The extremists are now having a snowball effect on the Jewish people.
The moderate Agudah has now teamed up with the Satmar "meraglim," and the Neturei Karta to fight the State of Israel!
Belz & Kloizenberg who hated Satmar, now joined the Rumanian hooligans.
Even the Litvisha Roshei Yeshiva are now adapting the Neturei Karta ideology. Rav Aaron Kotler is turning in his grave!
You may say, that they are the frum majority, so they must be right.
That reasoning is flawed, since the Buddhists and Moslems are the majority religion in the world; are we going to G-D forbid accept their theology?
The Agudah though they deny it, organized the huge Chillul Hashem that happened last Sunday on Water Street!
They are spewing hate and blatant lies to the masses telling them that the government of Israel has planned all along to induct the Yeshivah boys to make them not frum!
The Nazi, Joseph Goebbels, Minister of Propaganda in Nazi Germany, used to say that if you "keep repeating your lies, they will become fact"
Using Goebbels tactics, leaders of our Yeshivas are brainwashing our children with these lies!
People are becoming fed up and want to take back yiddishkeit from these usurpers and charlatans!
Leaders of Klall Yisroel don't always wear fur coats, Eisav also wore a fur coat.
Leaders of Klall Yisroel don't always wear fancy fedoras and frocks.
The Chofetz Chaim, didn't own a fancy hat, he wore a simple Chino Cap!
Leaders of Klall Yisrael are people who don't fight their brothers in secular court. The second Rashi in Parshas Mishpatim clearly states that if you go to secular courts, "you are me'challel Shem Shomayim,"
Leaders of Klall Yisroel don't endorse pro gay candidates for mayor in New York!
Leaders of Klall Yisroel don't protect rapists, sex abusers!
Leaders of Klall Yisroel, don't annex land in Monroe to antagonize the gentile neighbors!
Leaders of Klall Yisroel are "makir tov" to the IDF for being there to protect them.
Leaders of Klall Yisroel would make a Mishebeirach for the IDF!
Leaders of Klall Yisroel would condemn the Yeshivah students who are beating up Frum IDF Soldiers in Uniform!
Leaders of Klall Yisroel would tell the non-learning boys to either learn a trade or join their brothers in the army!
Leaders of Klall Yisroel would tell Yeshivah boys that they are obligated to support their wives, written and signed in the ketubah!
Leaders of Klall yisroel would tell their followers that the women belong in the home to bring up the children, instead of shlepping to work, while their husbands are kvetching the chairs in yeshivah!
Leaders of Klall Yisroel don't have interviews with the Jew Hater, Yitzchok Frankfurter from Ami Magazine!
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| The Clown Frankfurter from Ami |
We already featured Rav Rabbi Eliezer Melamed, Head of Yeshivat Har Bracha previously!
Today we will feature an exchange of letters!
Rav Pruzensky of Teaneck!
Earlier this week, I was contacted by an old friend who now lives in Israel, part of the Chareidi world. He sent me his thoughts, and I responded, and the exchange is reproduced below, with minor editing. I have deleted the friend’s name. -RSP
6 Adar II 5774, March 8, 2014
Dear Steven,
Ahead of the mass gathering of Torah true Jewry scheduled to take place tomorrow in Manhattan, I’m reaching out to you, our brothers in America, to share with you the sad truth: here, in the State of Israel, Torah Jewry is subject to religious persecution.
To classify Torah students as “criminals,” subject to imprisonment, is only the latest and most absurd of anti-chareidi laws enacted recently by the government. In addition, they have drastically cut education and welfare budgets, aiming to choke our yeshivos and schools, and even our individual religious freedoms, so prized by Americans and citizens of democracies worldwide.
Under the deceptive mantra of ‘sharing the burden’ the government is responsible for a wave of unprecedented incitement against chareidim, thereby splitting the nation. It is no secret that the objective of conscripting Torah scholars is a thinly disguised attempt at social engineering.
Is it conceivable that a Jewish government in Israel is trying to prevent its citizens from living Torah-true lives in the tradition that their ancestors for generations were moser nefesh for?
As you prepare to gather to offer heartfelt tefillos tomorrow, please remember that the train of persecution of lomdei Torah has already left the station and that there is no doubt that it is more difficult to stop a train that is already moving than to prevent it from leaving. But we must not despair and have to try to raise the alert, and to make all possible efforts to change things, before the train picks up speed. Because the route this train is heading towards leads directly to the abyss.
We know that the heart of Torah-true American Jewry beats together with its brethren in Eretz Yisrael, and senses that the danger to Torah observance in the Holy Land is a danger to the entire Jewish world. We believe that you recognize that learning and living Torah in Eretz Yisrael in holiness and purity is the basis for the existence of Torah true Yiddishkeit in Eretz Yisrael and in the Diaspora.
And therefore, grasp onto the craft of our fathers, and plead to Hashem that He protect and send salvation to all those who seek His yeshuos, so that shomrei Torah and lomdei Torah throughout will be able to continue to draw upon the eitz chaim, the tree of life, of the Torah world in Eretz Yisroel, that sustains us all.
Sincerely,
(Name deleted)
Your brother in Eretz Yisrael
(Name deleted)
Your brother in Eretz Yisrael
———————————————————————————–
Dear ———:
It is great to hear from you and I hope you and the family are well, but I must part company with you on this issue, and I will not be participating in the rally today.
