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| R' Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld |
The guru of the anti-Zionists is the late Rabbi Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld who was the leader of the Eida Hacharedis in Yerushalyim.
R' Sonnenfeld heard another rabbi speaking about a Jew that supposedly went off the derech and was Mechallel Hashem in public and so this rabbi cursed him ... calling him "Yemach Shmo" translated as "may his name be obliterated.
R' Sonnenfelf started screaming at the rabbi :
"Chas Ve'Sholom .... it is prohibited to say that about another Jewish person and it is in fact against Halacha!
We see in Halacha that if a person who does not observe Jewish law and he dies without children, his living brother is required to either marry his dead brother's wife .. Yeebum .... or give her Chalitzah. And the reason behind this Torah requirement is that his dead brother's name not be forever obliterated....and you curse him saying "May his name be obliterated?" Yemach Shmo??
Who appointed you as Hashem's advisor and to curse this fellow and say Yemach Shmo?
Instead why don't you pray that he repent?
If the names of Ahaz, Menasheh and Amnon would have been obliterated, G-D Forbid, how would Moshiach be born?"
Yet there are many people who comment on this blog and call Moreinu Harav Avraham Yitzchok Kook z"l, who was a Tzaddik Tamim, and a huge Talmud Chochum .... "Yemach Shmo"....
Readers don't usually see these comments because I delete them, but some pass through ......
The guru of the anti-Zionists is the late Rabbi Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld who was the leader of the Eida Hacharedis in Yerushalyim.
דברי תורה
?האם מותר לומר על יהודי רחוק ימח שמו
הרב יוסף חיים זוננפלד, רבה של העדה החרדית בירושלים, שמע פעם את אחד הרבנים מדבר על פלוני שיצא לתרבות זרה וחילל שם שמיים ברבים, ומקלל אותו נמרצות באמרו: "ימח שמו!".
רבי יוסף חיים זוננפלד נזעק מיד, ואמר: "חס ושלום, אסור לומר כן על בן ישראל! זה אף נוגד את ההלכה, שהרי ההלכה היא שגם אם אדם המיר את דתו, ומת בלי בנים – אחיו חייב ביבום או בחליצה לאלמנתו... וכל העניין של יבום נעשה כדי "להקים על שם אחיו המת ולא ימחה שמו בישראל". ואתה אומר "ימח שמו"? מי שמך להיות יועץ לה' יתברך, ולומר ש"ימח שמו", חס ושלום? במקום זה, התפלל עליו שישוב בתשובה. הרי אם חס ושלום היה נמחה שמם של אחז ומנשה ואמנון, איך היה נולד משיח?"...
לצערנו הרב, אנו נתקלים רבות באנשים שמתירים לעצמם להשתמש בלשון של: "ימח שמו" על אדם כזה או אחר, ומצוה להודיע ולפרסם ברבים שזהו איסור גמור! אסור לומר על בן ישראל, ואף על הגרוע שבגרועים, "ימח שמו", מכיון שגם על אחד שכזה שם ישראל נקרא. וכמו שציין הרב יוסף חיים זוננפלד, אפילו יהודי שחלילה המיר את דתו, לא ימחה שמו בישראל.
When I was in yeshiva, I used to hear someone say, "David Ben Gurion, Y'moch Shmoi". Up until then I only heard this about Hitler, so I was shocked. I was a kid, a naive zionist Israel loving kid, and this stunned me.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Rav Sonnenfeld zt"l, and I think nobody should ever call Rav Kook zt"l YM"S -- or any other Jew for that matter.
ReplyDeleteAnyone is says it on Rav Kook is an extremist and should not be taken seriously PERIOD. The question is on other Jews who really caused destruction to Am Yisroel and to Torah like a Marx or some of the early secular Zionists who really worked against the Torah.
ReplyDeleteThe story of Rav Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld was specifically about Eliezer Ben-Yehuda, the founder of Modern Hebrew. See Lashon HaKodesh: History, Holiness, & Hebrew pg. 145.
ReplyDeleteI still think it spreads a bad message -- and is just wrong overall -- to say it on a Jew. DIN, your opinion?
