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| MK Trajtenberg with seminary girls |
I can't wait to see all the anti-Zionist cockroaches coming out of the walls with their hateful cursing e-mails after reading this article!
But I'll spare my readers, I wont publish them!
MK Manuel Trajtenberg (Zionist Union) visited Midreshet Lindenbaum today (Wednesday), in order to speak about religious women in the IDF.
MK Trajtenberg met with Rabbi Ohad Tehar-Lev, the head of
the seminary, and Yinon Ahiman, the CEO of the Ohr Torah Stone institutes. The three talked about all of the programs that make up the Ohr Torah movement, and the students' interest in economic and social issues.
Afterwards, Trajtenberg spoke with a number of the students, particularly focusing on how woman are able to combine Torah study with serving in the IDF.
He stated that "The desire of girls from the national religious sector to deepen their study of Torah fits well with their desire to have a meaningful service in the best IDF units, and this is a special phenomenon that brings with it good news for women in the Israeli society."
According to Trajtenberg, "The way to an equal society between men and women also goes through the world of content - particularly the world of Jewish content.
The young people who learn in seminaries are the pathfinders leading the way. Formulating a Jewish identity that is based on, and created from, the Jewish tradition is a meaningful mission for Zionism in the 21st century, and for the State of Israel in order to mold the concept of being Jewish and democratic."
Rabbi Ohad Tehar-Lev, the head of the seminary's Israeli program, said that the visit was important to both sides. "I personally got to know a very ethical, visionary, smart, and wise man with a wide perspective, who understands the deep meaning of Torah study as a whole and Torah study for women in particular.
I think that he was also enchanted by the girls and by their Torah study and the paths they are taking. We met a very special person here, and I wish all leaders could be like him."
35 comments:
Oh please. These are Riskin-aligned Leftist fringe nuts.
And besides that there is a huge difference between being in favor of men in Tzahal and the issur chamur of women serving in the military which R' Yaakov Kaminetzky said befarhesya is yehurag veal yaavor and if mandatory he would posken it is assur to live in Eretz Yisroel. It happens in the Mossad also that the superior officers pressure girls to have sex with them. This has been widely reported.
Yeh right
Reform and conservative also combine their heretical views with torah study. So do jews for Jesus as well as many messed up groups. These girls are confused creatures. They neglect tznius but will never forget mincha. I once saw one of these creatures in jeans sitting on a subway with her feet on three chairs holding an open gemorah. There all kooks. Feminist meshugoyim
5:40
Guys ... I told yu that the "cockroaches" are waiting to pounce with out right lies ...
and writes .... get this meshigina brain
"mandatory he would posken it is assur to live in Eretz Yisroel."
Only the Arabs and the Satmar apikorsim say that's it is "assur to live in Eretz Yisroel"
Hey sicko ...there is only 3 aveiros that are "yehurag veal yaavor" and a girl in the army is not opne of them...
And not only the " Mossad superior officers that pressure girls to have sex with them"
Also the Satmar "therapists" pressure girls to have sex with them, just ask Weberman that's rotting in jail, and that menuval Weingarten that screwed his own daughters!
So the Mossad and Satmar have a lot in common!
DIN- I did not write either of the comments above by I believe you are being slightly disingenuous. Rav Yaakov Kaminetsky (who other times you claim to respect and have known personally) assured women going into the army. Additionally, you claim to at least partially follow rav Shach who clearly forbade women going into the army. For some of these girls, programs like this make them frum in the end which is not necessarily so bad but please don't make it seem like only a few crazies forbid women army service. Virtually all gedolim from all spectrum assured (including many modern-orthodox rabbonim).
6:53
It's a different world out there since R' Yaakov & Rav Shach were alive ...
Now they throw stones on soldiers ..... you cannot have it both ways ....
if you don't want men to join the army .... then we need the women ... absolutely ...
if you don't want the girls in the army ...then let those Chareidim that want to join ...join ....
Every government needs an army including Israel ....and if you are going to riot when Jewish Frum soldiers join ... then let's get the girls out ... absolutely!
You shrey that Satmar distorts yet you distort what I wrote.
R' Yaakov said he would asser living in Israel IF they conscripted women.
Yehurag veal yaavor covers znus which Army officers coerce female underlings into.
Now be a man & demand the same treatment for rapist Tzahal & Mossad officers as menuvol Weberman.
