I want to recdoncile this When I was in undergrad I was befriended by an older Gerer couple. They sat together on the couch, constantly interacted in front of guests and there was none of the "I ignore my wife except for the 10 minutes after she gets home from the mikveh stuff." I know a young woman who converted as a child and married into a prominent Bobover family in the nearby large Jewish community. And then I read stuff like this. So which is it?
It’s only ignorant people who discriminate in this area. The gedolei haposkim said that Ben Nidda is obviously not toifess by anyone with good middos. When Menashe Hakutten refused to back down from empowering the ignorant, the Steipler Gaon wrote him a letter, attempting to talk sense into him, that he should be mevatel Daas to R’ Moshe Feinstein & R’ Aron Kotler that it’s not an issue. It’s a similar story with gerim. Rav Schach was witnessed more than once screaming at ignoramuses who discriminated against gerim. The only issue is for bnei Cham as discussed in Rishonim, or if another nisht Veisseh race creates practical difficulties with resultant mixed race kids
I assume that you are are from generation X or older. The gerrer couple you knew were from an earlier era. In today's society, being part of the herd (or at least pretending to be) is a must in too many circles. I believe this is Rabbi Gotleib's point. Herd mentality directly contradicts the intellectual and moral honesty that is the starting point of becoming a ba'al tshuva.
As a child of ba’alei teshuva, I understand the reluctance to marry such. BTs are inherently different in just about everything (just see how they wear their hats — you can tell a BT from a mile away). Although many are sincere and become genuinely frum, they are simply incompatible with Charedi culture. Their thought process is different and their approach to yiddishkeit differs, sometimes in stark contrast to FFB charedim. Lastly, ben hanida IS an issue, regardless of what some so-called gedolim held. Many others disagreed. I wish we shut down the proselytizing teshuva machine, and stop causing people unnecessary grief. Judaism should sell itself to those who care enough about it. My parents are from before the organized wholesale market of Judaism. MO works a lot better for BTs; that’s where they should start.
Correct, BT's often have a superior relationship with Judiasm compared to FFB's - their pureness of heart can be seen from a mile away. That can be incompatible with a chareidi culture of shallowness and herd mentality. Hard to acknowledge that where they stand, an FFB will never attain that height. I wish they shut down the BS krumkeit machine that teaches that being born chareidi confers superior status. In my opinion, it can actually confer terrible nisyonos of self delusion and worse.
7 comments:
I want to recdoncile this
When I was in undergrad I was befriended by an older Gerer couple. They sat together on the couch, constantly interacted in front of guests and there was none of the "I ignore my wife except for the 10 minutes after she gets home from the mikveh stuff."
I know a young woman who converted as a child and married into a prominent Bobover family in the nearby large Jewish community.
And then I read stuff like this. So which is it?
Who is
this clown?
It’s only ignorant people who discriminate in this area. The gedolei haposkim said that Ben Nidda is obviously not toifess by anyone with good middos. When Menashe Hakutten refused to back down from empowering the ignorant, the Steipler Gaon wrote him a letter, attempting to talk sense into him, that he should be mevatel Daas to R’ Moshe Feinstein & R’ Aron Kotler that it’s not an issue. It’s a similar story with gerim. Rav Schach was witnessed more than once screaming at ignoramuses who discriminated against gerim. The only issue is for bnei Cham as discussed in Rishonim, or if another nisht Veisseh race creates practical difficulties with resultant mixed race kids
I assume that you are are from generation X or older. The gerrer couple you knew were from an earlier era. In today's society, being part of the herd (or at least pretending to be) is a must in too many circles. I believe this is Rabbi Gotleib's point. Herd mentality directly contradicts the intellectual and moral honesty that is the starting point of becoming a ba'al tshuva.
10:04
Ask your wife, doesn't she live with you?
As a child of ba’alei teshuva, I understand the reluctance to marry such. BTs are inherently different in just about everything (just see how they wear their hats — you can tell a BT from a mile away). Although many are sincere and become genuinely frum, they are simply incompatible with Charedi culture. Their thought process is different and their approach to yiddishkeit differs, sometimes in stark contrast to FFB charedim. Lastly, ben hanida IS an issue, regardless of what some so-called gedolim held. Many others disagreed. I wish we shut down the proselytizing teshuva machine, and stop causing people unnecessary grief. Judaism should sell itself to those who care enough about it. My parents are from before the organized wholesale market of Judaism. MO works a lot better for BTs; that’s where they should start.
Correct, BT's often have a superior relationship with Judiasm compared to FFB's - their pureness of heart can be seen from a mile away. That can be incompatible with a chareidi culture of shallowness and herd mentality. Hard to acknowledge that where they stand, an FFB will never attain that height. I wish they shut down the BS krumkeit machine that teaches that being born chareidi confers superior status. In my opinion, it can actually confer terrible nisyonos of self delusion and worse.
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