In fact, I denounced it yesterday – even noted (based on a Midrash at the beginning of Vayikra) that there is such a concept of a “Talmid chacham she-ein bo da’at.”
Here is why:
Chareidim make a mistake in thinking that only the Lapid-led diehard seculars have a growing contempt for them. The dati-leumi community is also increasingly hostile, because they sense – to me, accurately – that the Chareidi community is causing hatred for Torah. It is impossible to explain to – take, for one example – my nephew, who learned in Hesder and completed his army service, why his Talmud Torah is somehow inferior to that of Chareidim. It is not. Perhaps his Talmud Torah is the same, but the Charedi world’s “Nosei b’ol im chaveiro” is completely absent. That deficiency in Ahavat Yisrael is glaring, noticed and the reason why the society at large no longer tolerates it.
It is unconscionable that there exists in the Chareidi world this idea that work and army service are beneath them, and that the rest of society which they hold in contempt must work and pay higher taxes in order to support them in order that they should sit and learn. I too would love to sit and learn, and have someone support me, but that is not the system that Hashem set up. Odd, indeed, that the Rambam’s clear statement (Hilchot Talmud Torah 3:10-11) is ignored, if it is even taught. But when he speaks of “kavah me’or hadat,” that is exactly what has happened, and solely because the Chareidi world has not fully embraced the Torah. That construct of the Chareidi world as practiced today is unprecedented in Jewish history.
The Chareidi lifestyle as currently constituted is unsustainable. Everyone knows it, even their gedolim know it – but many are afraid to speak the truth for fear of physical attacks or peer reproach. They are literally trapped in a different era, using the language of Czarist Russia, Antiochus and Purim to describe a government that is the biggest financial supporter of Torah in the world. That is not leadership. I fully endorse the notion of a Yissachar-Zevulun relationship for as long as the parties agree, but no Yissachar has the right to force someone else – the whole society? – to be a Zevulun. That is simply not part of the Torah system.
The Chareidi lifestyle as currently constituted is unsustainable. Everyone knows it, even their gedolim know it – but many are afraid to speak the truth for fear of physical attacks or peer reproach. They are literally trapped in a different era, using the language of Czarist Russia, Antiochus and Purim to describe a government that is the biggest financial supporter of Torah in the world. That is not leadership. I fully endorse the notion of a Yissachar-Zevulun relationship for as long as the parties agree, but no Yissachar has the right to force someone else – the whole society? – to be a Zevulun. That is simply not part of the Torah system.
What is wrong with all Jews participating in national defense? Or, if for whatever reason Chareidim feel they cannot, what is wrong with even Chareidim doing national service – helping out in nursing homes, teaching Torah in deprived communities, even doing chesed work for a year or two? That is known as giving back to society. One can’t only take; one must give as well. Certainly, as Rav Dessler emphasized repeatedly, giving – not taking – is the essence of the righteous person. When I learned in Israel, I thought it quite natural to participate in the national defense. I didn’t necessarily enjoy – at the time – the loss of sleep because of overnight patrols, but I am happy I did it, and only benefited from it, even in terms of Talmud Torah. How can Zaka take time off from learning to pick up the pieces, r”l, after a terrorist attack? Why can’t the same people work to thwart the terrorist attack in the first place?
Indeed, the army doesn’t really need Chareidi service as much as the Chareidim – for halachic and moral reasons – need it for themselves. But army service is mainly a portal into the work force, and that is key. The rate of employment in the Israeli Chareidi community is simply too low. The work force participation rate of adult males in Bnei Brak, Betar Illit, Kiryat Sefer, etc., is scandalous. Perhaps that is the true “war on Torah,” because the impression given that one cannot be a Torah Jew and a Talmid Chacham – and work and support one’s family – is an outrageous canard. All the Tannaim and Amoraim worked for a living. The greatest of our people – Avraham, Moshe, Yehoshua, David, etc. – all went to war when necessary. The Torah exempts four classes of people from battle: the scholar is not one of the exemptions, for Jewish wars especially require the participation of Talmidei Chachamim.
Indeed, the army doesn’t really need Chareidi service as much as the Chareidim – for halachic and moral reasons – need it for themselves. But army service is mainly a portal into the work force, and that is key. The rate of employment in the Israeli Chareidi community is simply too low. The work force participation rate of adult males in Bnei Brak, Betar Illit, Kiryat Sefer, etc., is scandalous. Perhaps that is the true “war on Torah,” because the impression given that one cannot be a Torah Jew and a Talmid Chacham – and work and support one’s family – is an outrageous canard. All the Tannaim and Amoraim worked for a living. The greatest of our people – Avraham, Moshe, Yehoshua, David, etc. – all went to war when necessary. The Torah exempts four classes of people from battle: the scholar is not one of the exemptions, for Jewish wars especially require the participation of Talmidei Chachamim.
I am inclined to agree with Rav Rakeffet of Yerushalayim: “someone who thinks that he will not be a Gaon if he serves for a short time in the military will not be a Gaon in any event.” But it is unconscionable to expect the rest of society to support a lifestyle that is alien to them, and frankly, alien to Torah. Why would a “secular” Jew be attracted to a “Torah” lifestyle that purports to demand estrangement from the general society, a cloistered abode, a rejection of general knowledge, an inability to function in the presence of women, a disdain for gainful employment and self-support, etc.? It doesn’t seem very attractive, except for one who wants to escape from the world.