9:11
If anyone rapes someone they should sit in prison, be they Satmar or the Mossad...period!
But if you are not going to send men in the army then women will have to do the job ..
BTW I just checked with R' Mordechai Kaminetzky, R' Yaakov's grandson, and he says that your statement is a bald faced lie that R' Yaakov never ever said that and never would, and one of his children R' Nossen Shlitah lives in the State of Israel and they draft women and it seems that he doesn't have a problem with it!
BTW R' Chaim Kanievsky and R' Sheinman, and the Belzer, the Gerrer, and the Briskers etc all live in Israel and there are women in the army, according to your dumb logic they should leave ...
shouldn't they?
You meshiginer upgerissinar naar!
You are reading what I write too quickly.
I am talking about (mandatory by definition) conscription. The secular Zionists at one point wanted to sneak it in with a sugarcoat that women would only be in non-combat service roles.
In the end because of the uproar they did not introduce mandatory conscription of women.
I heard this from a different grandson of R' Yaakov. It may have happened when Mottel was in diapers.
11:25
I flew with R' Yaakov z"l to the Knissah Gedolah, and spent a lot of time with him, I can tell you that he never said one word against the Zionists, in fact I drove him to see Shamir who was at the time the Education Minister ... R' Yaakov was with him for hours ..
Again ... if the Chareidim will not send their boys to the IDF then they must draft the women ....
So if the Gedoilim want to assur women in the army ... then they must issue a fatwa to be mattur boys in the IDF! ..
DIN,even though i agree with you 99% of the time and enjoy your blog immensely,this time you are 100% wrong,all the chareidi gedolim of the previous generation without exception ruled that for frum girls to be drafted into the army is "yehrog v'al yaavor" period end of story.
and yes some of them said,that if the government will institute a law and force the drafting of religious girls,then according to halacha you would have to move away.
don't understand why you would have a problem with that.
CHAIM.S
There was a lot of salivating going on when the Hungarian chassidim led by Satmar started threatening to uproot themselves over the current draft controversy en masse & relocate to NY-NJ. At least some of the Poilishe led by Belz said they would also take up Satmar's offer to help out anyone else interested.
We all thought we were going to make a killing on Catskills-Monsey-Lakewood real estate. But nothing has materialized yet.
My opinion is,,that when it comes to draft girls in military? the girls themselves should have their own opinion and they should be able to make their own decisions if they would want to join in the military or not ? Not the rabunim should make their decisions,? (2) because unfortunately today we have girls,and boys, bucherim,,teenagers,already on the streets, ( not in the yeshiva /school systems and it showed the facts that it didn't bring any good results till today?) and lots of them are already off the yiddish derech, they are on drugs,lots of them unfortunately are already,,mechalelie shabusim? veyumim tovim,?, or doing something very wrong between themselves? Its pushit a mitzva to take them all off the streets and in list them into the military, I guaranty you that they will come out from the military totally a different person,? To sing the song that reb yakov kamenetzki said this and said that,? If reb yakov kamenetzki would be alive today ? He would push to inlist every boy and girl who is rolling around on the streets?? I guaranty you that
Chaim S
Thanks for reading my blog ....
but when you write:
" some of them said,that if the government will institute a law and force the drafting of religious girls,then according to halacha you would have to move away."
The fact is that they do draft girls, and the "Gedoilim" didn't move away...
So talk is cheap! ...
My suggestion is that the Gedoilim tell their respective MK ... that they will allow a number of men to join the army in exchange for setting aside the compulsory draft of women ....
the fact is that there aren't any girls that are drafted both non frum or frum that serve in the IDF that don't want to ....
Nobody takes the "yehrog v'al yaavor" business seriously ...
for Chassidim its "yehrog v'al yaavor" to wear a Shreimal and for some Chassidim that women should wear "spitzals"
For Litvisher its "yehrog v'al yaavor" not to work for a living ...
recently some Gedoilim said thats "yehrog v'al yaavor" for women to get any degree!
For Visnitz its "yehrog v'al yaavor" for women to drive
now the iphone is "yehrog v'al yaavor"
The Rambam is clear what "yehrog v'al yaavor" is and I'll go with the Rambam
There were many girls that were trained during WW2 in guns and warfare and battled against the Nazis in the Warsaw ghetto... and battled with the partisans in the Poland forests ...
