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Tuesday, November 12, 2024

Itri Expels 7 Bochrim From Yeshivah for Doing the Right Thing Signing Deal With IDF

 

The IDF signed agreements with yeshivah bochurim behind the backs of their Roshei Yeshivos and Rabbanim, Army Radio reported on Monday.

The yeshivah in question is Itri, which is a Chareidi yeshivah in Jerusalem but is a bit more open and offers secular studies, a yeshivah high school [ישיבה תיכונית] similar to those in the US.

As mentioned, the IDF went behind the backs of the Roshei Yeshivos and Rabbanim to sign the deal with the bochurim.

The bochurim signed that they would enlist in the IDF within 20 months of ending their limudim in yeshivah gedola in exchange for the removal of personal sanctions.

The yeshivah ended up finding about the agreement the bochurim signed because they began receiving funds for those bochurim since they were no longer defined as draft dodgers. The Rosh Yeshivah promptly expelled the bochurim, not wanting to legitimize enlistment in the IDF.

According to the report, the new procedure is called Talmid L’Tamid. The IDF claims that Chareidi students from various yeshivos have signed the agreement.

In September, the Gedolei Yisrael published a letter instructing bochurim of all yeshivos not to respond to draft orders, including yeshivah high schools such as Itri.

The letter also reassured bochurim of yeshivah high schools that if any of them are harassed by the police or IDF, the entire yeshivah world will unite and fight for them. The letter was signed by HaGaon HaRav Dov Landau, HaGaon HaRav Moshe Hillel Hirsch, HaGaon HaRav Meir Tzvi Bergman, HaGaon HaRav Yitzchak Zilberstein, HaGaon HaRav Baruch Dov Povarsky, Rosh Yeshivas Kol Torah HaGaon HaRav Moshe Yehuda Schlesinger, and Rosh Yeshivas Grodna Be’er Yaakov, HaGaon HaRav Tzvi Drabkin.

The letter states: “Since the army’s harassment of bnei yeshivos worsened and they launched a war against the Olam HaTorah, no bnei yeshivos should show up at draft centers at all.”

“Recently, there are bochurim who received draft orders and a large number of them are graduates of yeshivah high schools [ישיבות תיכוניות] who b’Siyata Dishmaya are currently learning in yeshivos al taharas hakodesh and, understandably, these bochurim are worried, and their dear parents who want the best for their sons are worried about the situation in which their sons are not obeying orders.”

“Therefore we want to be mechazeik those bochurim and their dear parents, that they shouldn’t enlist, chalilah, because every breach could end in a disaster for them [and a result, also for the Olam HaYeshivos] chalilah.”

“Chalilah to enlist or respond to any of any their orders: כי אם בתורת השם חפצו ובתורתו יהגה יומם ולילה”.

“If chas v’chalilah, they actualize their evil plans and arrest even one of you, the Olam HaYeshivos will unite and fight for you like any other Ben Yeshivah.”

Below is a comment from a blogger:

  1. Bamidbar, chapter 32, verse 6:

    Moshe replies to the Tribe of Gad and the Tribe of Reuven:
    “Shall your brothers come to war while you remain here?”
    ______________________________________________________________
    In Tanach, Sefer Shoftim, [the Book of Judges] chapter 5,
    the Prophetess Deborah [Devorah HaNeviyah],
    sings a Divinely-inspired song.

    In chapter 5, verses 12 to 16, the Prophetess Deborah
    publicly praises those Jews who fought against the enemies of Israel.

    Then she publicly REBUKES those Jews who
    did NOT join the fight against the enemies of Israel.
    ______________________________________________________________
    In Tanach, in Sefer Shmuel Aleph, chapter 18, verse 7,
    we see Shaul HaMelech and the General of Shaul’s Army,
    David ben Yishai. (This was before David became King.)

    They are both returning home from recent victory in war.

    We see the Jewish women publicly praising both of them:

    “SHAUL HAS SLAIN HIS THOUSANDS AND
    DAVID [HAS SLAIN] HIS TENS OF THOUSANDS.”

    PERSONAL NOTE:
    From this we see that the soldiers who fight our enemies
    deserve to be publicly praised and thanked.
    ______________________________________________________________
    Tanach, Nechemiah, chapter 4, verse:

    “But it came to pass that, when Sanvallat, and Toviah,
    and the Arabs, and the Ammonites, and the Ashdodites,
    heard that the repairing of the walls of Jerusalem went forward,
    and that the breaches began to be stopped,
    then they were very wroth; and they conspired
    all of them together to come and fight against Jerusalem,
    and to cause confusion therein…

    “And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles,
    and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people:

    ‘Be not afraid of them! Remember HaShem,
    who is great and awesome, and FIGHT FOR YOUR BRETHREN,
    your sons and your daughters, your wives and your houses!’”
    ______________________________________________________________
    Babylonian Talmud, tractate Sanhedrin, page 72A:

    “If you see someone coming to kill you,
    then arise and kill him first.”

