I have always thought it one of the advantages of Modern Orthodoxy that we see value outside of our own orbit. We celebrate the profound thinking of R. Yitzchak Hutner, the bold and sensitive halakhic rulings of R. Moshe Feinstein, and the saintly personality of R. Shomo Zalman Auerbach.
Contrast this with how the Charedi world tends to talk about R. Soloveitchik or R. Kook. The same applies in terms of communal evaluations. We candidly admit that the narrow focus of Charedi ideology has advantages in fostering passion for Talmud Torah and commitment to halakha.
That being said, we should retain the right to reject and the ability to refuse. We need not endorse the legitimacy of every Charedi position, accept every work in their pantheon, and support each Rav they consider a gadol.
For example, an entire community not serving in the army without showing gratitude to those who do cannot be morally justified. Such matters are not subject to elu v’elu. It should be legitimate for us to say that R. Elchonon Wasserman was an outstanding lamdan but that his Jewish thought does not reflect the same greatness.
Given that background, I would like to analyze the work of a twentieth century Hasidic rebbe who has recently drawn internet attention. In Tablet magazine, Professor Shaul Magid called for serious engagement with the thought of R. Yoel Teitelbaum, including suggesting that his anti Zionist thought is more rooted in our tradition than Zionism. Professors James A. Diamond and Menachem Kellner wrote a critical response which stimulated a reply from Magid (https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/belief/articles/shaul-magid-teigelbaum-reply).
This inspired me to read through Vayoel Moshe for the first time and I would like to share some thoughts.
Although this essay discusses the work rather than the individual, some points about the person merit mention.
Menachem Keren-Krantz’s biography, Hakanai, depicts R. Yoel as a contentious person who engaged in all kinds of internal Hasidic squabbles before he channeled his energy into attacking Zionism. Furthermore, his never expressing any gratitude for the Zionists who saved him during the Holocaust is morally troubling. On the other hand, R. Yoel lived an extremely hard life which included burying a wife and three children and he deserves sympathy.
Moving to his magnum opus, every thinker brings a worldview to his reading of texts and it is legitimate to emphasize those texts that support his ideology. However, there must be some threshold where the reading of sources becomes so one sided as to render the idea of working within a tradition meaningless.
Let us explore how Vayoel Moshe fares in this regard.
We will begin with the question of proportion.
R. Yoel not only sees human political initiative to bring about redemption before the messiah arrives as a rebellion against God; he views it as the cardinal sin. It is worse than all other transgressions put together (p. 11 in the 5721 Brooklyn edition), the Holocaust is punishment for violating it (7), and one must be a martyr rather than participate in political activism (38). Better to die a martyr than to affirm an oath of loyalty to the Israeli Knesset (104).
Now many writers have wondered about building an entire ideology on the aggada of the three oaths in Ketubot 110b. However, even if one accepts such an ideology, it is bizarre to take a sin barely mentioned in our tradition and to turn it into the worst iniquity in Judaism. It is not an accident that the many pages dedicated to martyrdom by R. Yosef Babad do not even bring up dehikat hakez (hastening the end) as a relevant category.
Though the gates of interpretation open wide, some readings remain preposterous.
Traditional sources talk of respect for the Jewish sovereign even if he is evil as Ahab and Jeroboam. In theory, this would call for showing some respect towards the contemporary Jewish government.
R. Yoel deflects this point by asserting that Ahab and Jeroboam were truly great zadikim (136,139)!
Contrast this with scripture relating that “Ahab the son of Omri did that which was evil in the sight of the Lord above all that were before him” (I Kings 16:30).
The prophet Ahijah informs Jeroboam that he has done evil above all that were before you, and have gone and made you other gods, and molten images, to provoke Me, and have cast Me behind your back; therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam, and will cut off from Jeroboam every man-child, and him that is shut up and him that is left at large in Israel, and will utterly sweep away the house of Jeroboam, as a man sweeps away dung, until it is all gone. He that dies of Jeroboam in the city the dogs shall eat; and he that dies in the field the fowls of the air shall eat; for the Lord has spoken (I Kings 14: 9-11).