I don’t believe that Chareidim should be imprisoned for refusal to serve, nor that it will ever happen. But, I note half in jest, what if it did? One can learn Torah full-time anywhere, even in prison. In fact, prison is ideal. Rav Meir Kahane hy”d wrote a 500-page sefer while he was in prison. Every Israeli prison has a fully-stocked Bet Midrash, there are regular minyanim, Magidei Shiurim come every day, the food is mehadrin, there are no women present, no distractions at all. There are regular furloughs for Yamim Tovim. The government can support them anywhere. It’s just a change in venue. I don’t underestimate the hardships of prison life, but the Israeli jail is not the Gulag to which Jews were sent for learning Torah.
That they don’t proudly embrace the consequences of defiance means there is another factor at work: as you write, there are people who perceive the actions of the government as “social engineering” designed to “prevent Chareidim from living Torah-true lives.” I don’t believe that, and the extent to which the Charedi world has alienated natural supporters and lovers of Torah should be worrisome to them. But anyone who does believe that should not insist that the government subsidize that lifestyle. I personally oppose incarceration or criminal penalties, but I also would grant no government benefits at all to people who refuse to perform any type of national service. The Chareidi educational system is also in disarray; I do not see why the government should support any school system that does not educate its students in a way that will enable them to function in society. Is that really a “Torah-true” life? I think not.
One last point, which goes to the heart of this: I have never heard of a Chareidi shul where the tefila for Tzahal is recited. Forget the tefila for the medina – but why wouldn’t they say the tefila for Tzahal? I have asked this question many times to Chareidi acquaintances, and mostly been met with stunned silence and occasionally with a muffled “the Rebbe…the Rosh Yeshiva… has never told us to say it.” It is simply inexplicable, a lack of derech eretz, hakarat hatov, and common sense.
What a Kiddush Hashem it would be if the Charedi leadership announced today that, it still rejects conscription, but henceforth it will daven for Tzahal every week! That would go a long way to easing tensions, perhaps not with Yair Lapid and his cohorts but with the Dati-Leumi Torah community that you are rapidly losing.
I love all Torah Jews and I hate all distortions of Torah. The Chareidi Torah world has so much to offer, and I refuse to accept this prevailing notion that they need to treated like handicapped children with special needs, that they are unable to live and interact with normal people. I reject that. I will treat them like precious Jews but like adults: those who are poreish min hatzibur should not be shocked or disheartened when the tzibur is in turn poreish from them. The Chareidi world, on some level, perceives itself as a self-contained community that can insulate itself from the greater society which it holds (at least in some aspects, understandably) in contempt. But then don’t be surprised when that same society – which feels the contempt – then decides it no longer wishes to subsidize or indulge that community.
With friendship, all blessings and wishes for nachat v’chul tuv,
Steven Pruzansky
Your Brother in America
47 comments:
Know your place, and bury your head in shame. And wake up fast and do teshuvah.
I did wake up and I did do tesuvah, That's why I wrote this article to start a movement to bring back the Torah !
Finally.Someone trying to bring the truth out.People like Rabbi Pruzansky are what true Judaism is all about.
This whole system of not working is rotten to the core and is causing untold suffering for normal middle class families who do not have the money to play this lifestyle and have to resort of conniving tricks to live it. The sense of entitlement that is passed on to the next generation is apalling.
Go to any frum neighborhood and you will see 90% of people whipping out their benefit cards to pay for their food and then drive off in their fancy 2014 cars.
Is this what a Torah lifestyle is supposed to be built on?
It is time to take back the Judaism of our grandparents who understood that a man goes to work to support his family and not subject his wife to becoming a brainwashed breeding slave.
In the summer of '37 at the third Kenesia gedolah of the rabbinical leaders of Agudath Israel held in Marienbad, which included hundreds of rabbis, heads of yeshiva religious academies and grand rabbis of Chassidic communities from a number of countries. Rabbi Aharon Kotler attended this convention.
From the journal Hapardes (Year 11, Issue 7) describing the convention:
“Rabbi Wasserman, Rabbi Kotler, Rabbi Rottenberg from Antwerp, and rabbis from Czechoslovakia and Hungary were unanimous in rejecting any proposal for a “Jewish State” on either side of the Jordan River, even if it were established as a religious state because such a regime would be a form of heresy in our faith in the belief in the coming of the Messiah, and especially since this little “Jewish” state would be built on heresy and desecration of the Name of G-d.
The late Rabbi Shlomo Rottenberg (a historian and author of Toldos Am Olam and other works), who also attended the Convention in '37 used to say that he could still remember what was discussed there, and the harsh opposition of these rabbinical leaders to a “Jewish State” that is a violation of the Three Oaths mentioned in the Talmud. (Rabbi A.L. Spitzer)
Rav Chaim Soloveichik (d. 1918) was probably the world's leading anti-Zionist, and that means religious and non-religious Zionism both. His son, Rav Yitzchok Zev Soloveichik, the Brisker Rav (d. 1959), was perhaps the most anti-Zionist of all the Gedolim in the world, equal or close to Satmar. His Yeshiva, and his children’s' and grandchildren’s' Yeshivos to this day refuse to take money from the Zionist government, and Briskers refuse even to vote in the Zionist elections. The Brisker Rav said that the main spiritual "war" in today's generation is against the Zionists (he said that if not for Zionism, the main war of today’s generation would be against Lubavitch).