ReplyDeleteWhen I joined IDF with my friends of Bnei akiva France, we were around 20 kids spending half year in yeshiva in bet el and half year in kibbutz ein hanatsiv. When we arrive first time to the tel ashomer base in order to check if we were able to join IDF, we met satmars kids with their mame. We were two yiddish speakers amoung us and one satmar asked my haver, in welche yeshiva du lernst ? he answered to him yeshivat bet el ? Bet El the satmar said ? yes a sub of yeshivas mercaz harav. Mercaz harav yeshivas Harav Kook ( at this time in 1979 Rav tswi yeouda was B"H still in live ) said the satmar yes we answered. SO his curse was yimah shmo vezircho, zol er brennen.. so my friend start to curse in yiddish his mother and all of friends mostly sefardi jews asked why emmanuel ( he' was a very quiet guy) is yelling to the woman , i answered it is nothing i was so shocked, never used yiddish at this time to curse somebody and i was afraid there were able to break the guys legs and arms...)
ReplyDeleteIn Monsey I have personally heard Satmar savages curse out Rav Kook ZT"L.
ReplyDeleteAnyone making such statements should be considered a non-Jewish anti-Semite, and should be booted out of the Orthodox Jewish world.
I went to a Yeshivish yeshivah where they referred to Rav Kook's seforim as "cook books". Shame on them...
ReplyDeleteAlthough, I wonder if the editor of this blog ever referred to a satmar chusid/Rebbe as "Y'moch Shmoi"?
Rumor has it that the editor of this blog is really a closet Satmar, Anti-Zionist chasid. He is running this blog just to make enough money to retire and move to Israel to volunteer as a community activist for the Peleg Yerushalmi group.
ReplyDeleteK'K Admir R' Shmuel Aurbach Shlita reached out to him to take on this position and he is looking forward to doing do.
Of course he won't allow this comment to be posted, as he censors any negative comment about himself.
The onlly Jews you are allowed to sayYEMACH SHEMO on ,are Jewish Kapo"s who are out to destroy their own brothers and sisters,for example Charles Schumer Fatso Nadler and all those self hating Israel hating leftist Jewish professors in our colleges and universities .,and of course the two biggest Kapos of our generation,those two TeitelBum Satmar gangsters and haters of Israel
ReplyDeleteAish
ReplyDeleteI agree .....
To all above (aside from DIN), even to a Satmar you can't call YM"S. You have to be consistent anyway.
ReplyDeleteIdk your source for this anecdote but what i do know is that Jews are praying 3 times daily and begging ולמלשינים אל תהי תקווה וכל המינים כרגע יאבדו and if the חזן makes a mistake at this particular ברכה the halacha is מעבירין אותו, and how come we're saying it on the אותו האיש and shabtai tzvi YM"S, and btw when RYCS came back from the levaye of one of his children, someone of the closest ppl to kook asked him maybe your sufferings are a punishment for your fightings against the religious Zionists? RYCS responded Yes indeed it is a punishment for not exposing them enough and from now on I'll have no mercy my war against them will be full force, and finally many many REAL Gedoile Yisroel from that generation did say and wrote in letters YMS when mentioning his name
ReplyDeleteThere is a mesorah to say yemach shemoy on meshumodim. I have seen major Achronim address meshumodim this way in writing.
ReplyDeleteOne day a Poilisher / Galitzianer Rebbe came along - maybe the Chiddushei HaRim? - who stressed he is uncomfortable saying it even on them.
Now the Hungarians are a whole different story, especially the ones with genes from wild Asian horsemen who pillaged their neighbors for 1000s of years. You expect them to control themselves & display civilized behavior on secular Zionists? They even refer to the frierdik Munkatcher Rebbe as "Mach Shmoy".
Now for those of you who bash DIN as being mean spirited, zet men that he has a za groissen hartz that he even has hope for Interlander savages to act like mentchen because he is always looking for the gitzkeit in people!
The DNA people say the hungarian are just a jewish as all other jews...
Delete8:21
ReplyDeleteyou scribble:
"Jews are praying 3 times daily and begging ולמלשינים אל תהי תקווה וכל המינים כרגע יאבדו"
Those are NOT Jews... they are from זרע עמלק
You scribble again:
"REAL Gedoile Yisroel from that generation did say and wrote in letters YMS when mentioning his name"
Those are "Gedoilei Yisroel" ???
Those were Talmedei Chachumim .. agreed .....but they were also Mamzeirim who are never getting out of hell!
And get ready because you will be meeting them there very soon..
I scribble? Go learn a little you'll see on who the ולמלשינים was made for? I'm not expecting a SOB like you should know much but at least don't show your stupidity
DeleteDIN, please, please control yourself!