Not exactly a speech honoring the righteous. Chazal enumerate these two kings among the short list of individuals without a share in the world to come (Sanhedrin 10:1).
R. Yoel endorses any position that makes the Zionists look bad.
A Jew only receives reward for fulfilling the commandment to settle the land of Israel if he does so “for the sake of heaven” (330). Therefore, the Zionists deserve no religious credit for their heroic efforts to renew the Jewish presence in the Holy Land.
Not clear why this mizva alone requires absolute purity of motivation.
He also either distorts or ignores sources against his position. Reish Lakish harshly criticizes the Babylonians for not returning to Israel at the time of Ezra (Yoma 9b).
In R. Yoel’s interpretation, the problem was not the decision to stay in Babylon but rather other sins preventing them from meriting return (31). Of course, he does not mention the famous passage from R. Yehuda Levi, utilizing imagery from the Song of Songs, in which God knocks on the door but the Babylonian Jews remain in bed and fail to heed the call (Kuzari 2:24).
Note also his rereading of a midrash in which God wishes the Jews would reside in the Land of Israel even if they defile it (114).
His analytical method involves a good deal of inconsistency.
When confronted by the absence of the three oaths in the classical poskim, he says that they were not so relevant during the middle ages when Jews were, for the most part, not moving to Israel but that the principles are still operative (10).
However, he states that the poskim do not cite “A man should always live in the Land of Israel, even in a city of which the majority are idolaters, and not live outside of the Land of Israel, even in a city where the majority is Jewish for whoever lives in the Land of Israel, it is as if he has a God. And whoever lives outside of the Land of Israel, it is as if he has no God” (Ketubot 110b) because this idea exists only when the temple is standing (25). This latter idea, unlike the three oaths, has no impact today.
Theologically, R. Yoel attributes remarkable power to demonic forces.
The incredible successes of the Jewish state reflect a demonic temptation to give up our ideals of political quietism. Think about the implications of accepting this.
It is hard enough for a religious Jew to confront the immense horrors of the Holocaust; now we are supposed to believe that God’s emissary created a significant measure of false hope and consolation immediately afterward as a snare for catching Jews in an ultimate sin. What kind of God does R. Yoel believe in?
This work’s presentation of history also proves problematic.
R. Yoel writes that the Zionists were not only theologically responsible for the Holocaust (140); they were practically responsible as well since they took action promoting the destruction of European Jewry to further their Zionist plans (7). The Zionists slandered the Jewish people to gentile governments (352) and they are the reason why countries closed their doors to European Jewish émigrés (123). The English only sealed their borders to Jewish refugees because the Jews wanted to form their own state (124).
None of this has solid basis in historical fact but we can apparently accept any theory that slanders the Zionist enemy. Hasidic rebbes who instructed their flocks to stay in Europe receive no mention.
Due its incredible one sidedness, Vayoel Moshe is, contra Magid, not “a cogent political theology deeply rooted in traditional sources”. Its author has great erudition but lacks any sense of balance and fairness. Magid’s response to Kellner and Diamond indicates that this is not a purely objective scholarly study for him. He hopes it will serve as a counterpoint to current trends in Religious Zionist thought. Furthermore, it matches his Facebook posts which consistently castigate the state of Israel. Magid recently signed a letter defending a teacher at a Reform synagogue who had written a blog post blaming Israel for genocide, apartheid, and for the brutality of American policeman (https://sandervswrt.weebly.com/).
Magid's attraction to Vayoel Moshe appears personal. It is ironic to find contemporary liberal & leftist voices championing this work. It claims that we cannot teach women even Rashi’s commentary on the Torah because that commentary teaches the oral law (452), that the state of Israel deserves severe blame for not destroying all the churches in the country (110), and that the secular Zionists have the souls of demons and spirits (430). Hardly the stuff of up to date progressive thought.
It seems that, in these circles, hatred for Zionism outweighs almost any flaws.