    PERSONAL NOTE:
    In our time, Hamas and Hezbollah are coming to kill us.
    For Jews to arise and kill them first is not merely permitted,
    it is required by Torah Law.
    ______________________________________________________________
    Once full-scale war broke out after the State of Israel declared its existence on May 14, 1948 [CE] Reb Shraga Feivel’s [Mendlowitz] thoughts were never far from Eretz Yisrael.

    A group of students saw him outside the Mesivta building one day, talking excitedly with Rabbi Gedaliah Schorr and gesticulating rapidly with the newspaper held in his hand.

    “If I were your age,” he told the students,
    “I would take a gun and go to Eretz Yisrael.”

    SOURCE: Reb Shraga Feivel: the life and times of Rabbi Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz, the architect of Torah in America (chapter 26, page 338) by Yonoson Rosenblum for Artscroll / Mesorah, year 2001, based on Aharon Sorasky’s Shelucha DeRachmana, ISBNs: 157819797X, 9781578197972, 1578197961, 9781578197965
    ______________________________________________________________
    Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan [ZTL ZYA] said this in his
    HANDBOOK OF JEWISH THOUGHT, volume II,
    chapter 3, paragraph 24, top of page 23:

    “Experience has shown us that when Jews
    are not ready to defend and die for their fellows,
    an even greater number are killed in the end.”
    ______________________________________________________________
    Rabbi Steven Pruzansky said:

    “The IDF [Israeli Army] soldier fulfills three mitzvot
    that cannot be fulfilled by the soldier in any other army:
    the settlement (Yishuv) of Eretz Yisrael,
    preserving Jewish life (Pikuach Nefesh),
    and Kiddush HaShem,the sanctification of G-d’s Name,
    implicit in the Jewish people exercising sovereignty over our homeland.”

    SOURCE: Ask the Rabbi, Part 22 by Rabbi Steven Pruzansky
    2023 August 18 from www (dot) RabbiPruzansky (dot) com
    ______________________________________________________________
    Rabbi Pini Dunner said:

    “It is an open secret that out of the 12,000 annual exemptions,
    over half do not meet the standards of full-time Torah study, or even close.”

    SOURCE: article titled: “Haredi and Secular Jews Must
    All Serve the Israeli Nation and Find Purpose Together”
    by Rabbi Pini Dunner 2024/06/28 on algemeiner (dot) com
    ______________________________________________________________
    This article is from matzav (dot) com:

    Thousands gathered in Bnei Brak to honor those who have fallen in the ongoing war. The event included the completion of 2,000 masechtos of Mishnah and Gemara, which had been learned over recent months in memory of the fallen.

    Various rabbonim attended, including Rav Meir Mazuz, rosh yeshiva of Yeshiva Kisei Rachamim, Chief Rabbi Rav Dovid Yosef, and former Chief Rabbi Rav Yisroel Meir Lau.

    In his speech, Rav Yosef addressed the topic of Chareidi army enlistment, stating,
    “We care about the people of Israel. We feel the nation’s pain and study to merit the soldiers.”

    Rav Mazuz spoke about the importance of remembering those who serve in battle, affirming that “their (heavenly) wages are guaranteed.”

    He went on to say, “We are not here to discourage, we are here to support.
    All those who went to war, their wages are guaranteed both in this world and in the next. In this world they’ll be remembered and in the next world they will be paid immensely. In the merit of the Gemara that you studied, may HaShem give them a great place up above.”

    The event was broadcast by the Chareidi media and included heartfelt tefillos [prayers] for the safety of hostages and soldiers on the front lines.

    SOURCE: article titled: “Rav Meir Mazuz: ‘Those Who Go
    to War Are Guaranteed a Heavenly Wage’” 2024 October 31
    ______________________________________________________________
    This quote is from Yehuda Dov for VIN News:

    “A Defense Ministry committee which recently surveyed Charedi youth claimed that a large proportion of them could be drafted, since 13% are not studying and not working, 39% are working, 19% are working and learning and only 29% are exclusively studying Torah.”

    SOURCE: IDF Gathering Info About Working Charedim Prior To Sending 3000 Draft Notices by Yehuda Dov 2024 July 3 from www dot VINNews dot com
    ______________________________________________________________
    AML said this on October 30, 2024 on YWN:

    “The limit for me personally came when the Gedolim said even those that are not learning cannot go to the army because it will destroy their Yiddishkeit.

    This is spitting in the face of all the Daati Leumi who figured out how to do both.

    My sons have done it all, learned, serve and work and are B”H leading a Frum lifestyle. If they aren’t learning they need to serve. There are no excuses.”
    ______________________________________________________________
    Rambam, Hilchot Shabbat, chapter 2, paragraph 23:
    [The following rules apply] when gentiles lay siege to Jewish cities: against them, even when they are [merely] demanding hay or straw.

    If their intent was financial gain, then Shabbat laws should not be violated because of them, nor are we allowed to wage war against them.

    If a city is located near the border, however, we should march against them with weapons and wage war

    In any location, if the gentiles’ intent was [to harm] Jewish lives, or if they engaged in battle with a city or laid siege to it, without stating a specific intention, we must wage war against them and the Shabbat laws should be violated because of them.