If they don't want the women ...have the men fight ...
BTW the Gedoilim say that its "yehrog v'al yaavor" for even men to be in the army ...these same Gedoilim have no problem with Shoimrem etc ...
Sorry Chais S but I don't buy it ...
"yehrog v'al yaavor" is over rated!
"...all the chareidi gedolim of the previous generation without exception ruled that for frum girls to be drafted into the army is "yehrog v'al yaavor" period end of story....
Please give us even a PARTIAL list of these gedolim , their exact quotes, and the venue where they said it.
Remember..... You wrote "all."
And if true, how about other gedolim that never said it.
the Derby.... The facts, please.
Chaim S,
When the frum make Aliyah, vote, and vote for a religious government then all that'll change.
Heck, it may even be so frum you wouldn't need an army altogether.. All you'll need is a bucket of sand, throw them at the enemy and bingo.... they turn into deadly missles..
But by the way, had the frummies made a push to settle in EY as much as the secular, had they wanted and loved EY as much as them, then they would have been the majority and the ladies would stay indoors and cook kasha varnishkes in shirtzlach over tznius'dige denim skirts , turbans and sneakers... No women in the army...
Now they shrei GAVALD..... Blah, blah.... You guyz didn't want the state, you couldda had it.... But yuz waltz in just a wee-bee late and wanna give orders, hafganos, Yehorag V'al Yaavor pronouncements.... on and on...
Cut it out already.... Be the majority and rule... or find a hobby, such as tzibbeles pickling or some such thing..
The frummies whine and whine and wine & whine.....This is no good, that's no good, gius, tznius, IDf, kollels, Shabbos, Reshoim, Nazis, Toeva...
Put up or shut up already.... Get your gedolim in galus to influence their followers to make Aliya and then we'll talk...
by Inmitten-Derinnen
DIN, that is not the definition of a draft. If there was a draft, all girls as soon as they finish 2 years seminary would have to join Tzahal. But they do not have to join Tzahal because there is no draft.
And stop all that silly blurring of lines with yehurag veal yaavor.
For the umpteenth time all gedolim poskened against drafting females. Me redt vegen a functioning state. Stop your distractions from the chaos of Nazi butchers killing everyone in sight.
When you become a gadol you get to posken too. Otherwise don't wear shoes that bigger than your feet while making choizek.
While I'm sure that those allegations really happened in the IDF, they were a minority. It's easy to make blanket statements about the majority without evidence. So please post proof or it's flat out lashon hara.
That said, what'll do with Yael, who according to an opinion in Chazal had multiple sex with Sisere, then gave him warm leche, then decapitated him...I know, I know, I know it's not the same...
But food for thought nevertheless...Was she allowed to do this, or was she over on Yehareg v'al Yavor?
de Heen & de Hoon
Yehareg v'al Yavor as pertains to the IDF is hyperbole, not meant to be taken in its literal sense. On the other hand when hafganos go batty, when religious IDf are verbally & physically assaulted, when on Shabbos, cars are smashed with rocks and overturned, when other Jews are called Nazis and worse, when on Shabbos some march in shtrimels and Muslim scarves causing massive chilllu Hashem, then the tables get turned. Do you know the halachos of chillul Hashem are,? they ask. How can you, the doofissis and and schlemiels know what chillul Hashem is? Are you gedolim???
"Blurring the lines" , no ??
L'chol Hapoochis... My last post... Making Aliyah next week... Shalom, Shalom.
Where is the opinion that Yael did anything?
To all of you who are busy with (yehurag val yaavor?) What about sinas chinum? Isn't it yehurag veal yaavor? What about every posek has a right to say his way what he thinks is the right way to do ? The right way to pasken? and not we should bring him down like a peace of garbage like we did a week ago in Williamsburg Brooklyn against the biggest posek rav shtienman shlita,? Isn't this yehurag veal yaavor? Rutzachtu vegam yurashtu,? We kicked out thousands and thousands of yiddisha hiemisha fruma kinderlech from the /mosdos/yeshivas/schools/ we dropped them off on the streets? and now we would tell them if they could join the military or not? Is that so,? Is it better when we let this teenagers roll around in the streets and getting crazy ? Rioting in the streets,? Igniting fires every where ? The entire Jerusalem is burning like one big fire,? Breaking stuff fighting with the, (mishtara),police? Not enough we Israeli people are suffering enough from this huge problem ? we find our selves with another problem ? The drop outs of America? ( supposedly they come to Israel to learn ) they are much much more a bigger problem ? There parents in America think that there child is sitting here in Israel in yeshiva and learning? Little do they know that there child is rolling around the streets day and night they could be found in every hangout in every club ( together with Israeli dropout girls ) smoking all kind of stuff? And doing unfortunately much much worse things what they shouldn't be doing at all ? And we have a problem with taking off this kind of children from the streets and in list them into the military?? We should send home all American drop outs as soon as possible? Israel has enough dropouts? We don't need the American dropouts to run after fruma girls? Or helping out to turn over the streets of Jerusalem,? And the dropouts of Israel should be inlisted into the military,?