18 comments:
HaTekufah HaGedolah by Rav Kasher, zt"l, and Alo Na'Aleh by Rav Aviner, shlit"a, both tear the VaYoel Moshe to shreds.
Anti-Zionism could have somehow been condoned before the WW2, as it was sometimes a conduit to Prikas Ol Malchus Shomayim.
This Anti-Zionism is now as outdated as, say, old-time "Bankes blood-letting".
By now, it's a Boro Park fool's religion, nothing else.
A majority of the world Jews live in EY, the biggest Yeshivas & Mekomos HaTorah are found there, the Israeli government supports them with huge financial means, and lastly the Happiness index of Israelis beats all other countries hands down.
So why is that idiotic Kano'os still alive?
Ask the idiots!
Don't ask the Rebbelachs: They make $$$ on the back of the Boro Park idiots.
While I don't claim that the vayoel moshe is universally accepted as the only mehalach on this issue, your comment is ridiculous. It's like asking a kashya on a difficult ketzos from lehavdil a torn out page of the berenstein bears.
You sneakily besmirch Reb Elchonon Wasserman and the Satmar Rav - both who were Malachei Elokim, kedoshei elyon - revered even by those who adhered to different views, but who nevertheless had the sense in their brain to comprehend their greatness and extreme holiness. You subtly besmirch these malachei elokim without batting an eyelash because you are an ultra modern thug who despises charedi yidden who don't adhere to your modern brand of judaism. If you don't like it when the kavod of certain rabbonim is besmirched, don't [subtly, and sneakily] mock the rabbonim who aren't in line with your thinking. And by the way Reb Elchonon Wasserman was an outstanding lamdan whose Jewish thought reflected not only the same greatness, but also the greatness, santliness and piety of his rebbe, the holy chofetz Chaim, Zechusam Yagein olye, bezras Hashem ubechemlas Hashem ulye.
12:31
Part 1
While Rabbi Yitzchok Blau the author of this piece may have been a bit too rash he was 100% spot on!
Gedoilim like the Satmar Rebbe z"l or R' Elochonon Wasserman HY'D, while great people were actually not "Malachei Elokim," they were human who made mistakes, learn Parshas Chukas.
Making them into some deity does not help their holy neshamois, and this idea is actually apikorses.
The Satmar Rebbe himself said (see kuntras "Shimi Divrei Hashem) on Parshas Shlach 1967 that he "wasn't a prophet, nor a son of a prophet" and added that he had "No Ruach Ha'kodesh"
In his "Al Ha'gulah" the Satmar Rebbe z"l postulates that Hashem had no hand in the "miracles" of the 6 day war, he states that it was the "sitra achra" and the "samach mem,"
when informed that this war started a mass kiruv movement, he answered that Shabsai Tzvi ym"s was also mekareiv Jews. Today we have hundreds of thousands of frum Jews as a direct result of the 6 day war.
In 1956 and again in 1967, the rebbe z"l stated publicly that there would no longer be any frum Jews in Israel, and most of the chilonim would assimilate with the Arabs.
It turns out that the majority of the world's Jews live now in the Zionist State of Israel, and the assimilation that the rebbe z"l talked about is actually happening in Chutz Le'aaretz. The Zionist State that he so hated with a passion supports Torah to the tune of 250 million Dollars per year and this is after cuts!
For the rebbe z"l to state that the annihilation of 6 million Jews which included 2 million innocent children was because of Zionism, boggles the mind of any sane thinking Jew!
BTW Abbas keeps saying said the same thing.
If you read "Eim Habanim" by Rav Yssacher Teictal hy"d you will see that he states that most of the Pre War2 gedoilim were absolutely wrong!
Part 2
As far as R' Elachanan Wasserman is concerned, he was vehemently opposed to the mizrachi movement founded by the saintly Rav Yitzchok Yaakov Reines an undisputed tzaddik and gadol hador and called all members apikorsim. he wrote a letter condemning Rav Kook's z"l initiative to raise funds to buy land in Eretz Yisrael. We are now paying a heavy price for this grave mistake.
