgacha, decently priced and affordable.
If you've read any of my posts, you'll know that I'm not a 100% Kool-Aid drinker from anyone, whether it's a politician, rav or organization.
Derby....
Sorry sorry to everyone, but but reb nuchem, Rosenberg was crying about this scandal,10,years non stop what's happening and what's going on in Israel with the chickens and the meat of the ( iedeh hachariedus?),yes ,10 years,he was crying about that,? but ,everyone was singing that,reb nuchem Rosenberg is crazy,?, so do we still wanna sing this songs,? Same thing happened when he was crying about sexual abuse against children,? Instead listening to him,? Instead us seeing the facts that sexual abuse is and is still a huge (magiefa) in every single communities, from the Catholic church till the nicest Jewish Hasidic communities,? we went and /shunned/ostracized/terrorized every victim of sexual abuse,,
By the way,? The iedah hashgacha is the lowest of the lowest hashgacha, ,its a business,? Nothing more, its a garbage hashgacha,? The thing is? if a restaurant or a take out wouldn't take their hashgacha? they will make sure that that place closes down the next day,? unfortunately? this is how they work in Israel, its a fact, they became a mafia terrorist organization, who ever doesn't bend to them will be knocked down?, closed down,? So nobody in yerushalayim is interested to have this headache and fight with them and by the end he would loos his business? Nobody wants to fight with them,? So not to have this headache in yerushalayim they try not to fight this bums,? They are threatening people who wouldn't take their hasgacha? Its mafia style,
echter yid- I understand that you don't have anything of substance to say but even so no one can read your 2-3 comments on every article because it doesnt make any sense in the english language. Do you know what a question mark is?
Mr DIN, maybe zolst essen shtroi...
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