Dusineis said
The fact is that they do draft girls, and the "Gedoilim" didn't move away...
So talk is cheap!
=====================================================
DIN,with all due respect you don't have your facts straight,
and this time you don't know what you are talking about.
the fact is that "RELIGIOUS GIRLS ARE NOT DRAFTED INTO THE ARMY,any girl who declares she is religious ,gets an automatic deferement.period end of story.
it's the non religious ones that get drafted,
The GEDOLIM warned that if the REIGIOUS ones get drafted then they might have to rule that all religious jews with daughters have to move away.
CHAIM.S
10:03
They can rule all they want, nobody is leaving ....... And nobody listens to them ....
I'll prove it .... The Gedoilim have paskened "yeherig ve'al yaaver" not to go on the internet and I get from from 20,000 to 80,000 hits a week
I'm a Religious Zionist and definitely no blind charedi defender but u do need to learn history. Until the late 1800's the majority of Olim were very religious. Even after that there were plenty religious moving and the standard until the 1920s was to be religious. It was only at that point when the non-religious came it got the religious nervous and they stopped. Btw on one hand the charedim look at what happened and feel to an extent that they were right but on the other hand if they would have continued to come it would have been a different story. Point is although ur point may have merit it is inaccurate to say they weren't there.
Shoftim 4...See Radak on word 'Basmicha'.. He quotes Reish Lakish that Sisera never touched Yael. However in Shoftim 5, he brings down R' Yochonon who says she did it 7 times. He doesn't accept this view ,and others point out that if indeed true, she did it leshem Shomayim to help save Jews.
It should be said that when earlier gedolim such as Chazon Ish said it's Yeareg Vlo Yavor, and he presumably meant men too, it was a very secular IDF. Today there are shuls at every base, all kosher food, and strict rules of behavior, if when violated, the system provides for strict judicial process.
de Heen & de Hoon
I am a flatbush Jew with a bent down hat. I am not satmar but I must admit Satmar is the biggest chassidic movement in the world. Yes far bigger than Chabad. Satmar is also the wealthiest chassidic group by far. Yes having two rebbes is needed as it's difficult to control so many people. Even moses needed to have a mentor for every nine Jews. You lump Satmar with the Mossad. The Mossad is anti frum and the israeli army allows three free abortions to its female soldiers. Satmar has had individual molesters but so has every group from yu to the popes in the Vatican. But as a policy Satmar is very frum and provides strict hecshers on food products and all in all is the most and fastest growing chassidic group in the world as well as in history. Even in nearby boro park Satmar is the largest chassidic group. They are all over. Even in israel they are building a hugh center in jerusalem where one of their old Satmar Shuls stood at rechov yoel street. I was impressed at the speed they built that block long building with many floors. Satmar are very friendly people. More than I would say any other chassidic group by far. They smile more and almost all their members have a sense of humor. They are not dry like other groups. I'm a flatbush guy with my fancy castle in flatbush but admiring Satmar on all their activities. Without Satmar the yiddishkeit in America would be in deep assimilation. It is Satmar that controls the other chassidic and orthodox groups from slipping away. Remember that.
11:47,
Although you're correct about the early history, it's not the full story.
A great deal of the amcha Yidden , the grass roots, were FOR living in EY, and many of these indeed made Aliyah. Alongside this phenomenon came the Zionist movement and its Congresses.