The following is Rav Henkin's real position on the matter as he himself wrote:
"I opposed with all my might the creation of the Medinah, and that is why, even though I am in spirit close to the people of the Agudah, I am not part of their organization in order that I should not be suspected that I agreed with them to the creation of the Medinah" *
"Dechikas Haketz [i.e. one of the three Oaths - not to "pressure the time of the geulah - Mod] pushes the time of Geulah further away, and because the different types of Baryonim wielded the sword and participated in various rebellions, one thing led to another and the result was that we lost the majority of our nation, who were killed through horrible deaths, the like of which has never been seen in all of history, and thousands of holy congregations were razed to the ground, and b'avonoseinu harabim it has fueled the warning of Chazal - "and if not [i.e. if you do not follow the Three Oaths - Mod], then I shall permit your flesh to be hunted like game in the field" - Hashem should have mercy on those who survived."
See Kisvei Rav Henkin vol 2 5719 #109, vol 2 in the haskomos, vol. 1 #206, vol. 2 p. 103
He also adds about how Jews are not allowed to be involved in wars and our approach should be totally one of submission, and how the Baryonim are still involved in antagonizing the nations.
(PS - statements by Rav Henkin that he was not anti-the yishuv and the like are of course not related to creating a Medinah in the slightest)
* He is referring to the "vote" that the Agudah took where the greatest Gedolim, such as Rav Ahron Kotler and Rav Elchonon Wasserman who were there - (and it should be noted that together with them held Rav Chaim Ozer and the Brisker Rav and Chazon Ish who weren’t there altogether) - were "outvoted" by a greater number of much lesser Rabbonim.
Rabbi Yaakov Weinberg (Ner Yisroel) said:
With regards to the medinah-how can a Jew who believes in the Ribono shel olam relate to the medina? It is anti-God from its inception.
When they proclaimed the State of Israel they made it clear, officially, that there is no God of Israel.
The only other nation in the world that followed this path was Communist Russia. These were the only two countries in the world who, in proclaiming their freedom, refused to mention God.
As a compromise, they accepted "Tzur Yisroel," the Rock of Israel, so that it should not, chas v'shalom, be the God of Israel or of the world.
"Tzur" gives everybody the option to interpret it any way they want. You cannot relate to a medinah that is built on such a premise.
You have to understand more deeply. The medinah not only rejects God but also rejects the whole history of K'lal Yisroel since the churban until the establishment of the State.
The "galut mentality" is not only deprecated but is also dealt with contempt, and all those years of K'lal Yisroel's mesiras nefesh, harbatzas Torah, building and creating, are looked at as an aberration and are rejected.
How can you relate to a medinah that does that? We cannot. We can relate to the Jews in Eretz Yisroel-frum or not-to their needs, their safety, their financial well being.
But to the State-it is impossible for a Jew who has a Ribono shel olam, a Jew who has a respect for 2000 years of Jewish history, to relate to the medinah.
It is impossible. So we have to speak about Eretz Yisroel, about its importance and preciousness, and about the waiting of all of K'lal Yisroel to come back to it, without dealing with the medinah. We cannot deal with the medinah! It is impossible!
I am just going to ask a question and I am sorry if it will offend someone, I really would like not to.
How can a Jew celebrate a Yom Ha'atzmaut, the day of the proclamation of the State of Israel that rejects God as being involved?
I would ask you to think a minute and see whether you can think of a greater chilul Hashem that has occurred in all the history of K'lal Yisroel, from creation until the day that the proclamation was made, than the proclaiming of a State of Israel without God?
The United States is under God; England in under God; France is under God... Communist Russia and Israel are not under God! I am asking you in all honesty, can you think of a deeper, more far-reaching chilul Hashem that has ever taken place in the history of the world than that-than Jews officially rejecting God? This is an awesome chilul Hashem.
If we had a bais din it would be a day of fasting and mourning. It would be a Tisha B'av. A day in which a Jewish state was proclaimed by officially rejecting God is literally a Tisha B'av, a churban she'ain kamohu.
I am asking you to be a little honest-how can you celebrate a day that such a chilul Hashem took place?
The truth is the truth; I do not know how you can live with it.
Rav Avigdor Miller ZTVK”L
Awake My Glory
Paragraphs 345-355
345. To fill the hollow caused by the lack of Torah, the straying multitude created a substitute in the form of Zionism. This counterfeit Judaism, together with Marxism and Bundism, overwhelmed the last generation of Eastern Europe; and since the emergence of the State of Israel the Zionists have made themselves the spokesmen for the Jewish people and claim to be their saviors.
In the sefer KARYANA DEIGRATA letter # 205. The Steipler States:
the title of the letter states: "The issue of whether the 3 Oaths forbid PARTICIPATING IN ELECTIONS" i.e. The Steipler ZT"L is only addressing whether the oaths make it assur to participate in voting & gov't now that the medinah has already been established (ex post facto). the Steipler says in this letter & I quote (parentheses are mine):
"The claim of the Satmar Rov ZT"L (that it is assur to vote etc.. due to the oaths) is not understood.....because ALTHOUGH M'TICHILA HUYUH SH'LOH K'DIN (i.e. although the original creation of the medinah was unjustified - against torah) now that the medinah exists & is the only "Shiltohn" (ruling power) there is no issur to participate in elections, gov't etc..(in order to accomplish damage control by not allowing the irreligious to set policy)
Furthermore in letter # 203 he says that although there is no halachik issur in participating in the gov't, he admires the Neturei Karta for their position not to participate, because although it’s not assur, it exhibits a certain zealotry for what is right. (hardly a ringing endorsement for the permissibility of the creation of the state)
Furthermore in letter 203, he says the idea that the medinah is "Aschalta D'Geula" (beginning of geula) is a mistake; rather it is "the transformation of ONE GALUS TO A MORE BITTER GALUS.