The point of the posted article has to be taken in context and history has proven both the Satmar Rebbe z"l and Rav Elchonen Wasserman hy"d absolutely wrong.
Many gedoilei Yisrael sauch as Rav Teictal, Belz, Ger, Henkin, Chabad even though they were initially opposed to a State, accepted it post facto
רַבָּה בַּר בַּר חָנָה אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: מַאי דִּכְתִיב: ״כִּי שִׂפְתֵי כֹהֵן יִשְׁמְרוּ דַעַת וְתוֹרָה יְבַקְשׁוּ מִפִּיהוּ כִּי מַלְאַךְ ה... הוּא״ אִם דּוֹמֶה
..הָרַב לְמַלְאַך
Clearly, great tzadikim can be compared to Malachei Elokim, despite the fact that they are not malachim. The lashon is commonly used.
There were quite a few gedolim - who were revered by all sectors of orthodox jews, whose chidushei torah have endured until today, and whose chidushei torah are being quoted and studied more than most other chidushei torah from the previous generation - who were vehemently opposed to the mizrachi movement.
The Kloizenberger Rebbe once referred to the words of the tochecha, תַּ֗חַת אֲשֶׁ֤ר לֹֽא־עָבַ֨דְתָּ֙ אֶת..... בְּשִׂמְחָ֖ה וּבְט֣וּב לֵבָ֑ב as the reason for the holocaust.
If THIS can cause a holocaust, then surely the founding of a medina based on "neehiye kiChol haoomos" can cause it.
The money that is allocated to yeshivas is not given out of the goodness of their hearts, it's called 'politics' and 'coalitions' etc, and it comes with conditions.
Bottom line: YOU don't like it when gedolim that you revere are besmirched, I don't like it when gedolim that I revere are besmirched. In the mockery, I smell modernity, and hatred toward the charedim - a classification I didn't even know existed until I started coming across websites like yours. I always thought charedim was a word used to describe religious jews in general, not jews with payos who dress like their ancestors, and are mocked for it by those who are proud of calling themselves "MODERN Orthodox."
8:53
My point for stating that Gedoilim are not malachim is that gedoilim make mistakes, absolutely.
אין אדם בארץ אשר יעשה טוב ולא יחטא
Interesting that you bring up the KLoizenberger Rebbe who took a trip to meet Ben Gurion. The Kloizenberger accepted the Zionist state and that was his contention with his uncle R' Yoel z"l,in fact he said and repeated many times that those who pretend to know the reason for the Holocaust are "naaranim" fools!
"founding the medina can cause the holocaust?" It seems and I would venture to say that your grandparents did not suffer from the holocaust. I grew up in world of survivors many of them were Satmar chassidim who lost their wives and children, everyone of them were proud that the a medina was established with an army. The Satmar rebbe knowing that his shita would discourage the survivors, pushed out his "vayoel Moshe" and "al hagilah" to keep them in line stating that a medina is against the Torah. He succeeded in building generations of haters and it spawned the Neturei Karta. The Neturei Karta until recently had no Yeshivos of their own, they all learned in Satmar institutions and they quote the "Vayoel Moshe"
Chareidim are mocked because they by in large worship their rebbes, refusing to sent their children to serve and not only that but throwing stones and abusing those Chareidim who choose to serve. They have caused millions of shekels of damage, damaging equipment of those building the "light rail" they are against everything. They protect their molesters and have absolutely no sympathy for the victims.
I'm giving you just some of examples. I do not hate any Jew, those who know me personally know that. Blogs like this expose their hypocrisy as the Chafetz Chayim so famiously said
מצוה לפרסם
People have to know that today's chareidim unfortunately do not represent the Yiddishkeit we all knew and loved. They have hijacked our beautiful religion and they have succeeded because of people like you .
I don't "like gedoilim" I don't like those who like Korach cause strife and chaos!
Just that you know, this blog is actually tame compared to "Kikar Ha'Shabos" and "Bechadrei Chadarim"
Most of my info comes from my own experiences as I live amongst them and also from Chareidim who are fed up with their hate and phoniness.