The frum leadership ( rabbis), those that were famous and had the might and alim to influence, were in most cases , violently anti-Zionists. Those rabbis in favor were marginalized and sometimes cursed. I have a sefer of writings by Harav Nissenbaun H"Y"D , who was a secretary to R' Mohiliver, a pro- Chibas Tziyon tzaddik. He writes about the merits of joing the Zionist movement from a religious point of view, was an admirer of Herzl and urged the frum to join the Congresses in order to gain influence in the establishment of the future State.. ... writes about the rabbonim who supported it... and writes about the flak They received. Of course, the majority of the frum never joined.
This was a great factor, though not the only one, in the slowing down of frum olim.. As a result, the secular olim outnumbered the religious as the years went by. This is indisputable history. The secular became the majority, the frum olim dwindled.
With this piece of history, you CANNOT argue. You can revise, but you can't argue.
Forward to Hungary, 1943-44.
The Av Bes Din of Uhel Hungary , R' Dovid Meiselish Z"TL, author of Binyan Dovid ,gave a drasha in which he said :
(translation from the Yiddish )".... Be'emes it now shows that we were not right with that what we held back from the movement (Zionist) to build the Land.... Many, many and much more of acheinu Bnei Yosroel could have been saved had we been working in building our land from early on, and that we didn't have split opinions..."
Some of these rabbi's children were trapped in Slovakia. ( From Eim Habonim Semeicha)
So my friend, the chareidim were outnumbered, outworked, out politicized by the secular, when they themselves could have done the work, or shared the work.
The proof is in the pudding :
The Israeli government looked the way it did DESPITE your early frum chalutzim.....There weren't enough of the religious... Those are the facts...
So, when you write that ".....on the other hand if they would have continued to come it would have been a different story...."
is unfortunately, wishful thinking. They DIDN'T come and wouldn't have come.... When they wanted, it was already too late... And these days when the State already HAS frum MKs ( blabbing every other day about some non-sense in order to get into the newspapers) , when there's a growing frum population there then why in your opinion aren't more frum making Aliya???????
the Derby
11:47, Religious Zionist...
First, I never implied that they weren't there.
Second.. You made my point for me, namely , that they stopped coming
after the 1920s. 'nuff said.....
Couldda, shoudda, wouldda.... but didn't...
Didn't.... They couldda been in control but were talked out of it by you know who..
Chaval...
Inmitten-Derinnen
Derby: To just mention the Litvishe rabbonim
chazon ish
steipler
Brisker rav (said ossur not yehareg vaal yaavor)
Rav issur Zalmen meltzer
Rav shach
Rav Tzvi Peach frank
Rav Bengis
The entire Moetzes Gedolei torah in E"Y at that point
Entire Aguda in E"Y and the Eida Hachareidis
Rav Ahron Kotler
Rav Yaakov Kaminetsky
Rav Mohse Feinstien
Rav Ruderman
Rav Meir Karelitz
The cheif Rabbinate of the State of Israel
Rav Sholom Schwadron
Rav Eliezer Yehuda Finkel
Rav Yechezkel Sarna
Rav Chaim Shmuletvitz
I put together that list just reading through Kol Korehs and letters which are well known which have all of those people names on them. Not to mention the great CHassidic and Dati Leumi rabbonim who came out against women being drafted. If you are interesting in seeing seeing these statements from the Gedolim they are not hard to find. Maybe you will be intellectually honest enough to admit the gedolim were against women's army service.
7:21
Take all the "Kol Koras" and shove them up where the sun don't shine.
All the Rabbanim have to do is have the boys join the army and then i'll side with you not to draft the girls ...
you cannot have it both ways ...
BTW Mr. 9:21 all those Rabbonim also wrote "Kol Koras" that it is "yehearg v'al Yaavor" for boys to join the IDF!
7:21,
Thank you for compiling an impressive list, but we already know that most rabbonim were against the female draft.
However, I was specifically addressing the issue of Yehareg V'al Yavor ( see my post above). My question was specifically about that.
I'm not sure if ALL the rabbonim you cited actually said that ( about women in IDF).
That said, many girls ask their personal rabbi for an opinion as relates to them individually.
For example,the daughter of Rabbi Binyamin Lau, who was, and may still be, the rav of Katamon, joined the IDF.
Rav Lau had this to say about it:
“It’s important to me that the young religious woman is a partner in what is called ‘fulfilling the mitzvah of serving the country,’” he says. “Serving the country is part of one’s civic duty, but in my opinion, it is also part of one’s religious duty. In a society that is in such a security situation, religious people have an obligation to mobilize for the good of society both on the front and in the rear, on condition that women find the settings that are best for them and are able to maintain their natural environment without being put to impossible tests.”