Rav Shach ZTL (letters)
The State puts Jews in danger by increasing anti-Semitism around the world:
“We see clearly how idea has gone bankrupt. Where they thought that through this [State] Jewish respect will be increased among the nations, eliminating anti-Semitism, the opposite it true. The hate has grown even greater, and all the rallies and protests are purposeless and totally useless. For at whom are they directing their protests? At those who hate us! For the rule is “Esav soneh es Yaakov”.” (Rav Shach, Letters, I:1)
The existence of the State was predicted by Chazal:
“The very establishment of the State and its continued existence the way it is, surely is part of Hashems Hashgachah like everything else in the world, and according to all the signs it was foretold by Chazal in Mesechta Sotah regarding what will happen during Ikvesa D’Meshichah, for all of the signs have been completely fulfilled by the Medinah without anything missing, … all the signs have been fulfilled in the management of the State and its laws …
(a) And their assembly places will become houses of prostitution’
(b) ‘children have no booshah for their parents, daughters will rebel against their mothers,
(c) those who fear G-d will be disgraced,
(d) the truth will be hidden
(e) leaders will desire falsehood (Letters I:2)
In the days of the Chazon Ish's father, there was a certain rabbi who became a Zionist, and was planning on going to the Zionist Congress. When the Chazon Ish's father, who was the Rav of the town, heard about this, he told this rabbi not to go, and he even made him swear an oath that he would not go to the Zionist Congress. Eventually the Zionist rabbi realized his mistake and he gave up Zionism and became a Yorei Shamayim.
They asked the Chazon Ish why such a person would honor his oath not to participate in Zionist undertakings - since, according to him, he believes that participating in the Zionist congress is a Mitzvah for the sake of Yishuv Eretz Yisroel, and so taking an oath that prevents him form participating would constitute an oath to prevent himself from doing a Mitzvah, which is invalid?
The Chazon Ish answered, the Mishna says (Yoma 1:5) that they made the Koehn Gadol swear that he would not follow the Tzedukim. The Pri Chadash asks why would such an oath mean anything - if the man is a Tzeduki, he holds their ways are a Mitzvah, and the oath would be invalid since it would prevent him from doing a Mitzvah.
The answer, said the Chazon Ish, is that the sinner, i.e. the tzeduki, is not a man with an opinion that tzadukiism is correct. Rather, he is simply following his Yetzer Horah to do bad, but deep down, he knows he's wrong. therefore, making an oath will stop him.
So too with the Zionists, said the Chazon Ish - even though the Yetzer Horah seduces them by telling him it is connected to the Mitzvah of Yishuv Eretz Yisroel, and other nice words, but in the depths of their hearts, they know the truth, that Zionism is Kefirah and meenus and it is a deviation from the Torah's way, and they know that such an oath (against Zionism) is not against the Torah, but rather a real legitimate oath. (Orchos Rabeinu vol.4 p.189)
Truelitvak- It appears that you have a lot of spare time on your hands to author, or at least cut and paste from others, so many different opinions why you are right and everyone else is wrong. My question is did you stop your learning in the beis medresh to put this all together, or is this all you do?
My heart cries for you and I am truly sorry to see that you are so bitter. I hope and pray that when you get a chance you show the bare minimum of hakaras Hatov to the gov't, which while clearly evil, in your eyes, supports so many with stipends and grants. I also suggest that if the source of the grant/stipends that you receive is truly evil, as you suggest, then, just as we were commanded not to take of even the property of amalake, and Shaul was taken to task for this, similarly you should reject any monies that come from so evil a government.
I wish you well.
Unconvinced by your article, in New York
The author of this Bog wrote:
"Even the Litvisha Roshei Yeshiva are now adapting the Neturei Karta ideology. Rav Aaron Kotler is turning in his grave!"
As you can see he is woefully clueless re: the position of Rav Kotler & the prev generation of Litvisha Roshei Yeshiva
I'm bitter?? Who is comparing Roshei Yeshiva to Joseph Goebbels, Minister of Propaganda in Nazi Germany??
I will Anwser truelitvak as it came in
Answer to 12:08
The fact that they were opposed to it is irelevant
Because the facts are that the State exists despite their opposition!
IT seems that the רבש״ע wanted the State, despite the Rabbis
True, litvak 12:11
You write
That " if it wasnt For Zionism the Main war of today's world be Lubavitch"
If this in fact true that the Brisker Rav said that
Then anything he ever said cannot be taken seriously
>>Because the facts are that the State exists despite their opposition!
IT seems that the רבש״ע wanted the State
The holocaust also "exists" does that prove we should celebrate it bec the רבש״ע wanted it???
Truelitvak 12:13
Again Rav Henkin's teshuvah is now absolite since the State of Israel is now a fact!
The 3 oaths Are akso absolite since 1 of those oaths depend on the gentiles not torturing us, once they violated this oath, witness our bloody Jewish history, the 3 oaths are null and void!