Your Chareidim hate each other and eat each other alive. Civil wars in Ger, Sadegera,Satmar, and civil war within Satmar. Litvishe world demeaning and cursing the Belzer Rebbe in their Newspaper Yated! Civil war in Ponivetz.
The cause of שנאת חנם are unfortunately today's chareidim. I speak as a chareidie.
There is no tolerance for anyone different and they are constantly in the news for sexual crimes. Except for Chabad, they are taught to actually hate their fellow Jew if they are not from the same chassidus and they actually quote pesukim from the Torah to support their absurd claims. We are going downhill in a cesspool faster than a rocket.
A blog like DIN is very helpful actually, because we need to expose this so that people will stop and think and say : "Is this what I want for my children?"
I believe that the Dati Leumi communities have it right instilling their children with love for the country and their fellow Jew. They are not perfect but they are on the right track.
Thank you, Brisker Payois, well said.
8:53
I highly doubt that רַבָּה בַּר בַּר חָנָה was talking about "gedoilim" that gave pre-war2 Jews bad advice. I highly doubt that רַבָּה בַּר בַּר חָנָה was talking about a gadol who had refused to give a tiny bit of הכרת הטוב to the person who rescued him from the Hitler inferno and then turned around and actually went ahead and bashed the rescuer and re=wrote history stating that the rescuer didn't save him.
I highly doubt that רַבָּה בַּר בַּר חָנָה had in mind a gadol who not only defamed another gadol because he founded the Mizrachi party but called him an "apikoras," and then wrote a scathing letter cursing a Rav that was collecting funds for the purpose to acquire land in Eretz Yisrael. These gedoilim may have been great tzaddikim but they were not melachim as רַבָּה בַּר בַּר חָנָה may have suggested. I highly doubt that רַבָּה בַּר בַּר חָנָה had any Chareidie Rebbe in mind. We live in an עלמא דשיקרה led by Gedoilim who have personal biases
או לו למי שהוא בוטח בהן,או לה לגדולה שלעולם אינה גורמת טובה, או להם לבני אדם שהן מעידין מה שאינן רואין
8:53
"The money that is allocated to yeshivas is not given out of the goodness of their hearts, it's called 'politics' and 'coalitions' etc, and it comes with conditions."
Learn the basics of Hilchos Tzadaka. When it comes to giving tzadaka the motive is irrelevant. Your naïve statement comes from the ungrateful world of todays kollel avreichim. If they showed the minimum amount of hakoras hatoiv and wouldn't mimic your childish yeshivishe argument above, Moshiach would have already been here.
רַבָּה בַּר בַּר חָנָה would not be proud of your comment, you are certainly not a "malach"
Its interesting that 8:53 is guilty of the exact same thing he accused the writer of the post.
8:53 decides who is a "malach" and who is not a "malach". To him Rav Wasserman hy"d is a malach because he was anti-Zionist, but Rav Reinis z"l who founded Mizrachi is not a malach.Harav Tzvi Kalisher who founded the Chovevei Tzion would not be a malach.
8:53, was Rav Kook z"l a malach?
The Satmar Rebbe who was an anti-Zionist is a malach, but Rave Teichtal, Rav Henkin, Belz, The Entire Aguda rabbanim are not "malachim"
8:53 will decide when we follow the dictum of רַבָּה בַּר בַּר חָנָה
To Meshiginar.
Contrary to you bashers of Charedim, Chasidim and non-Mizrachi gedolim, I don't attack the Mizrachi leaders, and I don't go on blogs and take swipes at them. I merely say that there were great gedolim - revered by all - who disagreed with Mizrachi. Just as you defend and praise the Mizrachi Rabonnim, I defend and praise the Rabbonim who disagreed with shitas Mizrachi. But I don't take to the blogs and take pot shots at Mizrachi Rabbonim, or their followers. So, why is it that you take pot shots and I don't? Because you hate Charedim, and you hate the Gedolim who are not on the same page as Mizrachi; I don't hate the Mizrachi.