As I posted earlier, the IDF today is much, much more sensitive to frum & religious. It's no longer the rag -tag army of 1948 with mixed elements , shooting Davidkas in order to survive . Additionaly, women can do Sherut Leumi instead. As we know, in a milchemet mitzvah, EVEN women were called in, albeit not in a cambat role.
Finally, allow the bochorim to serve if they want .
Why not? Israel is surrounded by 200 million enemies. If they don't need you, they'll send you home. But IMO , every citizen there living in a non-stop hostile environment shouldn't serve?
How about Lo Taamod Al Dam Rei'echo?
If Yehareg V'al Yavor includes men, the are they saying that for secular men it's ok?? Or does Yehareg V'al Yavor include all males? In that case, who's going to protect the country? Or is it ok for secular to be Al Hamishmar and risk life, limb and blood for everybody else including frummies? If yes, then let's hear it Kluur... That you secular Jew spill blood for me the frummie... I dare anybody to say that.... I want to see a list of rabbonim that would...
Don't draft the women, but then but stop haranguing against the boys' IDF draft. Stop the assaults, the cursing, the pressure.. Tell me, who's going to protect the people? Dovid Hamelech had Yoav and neither could do without the other.
the Derby
Why not sherut leumi then?
Here's Rabbi Avi Shvat from Yeshiva.Org, not a liberal rabbi, who opposes drafting women but had this to say about Sherut:
"Theoretically, this may eventually change, but in the meantime, even though it may not be “politically correct”, one can’t deny the reality that all of the poskim agree that it’s better for young woman to contribute in the framework of National Service (Sherut Le’umi). Hopefully you can now understand the rationale."
de Heen & de Hoon
To all of you commenting, if we have a problem about ,yeharagg val yavor? Why was ,chayim hersh mieslish, the grand grand son of the old ( satmare rebbe the bal bierech moshe?) Aloud to go and inlist in the Israeli military ? If it is yeharagg val yavor? And if its against the,,satmar shitah,?
Rav Hershel Shechter quoted Rav Y. Kaminetzky that he told his grandson that if he lives in Israel, he must go to the army.
Rav Moshe Feinstein's grandchildren served in the IDF.
Rav Shach and Rav Yossef said for all boys who aren't learning to join the IDF. There is a signed letter from R' Shach to that effect. This is important, because many things that gedolim supposedly say or don't say are spread by hockers , schvitzers or OX'ooonim , and at the end of the day, nobody knows what's true , what's misquoted or exaggerated, or which end is up.
If there enough boys, then you don't need girls and one doesn't have to be Yehareg V'al Yaavor..
the Derby
From Rabbi Dov Lipman, who is a wonderful rav with mesiras nefesh , no matter what some chareidi critics say. I'll take his word over many of them:
Jerusalem Post..
Time To Tell The Truth About The Draft Of Charedim
Partial commentary ..
"If the haredi community would simply say, “Yes, we will send all boys who are not learning day and night to serve,” there would be no battle or tension. But the haredi political leaders are not doing this. Twenty-five percent of boys leaving yeshiva translates into less money for those yeshivas. The law would also allow more bnei Torah to enter the work force and earn a living, which means fewer young men would require government handouts – the justification for the very existence of these political parties. They don’t want to lose this. Therefore they prefer to mislead the public and do battle. They prefer to fight the most generous offer they will ever see from the secular side and to tell their young men to not serve, thereby forcing the country into a corner and placing over their heads the threat of potential arrest in 2017.
The hallmark of the Jewish people has always been emes. It’s a tragedy that for selfish interests political leaders and activists are not telling the truth – and doing so as if it is in the name of Torah.
I hope this column lifts the veil of sheker that has settled over this sensitive issue. American donors to Israeli yeshivas should demand that those yeshivas send the boys who are not learning day and night to the army. Doing so would not only fulfill the instructions of Torah leaders and spare them the indignity of wasting their time, it will keep you from wasting your well-earned and well-intentioned donation money. Demand transparency. Insist on truth. Nothing else should be expected of those who claim to represent the epitome of truth – our Torah.
Thanks, Rav Lipman... and if they do, they won't have to draft women.
the Derby
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