Besides this, Reb Yaakov Me'emdin wrote in his introduction that the צרות that klall Yisroel have and will have is because they are not moving to Israel
I will remove your comments that intterupt. Me
Što Wait till i answer your narishkeitin
Truelitvak 12:18
There were very few Jewish frum governments, since Shlomo Hamelech,
Never did any member of Anshei knesses Yisroel or a Tannah or any Rav ever spew the hate that you just parroted in this post!
Ezra Hasofer begged the people from Bavel to make Aliyah .... Who lived in Eretz Yisroel at that time?
assimilated jews! Yet he felt that everyone should return, only 5,000 returned That's why we are in this mess!
In my Siddur צור means the רבש״ע so I don't know what the hell you Are babbling about !
I told to stop post ih till im done do i will now remove your posto until i ma finished
Truelitvak
12:20
So?
They Made themselves the spokesman ? so?
You should be the spokesman?
Were you the spokesman when the zionists saved a Plane load of Jews in Uganda?
Of do you want the Satmar guys to be the spokesmen?
You call yourself truelitvak . Which litvak world you appoint as your spokesman?
True.itvak 12:22
Anybody that admires the Neturei Karta
Is a רשע
And is in the category of a רודף
So i eont comment further on this Crazy post
Truelitvak 12:24
You quote Rav Shach?
Rav Shach sent a letter to all Yeshivos that they should not issue a פטור to the IDF to any בחור that is not learning
See my last weeks post with a Copy of that letter!
The existence of the State was predicted by Chazal?
So All the rabbonim at Marinbard were wrong!
I will now remove All your posts since u Are not following my rules
Truelitvak 12:27
I dont believe that story happened!
Tell me the naime of that Rav?
The fact is that the State of Israel is a fact. More Torah is being learned in the State of Israel then in the entire Jewish History!
The Israeli government were the biggist supporters of Torah until they got bashed in the the teeth from guys Like truelitvak!
Comes this "smarkatch" and talks worse about Israel than the Meraglim .... This guy is going in the שאול תחתית של גיהינם and its People Like him that כלל ישראל is in this bitter גלות
Whether or not you agree with him it shows . I've seen much worse comments about other issues on this blog that you dont delete. Only about this subject you decide to delete comments? And he's going to שאול תחתית של גיהינם?? Please.
To my readers
Truelitvak in his posts said "that if not for the war on Zionisim the main war today would be against Lubavitch"
I had some time to think about that, and I am not a Lubavitcher ...... but if the Brisker Rav made that statement, and I believe he did, then all Brisker Torahs should be burned.
truelitvak added that there were other Gedolim that said similar things, i believe he is right on that too...
Because i heart these statements in Yeshivas that I attended!
My theory is ..... That it is because of the attitudes of these Gedolim that we are losing the spiritual war with our children. When you have learned Roshe Yeshivah mocking other Frum Jews and innocent children hearing these comments .... We lose them!
I believe that these gedolim are the reason for our long and bitter גלות.
When we have a guy Like truelitvak repeating these discusting remarks .... what hope is there for our future?
They have breeded haters like truelitvak who parrot the hateful words of his sick demented Roshei Yeshiva... They have Gemorras to back these demented ideas.... and they will find and quote other so called haters...
Hitler must be laughing his head off!
To anon 6:43
I never delete any comments
I deleted his because I warned him to let me answer his comments.... he refused and kept making comments
He didn't follow my rules.... Its my blog
If he wants to make his own blog he can then make his own rules
Did you just call the brisker rav sick and demented?
I will not debate on who is right or whose opinion does not suit you.
I just want to say that in spite of the fact that I know rabbi Pruzansky personally and think he is a wonderful person and is suitable to be a spiritual leader in Teaneck, NJ (which many of his congregants disagree on that statement) Klal Yisroel simply can not be lead by one who chooses to be known by a goyshe name. Perhaps you do no not believe the Chazal who told us that klal Yisroel was redeemed because they did not change their JEWISH NAMES, their Jewish language or their Jewish dress. It is not fitting or respectful for A leader of Klal Yisroel to mow his lawn in his shorts or go by the name Steve. Plain and simple. I am not attacking Steve Pruzansky who is a nice guy , means well is Pro Israel but sadly is only fit to be a shul rabbi in Teaneck, even Lipa Schmeltzer goes by his Jewish name in Airmont. Each person is suitable for a certain position, Rabbi Pruzansky in Teaneck, Lipa in Airmont and Rav Shteinman as the outstanding gadol of world Jewry. Rav Shteinman who at his age is moser nefesh for Klal Yisroel standing at the helm of the Torah world and he does not go by the name Albert as Moshe Rabeinu did not go by the name Mauricio or Muhamed
To TrueLitvak :
The rabbonim you quote were unfortunately all wrong.
The 3 shvuos, my friend, is an AGGADATAH. We don't pasken from an Aggadeteh. In addition, there is a different girseh in one of the words which completely changes the meaning of the shvuah. Obviously, Hashem wants Israel and performs miracles every single moment. To deny them is outright kfirah and apikorsus.
Your point about Israel bringing on more anti-Semitism is patently absurd and dishonest. What about the Holocaust and hundreds of years of pogroms? Litvak.... The minute the Torah was given to us, anti-Semitism flourished. Har SINAI--- meaning Sinah came to the world because of this event. The sad history of the Jewish Diaspora has nothing to do with Zionism, or are you blind??