    It is a mitzvah for every member of the Jewish people who can come [to their assistance] to go out and help their brothers who are under siege and save them from the gentiles [even on] Shabbat. It is forbidden to delay until after Shabbat.

    After they [the Jewish soldiers] saved their brothers, they [the Jewish soldiers] may return home with their weapons [even] on Shabbat, so that a dangerous situation will not be created in the future.


10 comments:

Chatzkal said...

So I guess it boils down to the opinion of Square Root vs HaGaon HaRav Dov Landau, HaGaon HaRav Moshe Hillel Hirsch, HaGaon HaRav Meir Tzvi Bergman, HaGaon HaRav Yitzchak Zilberstein, HaGaon HaRav Baruch Dov Povarsky, Rosh Yeshivas Kol Torah HaGaon HaRav Moshe Yehuda Schlesinger, and Rosh Yeshivas Grodna Be’er Yaakov, HaGaon HaRav Tzvi Drabkin.

Garnel Ironheart said...

The Peninei Halakha has several chapters disproving all the arguments made to avoid the draft. Who cares? DIN brings multiple sources to prove a jew has to fight. Who cares? BECAUSE THE GEDOLIM SAID SO AND WHO ARE YOU TO QUESTION?
Nice to see that Iran has arrived in Bene Beraq.

Dusiznies said...

Reb Chatzkal
You are very naive! All those "gedoilim" you point out are not recognized by the majority of the Jewish people!
These are Yeshivishe/Litvishe Gedoilim. The Sfardishe and Chassidishe Oilim do not recognize them as their poiskim or even speaking for them! The Dati-Leumi Oilim which is huge and getting bigger wouldn't even recognize these names!
The reality of your "Square Root" is that these Gedoilim you mention are a minority of a minority!

Anonymous said...

Correct.
And so what?
Please point me to a comprehensive essay by ANY of them that explains their rationale and we can then decide based on the quality of the arguments, not appeals to authority from individuals who are hardly objective when it comes to whether their yeshivos should be partially emptied.

Dusiznies said...

All those "gedoilim" go against an explicit verse in the Torah from Moshe Rabbeinu
?האחיכם יבאו למלחמה ואתם תשבו פה
The verse stands all by itself and Rashi doesn't have any comments on this, since even a 5 year-old child understands it! No explanation needed!
When Moshe asked this question, the Bnei-Gad and Bnei-Reuvein didn't answer "Well, we are learning Torah, and Torah is מגנא ומצלא! "
Listen carefully what they answered him:
ואנחנו נחלץ חשים לפני בני ישראל
"We shall arm ourselves swiftly in the vanguard of the Children of Israel"
Here there is a Rashi! And here Rashi explains that they answered ..
נזדיין מהירים ...... "we will swiftly arm ourselves"
If you answer me that the "gedoilim" understand this pasuk better than me, I will tell you, that the Torah was given to all of us equally at Har Sinai, the pasuk needs absolutely no clarification as the Pasuk only relates a מעשה שהיה, a story that happened in real time!
For the life of I cannot understand why Yeshiva Boys, strong & healthy, will not share in the burden with the rest of the population, but want all the benefits!
The excuse that the army will make them go off the derech is an outrageous lie as the army has established a unit that is "shomer Shabbos" "no women" "kosher lemhadrin" "no kol isha" !
The "gedoilim" better wake up and smell the coffee because more and more are mocking and ridiculing them, and causing a huge Chillul Hashem!

Chatzkal said...

Listen, I'm not commenting or giving an opinion on the issue. And I didn't choose those "gedolim" because they're Litvish/Yeshivish or whatever. I just found it cute how "Square-Root" is the "bar plugta" of this long list of elderly rabbanim who have been marbitz Torah for decades and raised thousands of talmidim. I copied and pasted the names straight from your article. BTW to the best of my knowledge most Chasidishe and Sefardishe "gedolim" would have almost the identical opinion on this matter as the letter signers. As for Dati-Leumi they are doing good by following their rabbanim, as all good Jews should.

Garnel Ironheart said...

My favourite is their quoting the Rambam about how everyone can be a Levi and trusting in God for parnassah.
Except that the Leviim didn't get an automatic income. They had to go around and bed at people's door for a share of the grain. And they didn't get bread, it was grain. They then had to grind the grain and make their own bread.
That part gets ignored by the shnorrers.

Anonymous said...

Terrible.Such Bad apples.
Those Jews who wouldn't join the Ma'apilim when they went up.Where were they?
They also wouldn't join the Maccabees in fighting against their secularizing brethren in Judea.
They inadvisably joined the kingdom of the 10 tribes.They also inadvisably joined the revolt against the Romans.
In a nutshell:whatever the blogosphere presumes is correct, do the opposite

Dusiznies said...

Garnel
The Leviyim were not exempt from fighting any wars that were Milchames Mitzva a war to defend, which all agree is this war!

Anonymous said...

Garnel,DIn,etc al,
& Who is that all?
We want to make a jewish state in the Caribbean.
If/ when local gangsters start up with us,of course, you'll be obliged to come defend us.You're all coming?After all it's a MM