Now, as far as Israel being built up before Mashiach's arrival, I am not knowledgeable on that subject, but I assume that the mitzva of yishuv Eretz Yisroel, which the talmidim of the Vilna Goan engaged in, does not involve establishing an official state and an Israeli government. And I assume the Vilna Goan never sought to establish an Israeli government, all the more so a government that is not in line with Torah laws.
6:50
I am no hater of chareidim or any Jew, in fact I love them all. I also learned in Chareidie Yeshivois and my entire family is Chareidie. Having said that, I have discovered what you probably know yourself but won't admit is that the Chareidie world does not accept the Mizrachi and Dati World at all. When I say "does not "accept" I really mean that they mock them and they are totally dismissive of them. This is not new at all, as this was the reason that the Second Nais Ha'Mikdash was destroyed. I write and expose hypocrisy in the community so the public is aware of the molestors, ganavim etc in the Chareidie community because they tend to not only ignore them but they make them into heros.
In Fact Rav Edelstein during the Walder affair and the week before he killed himself said that spreading news about this monster Walder was "Loshon Hara" and that aveirah is far graver than Waler's living with married women. Rav Edelstein is now the crowned Gadol in the Chareidie community, of course by the Chassidim they totally ignore him. What Rav Edelstein won't acknowledge is that it wasn't only that he slept with married woman, he seduced them when they came for help. He also raped many of them. It has come to light that Rav Edelstein knew about Walder's indescretions 5 years before the story broke, because at least one of the women had her case in front of him, yer he decided to keept in under wraps because of Loshon Hara. Who knows how many women Waler raped or seduced in those five years. If they would have only known all this heartache at least for could have been avoided. Therefore, it is up to blogs like this to expose them all with their Gedoilim.
Part 2
I will give you an example that happened just this week. A "big" baal darshan went to a public goyishe high school at 7:30 and attempted to have sex with a minor. Read the comments and see how they are protecting this menuval and say that the shiksa made it all up and he was at the High School to look for a cleaning lady!
I know and Im not disclosing this now, that this guy is well known to police in Orange County והמבין יבין
If you have been following the blog you would know that I expose the Dati Leumi and Mizrachi stuff as well.
When a guy writes that the Chareidie Gedoilim were "malachim" I wonder if he thinks that the Mizrachi Gedoilim were also malachim. If he doesn't think so, he is lying to himself about the entire statement of רַבָּה בַּר בַּר חָנָה
I don't know you but from what I read, your entire comment is a "pot shot" at those Gedoilim respected by the Dati World.I think it's important fror the oilim to know that the rebbes basically hate each other, examples are : Satmar, Ger, Bobov Sadigere, Ec. Even amongst the Roshei there is hate, I know that because I learned in some of those Yeshivois as well. If it wasn't for blogs like this, it wouldbe far worse. Let the "oilim" decide after hearing and reading the truth and let then decide if they want to continue worshipping the Gods of Baal!
You are a faker and full of BS. You say you don't hate the Charedishe gedolim and then you mock them in the same breath. You are a modern guy who is consumed with hatred for charedishe gedolim. And why would you kvel over a medina that is led by those that do not adhere to the torah? [Of course, many of them are like תינוק שנשבה, but nevertheless.] The whole concept of Eretz Yisroel is based on Torah, not on nationalism or Zionism. Sorry, but only a medina based on Torah is Medinas Yisroel; everything else is BS. You are BS too. I stay away from these anti charedi websites, and I need to stay away from yours too. It does me no good to read this cr_p. The modern orthodox, דָּתִי לְאֻומִּי world is not my place.
8:14
You scribble "only a medina based on Torah is Medinas Yisroel"
Ok I got that , let's take look at previous Eretz Yisrael Governments.רחבעם, אביה אסא יהושפט יהורם אחזיהו
עתליה יואש אמציה עוזיהו יותם אחז מנשה אמון ואשיהו
עמרי ירבעם בן נבט אחאב נדב אחזיהו
all the above Jewish governments and more that I didnt list were all murderers, rapists, pagan worshippers, mechalei shabbos.
Before youopen yout big mouth, read Tanach
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