To the poster who is hot and bothered by "Steven" , please listen. Moshe ia a goyishe Egyptian name. Moshe Rabbeinu had a bunch of other Jewish names which he is NOT known by. You are misinterpreting the Jewish name . It means that one must have a Jewish name as the ikur. Which I'm sure R' Pruzansky has.
Bottom line: There are good Zionists and lousy ones, just like good Satmar/Lakewood/ Brisk ones and pathetic anti-Israel demonic-possessed ones. There were those Zionists who didn't want Torah, there were those who wanted it and then those in the middle.
You are denying a fact that exists. Israel B"H exists, is growing, and as I said , nissim b'chol yom. Stop living in a fantasy world of yesteryear. Remember: There were 10 big tzaddikim who urged Jews NOT to enter the Land and spoke loshon horah against it. Only 2... Kolev'l and Yehoshah'le spoke in favor. Who was right? 10 against 2... For this aveira , we are still suffering.
My advice:
Do tshuvah, stop this anti-Israel campaign because in any case it will avail you nothing. The great G-D has ordained it, with or without your rabbis' approval , is sustaining it and wants us to support it. The opposite shitah is false and enrages Hashem. Do tshuvah, stop drinking the toxic Kool-Aide and don't walk and dance in the discredited paths of even well-meaning rabbis of yesteryear who were totally and forever WRONG... Listen instead to the rational Zionist rabbis who acknowledge and thank Hashem for this miracle called Medinat Yisrael.
Addendum: Consider also the possible fact that anti-Israeli sentiments from some rabbis indicate a geiveh, a megalomaniacal control- frekish streak. They fear Israel. Why? Same reason as the Meraglim: Fear of loss of control of their shleppers who may leave them and spread out in the Holy Land leaving them and their courts to themselves. This was the Meraglim's real reason. This too, is the reason why this venomous foaming-of-the mouth hate and cursing comes from. They FEAR Israel and don't like..... You know whom... I shudde rto write whom...
I forgot to mention that in any case the three shvuos don't apply to Israel. There isn't a single shvuo that they violated. The girseh that I mnetioned says the word "Yidcheku" instead of 'Yircheku" which entirely changes the meaning of the word.
In any case, do yourself a favor and read Eym Habonim Semeich by Harav Hatzaddik , R' Yissochar Shlomo Teichtal, Hahem Yimkom Domo who answers all your questions and debunks all the anti-Israel sentiments.
Expanding on my comment above about anti-Semitism....The very fact that we're Jews brings out the anti-Semites and it has nothing to do with Israel. According to the poster's stunning illogic, Moshe and Yehoshua brought on anti-Semitism from Amalek, Cannan, Pelishtim, etc because they sought to enter Eretz Yisroel. So, according to you , they should have stayed in the midbar forever. This, don't you see, is exactly what the Meraglim preached. ' Ki Chazak Mimenu"... meaning... you'll cause Jew-hatred. AND of course, we know that "Mimenu" also meant Hashem. Yes, my friends, this is what happens when you hate Eretz Yisroel. It leads to hatred of H.....
In general, a voice, a bas-kol echoed during the middle 18oos. Jews ! Come back to EY... to where you belong. The religious for the most part did not heed the cry from Heaven. The irreligious, many of them, did. So Hashem built this holy land through them because , you, the religious, you the chareidim , you the frummies HATED this sweet holy land. You used the holy Torah and made little Toyreh'lech and svoros to keep you in blood soaked Eastern Europe. You saw and felt the pogroms, you saw the ovens in Auschwitz, your grandparents were tortured and burned there, but it made no difference in you ice-cold frozen hearts. In a few years , 1948, Hashem had pity on his people and in an act unprecedented in the annals of written or oral history, brought back a people from the dead. What a miracle !!! But you continue to refuse to see. You're blind! You're busy with chumrahs, and hate-spewing, with demonstrations and besmirching. Midvar Sheker Tirchak is an open D'Oreiseh that you are oyver over and over again., . You lie about the state. The awful things about HISTORICAL facts and details written by R' Joel Teitelbaum in his Al Hagulah V'al Hatmurah is childish and mindboggling. The facts that he misinterprets about the Nazi period and Six Day War are stunning , yet you Kool-Aid drinking robots swallow this whole without thinking or challenging the facts, You exaggerate the bad things done by a few Zionists and negate and ignore the good; volumes of good.The absorption, operations to save Jews from Yemen, giving $$$ to Torah yeshivos etc... etc...... You are Kofuy Tovah'nikis. From where did you learn this sheker achzorios???
The miracle of Purim happened through a marriage between Esther and a gentile, an act for which some parents sit shiva. Can you understand THAT? Yehuda's liason with Tamar rsulted in the ancestor of Moshiach. Can you understand THAT? Koiresh, the gentile king was instrumental in rebuilding the Bais Hamikdash. Can yoy understand THAT? No... So you certainly can't understand why the irreligious have succeeded in building out holy land. Maybe it's because Hashem saw that in their hearts there was a kernel of Ahavas Eretz Yisroel which , the frummies DON"T have. Too bad...
It doesn't matter. Medinat Yisrael is here... Hodu LaShem Ki TOv Ki Leolam Chasdo... forever and ever......
To Anon 1:32
You are a "Zedreita Breah" about your ignorant comment about Rabbi Steve Pruzensky having a Goyishe name!
