I'm no fan of Bennett and cannot wait for his coalition to collapse. Having said that, Bennett actually told the truth that Chabad's policy is against having a state, and that the Rebbe wrote that Jews shouldn't "go out of exile by force, "but do nothing and wait for things to happen from heaven.
Bennett correctly pointed out that looking back in retrospect this policy discouraged Jews to make Aliyah who could have saved their families.
Chabad went crazy when Bennett correctly pointed out that "“in this context we need to view the historic intervention which Herzl led, bringing us from passiveness to initiative."
Chabad responded by stating that “Bennett forgot to mention in his speech a number of important details and who in truth did prevail historically: Herzl wrote in his diary (1895) that he is unsure about which land to choose to establish the Jewish state, the land of Israel or Argentina, and similarly in his book the Jewish state he left the matter unresolved. He also entertained the idea of ‘mass assimilation’ of Jews as a possible solution to antisemitism and only later reneged and called this a ‘mistaken thought’.”
Chabad is being disingenuous because they are comparing an assimilated Jew whose heart broke witnessing anti-semitism as a reporter reporting the trial of Alfred Dreyfus, to a Frum leader who should have known better.
Herzl initially thought that the solution to anti-semetism would be to assimilate but he was quickly disabused of this idea by rabbanim who he contacted. Not having any Yeshiva background he proposed that Jews move to Uganda. When he was told that Jews would only emigrate to Eretz Yisrael, he immediately embraced this idea and put his whole heart and soul in making this happen.
Interesting to note, that Chabad did embrace Herzl's idea of moving to another secular country and promptly moved to 770 Eastern Parkway. Satmar and Skver also loved Herzl's idea and established cities in the "treifene medina" New Square and Kiryas Yoel. They never gave Herzl any credit for this.
To be fair, it is important to point out that the rebbe did establish Kfar Chabad in 1949 for the recent immigrants from the Soviet Union and survivors of WW2. But this was not because it was in Eretz Yisrael it was simply Chabad's policy to establish communities all over the world, even in countries that murdered their ancestors; none of the Lubavitcher Rebbes ever visited Kfar Chabad, and 770 was what Chabad preferred.
With all of Herzl's faults, he proved to be 100% correct. An honest approach to history would require the Chareidie world to admit their mistakes but that will never happen!
I must add that I am a great admirer of Chabad but the facts don't lie!
During a special Knesset session marking Herzl day, the day that Herzl was born, (10th Iyar 5620) Prime Minister Bennett spoke in the Knesset and quoted chareidi rabbis including the 5th rebbe of Chabad, Rabbi Sholom Ber Schneersohn, who opposed Herzl’s initiatives.
Bennett said that a “prominent chareidi rabbi” wrote in 1900: “We mustn’t listen to them on this matter to reach our redemption with our own hands. To go out of the exile by force. We aren’t allowed. All of our hopes and expectations are that Hashem should bring us Moshiach in our days and our redemption will come through Hashem Himself.”
Bennett gave his own interpretation to the words of Rav Sholom Ber and said that they mean that “we don’t need to act but rather to pray and to believe that things will happen by themselves.”
Bennett also quoted the rabbi of Lodz, Rabbi Eliyahu Chaim Meisels, who he said “placed a cherem [ban] on all of the Zionists.”
Bennett continued stating that “in this context we need to view the historic intervention which Herzl led, bringing us from passiveness to initiative. I believe in this way, I believe in less grumbling and more getting up and taking responsibility even at very difficult moments.”
The prime minister added that “I am a believing person. My faith in Hashem means that on the one hand I believe in Hashem but this does not exempt us in this land, in this world from doing all that we can to influence reality. In the end I have trust in what Hashem will decide, but we need to recognize that in our human comprehension things appear to be bad, there is not insurance that everything will work out well.”
Bennett angered Chabad chasidim by portraying the 5th rebbes words in this way. The chabad site COL responded by stating that “Bennett forgot to mention in his speech a number of important details and who in truth did prevail historically: Herzl wrote in his diary (1895) that he is unsure about which land to choose to establish the Jewish state, the land of Israel or Argentina, and similarly in his book the Jewish state he left the matter unresolved. He also entertained the idea of ‘mass assimilation’ of Jews as a possible solution to antisemitism and only later reneged and called this a ‘mistaken thought’.”
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When he was told that Jews would only emigrate to Eretz Yisrael, he immediately embraced this idea and put his whole heart and soul in making this happen.
That does not seem to be true. Listen to Rabbi Wein on the matter. He pushed the proposal at the congress and it won approval because it was basically a no-confidence vote on his leadership. The Mizrahi also voted for it. However he got sick a few months after the congress and passed away a year later and it was never brought up again. Because whoever voted for it really never wanted it. I never read that he changed his mind.
From wikipedia...
'Herzl presented the plan at the Sixth Zionist Congress but it faced resistance from many of the 573 assembled delegates. They considered it a betrayal of the 1897 Basel Program which had promoted settlement in Palestine. The plan won the formal support of the congress'.
His heart however was in the right place.
@12;33
In short :
Nobody monitors the truth on Wiki. You & I can post stuff about anything. Wiki is wrong here.
Read Herzl's speeches at the Zionist Congresses, , Theodore Herzl by Bein , Fullfilment by by Learsi among others. Read Rav Reinis's own words on the matter, it's available on line.
Herzl wanted a TEMPORARY haven for the Jews because at that point England was not cooperating, neither was Turkey and there was opposition from other Jews , anti-Zionist assimilationists and Bund. The hour was critical. waves of pogroms were hitting Jewish communities.
