DIN: This is very interesting. Rav Elimelech Kornfeld, the respected rav of the Gra Shul in RBSA said there was absolutely nothing wrong with this "as there is no prohibition in the entire Shulchan Aruch."
I myself have attended hundreds of Hachnasas Sefer Torahs and I have witnessed in Brooklyn at least 6 times where the lady did "Gelilah". In all those cases, the Hachanassas Sefer Torah ceremonies were in Chassidishe circles!
In fact the commentaries on the Shulchan Aruch question whether a woman can get an Aliyah, and the halachic conclusion is that one should not give a woman an Aliyah because it is not "Kavod hatzibbur" but that discussion is all about an Aliya, I doubt "gelilah" would fall into this category of "kavod hatzibbur," and this was not during davening, this was a private ceremony.
For those who say that one should not question Rav Shternbach, well why don't you address Satmar who pelted Rav Shernbuch with eggs and stones when he visited Williamsburg for a simcha, four years ago.? Why don't you guys question the Eida Hachreidies themselves whose majority do not accept or recognize him as the Gaavad, and insult him on a daily basis?
I think that with all due respect to Rav Shernbuch, he should have said that he is opposed but will defer to the local Rav who permitted it! But to say that people should "disassociate from them and it will be good for us and for our children," is a far stretch and something that a rav should never say!
"Disassociate?" is this going to foster Ahavas Yisrael? I think not!
The Head of the Rabbinical Court of the Eida Haharedis (Jerusalem charedi Council), Rabbi Moshe Sternbuch, sharply condemned the synagogue officials at a Lithuanian shul in Ramat Beit Shemesh who honored a woman with “Gelilah,” the ceremonial wrapping of a Torah scroll.
The incident took place during a Torah dedication ceremony at a synagogue in Ramat Bet Shemesh Daled. A video that was posted to social media this week shows the woman, who apparently is involved in the donation of the new Torah scroll, closing and dressing the Torah scroll in the sanctuary as men surround her.
The synagogue officials claim they received a dispensation from one of the local rabbis, but the rabbi ( the liar) denied the claim.
Rabbi Sternbuch voiced his opposition and even referred to the modern-charedi community as “a community with charedi roots,” hinting that a charedi community would not have permitted such an incident to occur.
“Every heart here trembled when we heard that a community with charedi roots sank so low and honored a woman with Gelilah, and published that it had raised the honor of the Torah and the honor of the charedi woman,” he wrote.
He ended his words with a harsh statement: “Brothers of the house of Israel, we will disassociate from them, and it will be good for us and for our children.”
Okay, first look at it from Rav Sterbuch's general position - a woman who is outside the kitchen is already outside her natural boundaries. A woman outside the house and walking in the street where her natural, boundless sexuality will cause all the men walking past her to immediately sin with their bodies is, chaliah, asking for the destruction of the world. So certainly a woman standing on the bimah surrounded by men who are (just look at them in the video!) now sinning greviously with thoughts of her is intolerable.
ReplyDeleteHe might be right, he might be wrong.
ReplyDeleteBut, may I ask, does he not have any other worries "to make his heart tremble" from?
The country is torn apart by the leftists' insurgence - that doesn't seem to qualify for a "trembling heart".
Nor the vicious internecine fight in the biggest Chassidus in Israel, all good and fine.
But on second thought, I do get it: He is preaching to the choir.
And women's issues are the ones that the choir is busy with.
Rav Kook has a responsa on this.He prohibited coming near the women's section for women to even give it a kiss
ReplyDeleteIgnorant American rabbbi
Pardon .The responsa was from R Charlap quoting his mentor
ReplyDeleteI’ve been involved with SifreiTorah writing (on the fundraising for the Torah side). Of course the women in the family of the donor wanted to be part of it - the Torah was written l’zecher nishmas their father/mother etc. in these cases the Torah was completed in the home of the donor with the immediate family there - not in shul - and any involvement was thus much quieter and not in front of the public. I think that even though there’s no written Issur , it was a mistake to do it in shul, in front of the Aron Kodesh, with a bunch of men standing around - just not a good look.
ReplyDeleteI am actually a big fan of Rav Shternbach, but I think that it this very ruling that shows that our gedoilim are completely out of touch with the regular guy who works all day, comes home, grabs a bite and runs to the Daf.
ReplyDeleteThe Gedoilim are not speaking for the "pushiter yid" that doesn't give a hoot about this psak, and if he and his wife are fortunate enough to put some some money together and write a sefer torah, you can bet your last dollar that his wife will be part of this simcha and do "gellila" in private or even in public.
The guy who went to Rav Shternbuch to snitch and have this old man write a letter will go to hell. The people there who took the video thought that the wife doing "gelillah" was cute and saw fit to post this on the INTERNET!
Despite the letter of Rav Shternbuch, it was a beautiful and touching to see a lady that will never ever be called to the Torah, do a gesture that displays her love for the Torah unlike the sick bastard that snitched.
There is nothing in Rav Shternbuch's psak that shows any love either for the Torah that he represents or those fortunate enough to learn it.
Dear Readers
ReplyDeleteI am outraged by this psak, actually.
This week hundreds of Chareidim surrounded the car of Aliza Bloch, the mayor of Beit Shemesh, threw rocks, damaged her car, and almost killed her as the police had to come to rescue her.
Rav Shternbuch did not take the time to write a letter!
Last week, Chareidim went and pepper sprayed into the eyes, a guy, who had a KOSHER Cell Phone store!
Rav Shternbuch did not take the time to write a letter!
Every single night, Chareidim damage millions of Shekels worth of equipment working on the Rakevet Kal... this is every single night!
This week alone, we learned in the Israeli Chiloinie press about melamdim arrested for sexually assaulting their students. Not one, but at least three that I know of.
Ein koi; Ve' Ein Oina!
Rav Shernbuch should stick to his battles with his own Eida Hachreidis who are mutinying against him!
There were at least two rabbanim in attendance who are the rabbanim in RBSD where this took place. No one had a problem with it until a chareidie who shouldn't be surfing the internet saw the video and ran like a sick snake to report it!
Pnei Doro ke"pnei Kelev! Not my words!
No. We as a community can't let a woman do that . it's against the mesoireh.
ReplyDeleteWe have to think what would the chasam sofer or chazon ish etc say to that..
What other issues Rabbi sternbuch should talk about are irrelevant and childish.
Stand back a little and you will see this is the definition of a cult.
ReplyDelete10:33
ReplyDeleteI say that both the Chasam Sofer and the Chazon Ish would definitely have allowed it.
It's not in the mesorah? It's not in the mesorah to eat potato kugel either!
Potatoes were discovered just 200 years ago.
Mesorah has to start somewhere, so it starts now? What's the problem?
Ridiculous.
DeleteWager any amount
They emphatically would have forbade such a thing
To quote the latter when asked for a source:source is right here in my heart
Yea.sure.what's gonna be next. That
DeleteBet Hillel was a non orthodox liberal
Hey Din. You made a little mistake. The issue of it not being Kavod HaTzibur is if the woman does the Kriah for the Tzibur. There is No problem of Kavod HaTzibur for a woman to get an Aliyah if she doesn’t read from the Torah for the Tzibur. Check out the Shulchan Aruch.
ReplyDeleteActually there is acc.to the Rav
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