There were Tanaim and Amorim who had Goyishi names...for example... R' Alexander (a greek name)
R' Hirkonis, R' avtalyoin,etc etc
To My readers: A Question?
We know that the Vilna Gaon was on his way to make Aliya, he sold his house and was on the way he had to turn back because of illness, but his talmidim did in mass make aliya and set up shop in Yerushelayim
The Baal Shem Tov was on his way to making Aliya but couldn't but his chassidim did succeed and went to Zfat and Teveryeh
The Chofetz Chayim wanted very much to make aliya, but the Russian revolution stopped his plans
So they didn't hold from the "Sholish Shevuois?"
Apparently not!
The reason is because once the Goyim violated their oath not to persecute us, the Shevuois are null and void!
Even the Israel hater the Brisker Rav made aliyah, if he doesn't like the Medina let him move to Lakewood!
The blog administrator is correct. Wwe need to revolt against the leaders who are trying to shut down pro-Zionist voices. Listen..... Israel is a miraculous fact. The lomdus about the 3 shvuoas don't apply. The now defunct League of Nations and its successor, the UN, voted to create a Jewish state. In other words the world approved it. No B'Choma or anything like that. Stop lying already. You're a frum crowd, you in Lakewood and on Lee Ave. You're supposed to tell the truth not propaganda.
It's a painful thing , I know , for those who still bring in the anti-Zionist Torahs of rabbonim from years ago. Do a cheshbon Hanefesh and open your eyes, They were wrong..!!!!!! They were not prophets.
For those who pretend that since they're not taking money from the State , they have a right to curse it, remember this:
Who provides piping into your toilet so you can flush? Who paves your streets, who delivers your mail? Who stands on the borders and spills , bood, guts and lives for you so you can sit and do nothing? Who?? Who??
The Satmar/Lakewood/ Brisk/ Flatbush shittah is a primitive uneducated, non-realistic bombardment of venom not based on my Torah. Thousands of you have been brainwashed by people who albeit are talmidei chachamim and whose words you never question ,are nevertheless chasser deiyah. Don't bring me another proff of some "gadol" who is a clone for the meraglim.
Any denial of the Holy Land is a denial of the Holy Torah. Stop kidding yourselves with 'memros" from this rav or another rav, if they contradict the flaming reality of Medinat Yisrael and where nissim take place literally every second. Change your life..!!! Leave the Meraglim en masse. Go Rabbi Melamed..! Holy and revered Harav Kook.. !! Where are you when we need you? Please Hashem,, Give us leaders who care and desire your holy land.. Hashem Ivo Lemoshav Luh..!!! Tzityo,,,
Mr. Litavk,
You complain that the Zionists treat the Galut mentality with contempt. They should. Galut is a curse, as you well know. The Tochecha: " V'huyeesu meshugah memerei eynechu" is a curse. When Hashem gave us back Eretz Yisroel , he wanted us to leave the Galut mentality . The Galut mentality unfortunately still possesses people like you who want to stay here in Galut until Moshiach comes.
That Moshiach is the one who will lead us out of Galut is debatable. See Ramban and various sources in Nach by the Radak. They opine there there will a yishuv in EY BEFORE Moshiach comes. See Radak specifically at the beginning of Hoshea where he puts forth that Eliyahu Hanavi will do the job and Moshiach will apppear later when Jews are already living in EY.
So you see, we have no clear-cut mesorah on Moshiach. It will remain a mystery until he comes.
Hence, based on this fact, it is criminal to delegimitisize Israel because your sources are not inviolable. It is an aveirah to curse, harass and beat other Jews based on your sources which are not absolute. See Mesichte Sanhedrin where Hashem says that the final geulah with Moshiach is something that He never even whispered to anybody. See Daniel who after his great visions about the end of days confesses that he does not understand them.
It is a period of time that not even the great Tzaddikim of the past foresaw or knew. But we, our generation , are so priviliged to see the beginning of Redemption and leave our psychotic Galut mentality behind us once and for all. Yes Litvak, there is such as thing as Galut mentality and it is contemptible.
Dear truelitvak:
Suck it up! You had a chance to be a majority when the Aliyah movements were in full gear. You didn't want to go, you said it's Assur. Millions of Jews were murdered. You still didn't go. You're bringing pshetlach about the 3 oaths, this rav, that rav, this source, that sourse, blah, blah , blah. It's not too late. Make Aliyah and bring thousands more with you who think the same. Then you'll vote yourselves in and make the Medinah kosher the way you like. You didn't go, you lost and now you're on a street corner babbling away with Litvish/Lakewood/Brisk lomdus'es discrediting the Medinah.
To the question by Dusizneias:
The stories of the tzaddikim that you write about who wanted but were unable to make Aliyah speaks volumes. While their efforts were unsuccessful, ours , if we dsesire it can be very successful. Hashem opened the gates... !!! For US..!!!! He says, " Come to my land now, the Hischaltu D'gulah is here... Eym Habonim Semeichu... The mother ( Israel) and her children ( Jews ) are now to come together.
What was almost impossible once is now possible. Is this not a miracle???? Who but venom-spewing haters cannot see this open miracle???
The Chazal say that the air of Golus is tamei. Let me reword that. They made a GEZEIRAH that the lands in golus is tamei.
You know what I mean? Yes, even Lakewood and Rodney St. in Williamsburgh. Tomei. Understand? Unclean..
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