He never wavered from his goal, getting Jews into then Palestine and creating a Jewish State.
R' Reinis agreed with the Uganda Plan after much soul searching and also considered it as a TEMPORARY solution.
These facts are being twisted by anti-Zionists of every stripe and color, primarily by the Chareidi extremists and are repeating this lie over and over again.
Herzl was exasperated by the lack of movement by those mentioned above and even wealthy Jews. He wanted to desperately help the Jewish people who were being murdered every day all across the Pale of Settlements.
So Uganda would be the place where they can be saef until the Zionist program can be implemented in then Palestine.
But the anti-Zionists liars, revisionists and primarily hypocrites are busy with disinformation and fraudulent propaganda.
So let's see;
On one hand they accuse the Zionists of bloodshed and not caring a fig about Jewish lives as long as a Jewish State is installed. On the other hand , they accuse Herzl of really not caring about Palestine at all.... Let it be Uganda..
You guys need to read history written by others , not exclusiveley by the frummie Israel haters. These are liars of the worst sort.
Herzl had written a note to be read at one of the Congresses , passed it to Nordau , his able assistant ; Im Eshkochaych Yerushalayim......
Binyamin Zev Herzl... Yehi Zichro Baruch..!
Derby
Chabad did a good job worldwide for years but the shlichus time is over.
I'm going to say it : Chabad is Neturei Karta Light.
Sure, they build shuls and mosdos in EY , some even join the army etc.. But they don't recognize Israel and don't mention "Israel" by name. They never encourage their respective shlichus communities to make Aliya.. Suddenly , these 100 yr old Holocaust survivors are fleeing Ukraine and landing at Ben Gurion. Wow !! What took them so long? The Chabad shlichim weren't inteested until now. And even now , I'm not sure .
It's about the moshiach , and their rebbe is moshiach.
Now, the late rebbe was a great man , but let's face it. He had a chance of being moshiach had he collected his troops and made Aliyah ... That would have been something.
But he didn't and he passed on.
The shita of some Chabad rabbis was no different than Satmar or Brisk.
The late rebbe warmed up to the Israeli pols and maybe he wanted to change course.
IDK, but Chabad is anti-Zionist and Bennett spoke the truth.
Bimchik the Toooter
Herzl is a fascinating character. He comes from no known great Jewish authorities. His children all vanished from Jewish history. He stands alone, picked by God to bring forth the Zionist movement and when he established it, he disappears shortly after. But what a legacy for a few year's work?
And Bennett is right. If Chabad and Satmar had their way, millions of Jews would today still be living in DP camps in Europe, forbidden to move to Israel or America and still unwelcome to go to their homes in Europe.
12:33
I am not a DIN fan at all but in this post, even though I disagree with him, he is spot on. Herzl's own speeches contradict wikipedia and Rabbi Wein.
Not only was "his heart in the right place," but so was his head. At the end of the day he is buried in Yerushalyim in the place that he so desired while the Chabad Rabbis are buried in earth that is tumeh.
4th Zionist Congress, London, Aug. 13, 1900
Herzl's own words:
"......Zionism demands a publicly recognized and legally secured home in Palestine for the Jewish people. This platform, which we drew up three years ago, is UNCHANGEABLE.... Our return to the land of our fathers, foretold by Holy Writ, sung by poets, desired with tears by the poor of our people and derided by pitiable mockers, is an event of the greatest political interest to all the powers concerned..." "...We shall ask our Jewish opponents what they have done in all these years to relieve the frightful distress of our brothers. Have they create anything practical ?..."
6th Congress, Basle, Aug. 23, 1903
".... .. Russian government is willing to use its influences with His Majesty the Sultan in furthering our efforts to obtain Palestine. It goes without saying that the Jewish people can have no other goal than Palestine.... Our attitude toward the land of our fathers is, and shall remain unchangeable ..""
3rd Congress, Basle Aug. 15, 1899
".... We lay great stress on emphasizing and proving the uprightness of our attitude to the Turkish government.. ( IOW... not by force, as the liars say ) We announce our intentions in the light of day from which , GOD BE THANKED , we need not shrink, and we want to obtain permission before undertaking a task which would otherwise be unjustifiable...."..
...." Let us say it in one word: A charter ! under the zuserainty (?) of his Majesty the Sultan ..."
Referring to a Romanian pogrom , he says : ".... Where was official Jewry ?? Where were the Great ones of Israel, the pillars of the communities ??.. They made much ado about hurrying a few thousand fugitives along, and then declared
that they were unable to do anything further..."
From a small pamphlet " The Congress Addresses of Theodore Herzl "
HardPress , Miami Fl..
It's a small book containing Herzl's rather short but powerful speeches.
I have it..
Now stop your lies against this great man..!!
the Derby ,edited by Bimbamgonie
He's buried in Jerusalem because asked for it his will. He was absolutely certain of the establishment of a Jewish State in the future. He didn't ask to be buried in Uganda.
Cha Cha de Chazzente
Chabad's lame response to the Bennett's speech that Herzl wrote in his diary "that he is unsure about which land to choose to establish the Jewish State, the Land of Israel or Argentina" is absolutely false.
Settling Jews in Argentina was the idea of Baron Hirsch who founded the Jewish Colonization Association (ICA) for the settlement of Jews in Argentina.
No one talks about that because Baron Hirsch was a frum Jew, so it's ok for a frum Jew to come up with the idea of settling Jews In Argentina, but it's assur for Herzl to suggest Uganda, an idea that as DIN pointed out was usurped by Satmar and Skver.
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