ReplyDeleteWhat a disgusting hypocrite you are!!!
ReplyDeleteYou write YMS on Yidden, Rebbes and Rabbonim whose derech you hate - but if someone does the same for your R' Kook you go nuts!!
Facts are facts 100+ years after Rav Kook, you would be struggling to find a couple of thousand people who truly follow his shitos.
Over that period his followes and their offspring have become either Chilonim or joined the Chareidi world.
As Chazal say Kushta Ko'i - the truth comes out
OTOH there are hundreds of thousands of erliche Yiden young and old who continue to go in the way of Rav Y CH Zonnenfeld zt'l
Anothe rpoint you may wish to ponder upon -There is hardly a non-Mizrachi/MO Yeshiva or Shul where you will find a single sefer authored by RK.
100 years later he has become far, far more "treif" than he ever was in his lifetime - when many Litvisher gedolim and a few Polish rebbes stayed neutral or even held of him (eg RSZ Auerbach zt'l and Rav Elyashiv ztl)
But have a look at the next generation - NOT A SINGLE son of these gedolim will have anything to do with RK or his seforim or ideas!
In fact when they reprint seforim from there fathers - they delete any mention of RK.
And I am not talking here about Satmar or Edah Chareidis (where he was always possul) but rather the Litvaks and non-Kanoi chassidim (eg Ger) who have absolutely no respect of connection with RK and his writings.
So continue lying to yourself and the half a dozen shotim who cheer on your hating and abusing of nearly all gedolei yisroel.
But you can't fol the vast majority of Yidden shomrei Torah uMitzvos -
This is documented in the prof marc shapiro book...
Delete"Facts are facts 100+ years after Rav Kook, you would be struggling to find a couple of thousand people who truly follow his shitos."
Delete"OTOH there are hundreds of thousands of erliche Yiden young and old who continue to go in the way of Rav Y.C. Zonnenfeld zt'l."
If the basis for our beliefs & views were to be based on success rate and popularity we'd all be Christians or Muslims instead of Jews. They've been much more successful than Judaism.
Obviously my point is not to compare R' Y.C. Zonnenfeld to Jesus or Mohammed. It's just an illustration. Unfortunately I feel that I have to make that clear otherwise you'll completely miss the point.
%Menzies%%5
ReplyDeleteso how come with your majority moshiach didn't come yet/ how come chareidim are fighting to keep their fat tuchises in the Zionist Knesset // how come more olim are coming and chareidi neighborhoods growing despite your gedolei yisroel bashing the state then and now/ how come Rabbi Kook's vision is coming true and you hypocrites eat and suck the fat of the Zionists land/
Rabbi Kook's Torah is difficult to understand, his new sefer was a difficult task in light of his esoteric writings and partial erosion of the manuscripts/ That's why he isn't much read, not because of your false reasons but because who have no patience anymore and probably won't read his deep Torah.
Your comments about not more than a thousand people is interesting. You did a poll? The Hillary poll.
%%%%% NOT A SINGLE son of these gedolim will have anything to do with RK or his seforim or ideas!%%%%%
Are you a Lakewood guy/
Absolutely false. Who taught you to lie/
ReplyDeleteSeforim blog
The Man who Tried to Put it All Together:
A Hesped for Rav Kook on His Eightieth Yahrzeit
By Yehudah Mirsky
The ultra-Orthodox, for their part, throughout his Jerusalem years, saw him as their gravest foe and attacked him relentlessly, even while on his deathbed, and after.
The ensuing decades saw growing interest in Rav Kook’s teachings and their significance. The thousands of pages of his diaries were edited and published, in different series, by his disciple “ha-Rav ha-Nazir,” David Cohen (see here) and by Rav Kook’s son, Zvi Yehudah.
The latter eventually assumed the deanship of his father’s yeshiva, renamed Mercaz Ha-Rav, and in the late 1960s and early ‘70s became spiritual leader of the new vanguard of Religious Zionists.
When in the aftermath of the Yom Kippur War of October 1973 religious Zionists decided to capture the flag and lay hold, not only of the hilltops of Judea and Samaria but of the Zionist movement as a whole, they were taking the religious language that Labor Zionism had made into a functional tool for a political program and re-infuse it with its classical religious meaning. And they did so, with the conceptual tools provided them by Zvi Yehudah, in his interpretation of his father.
The central question for Zvi Yehudah, his own successors, and for his and their critics within Religious Zionism, (most notably Rav Yehudah Amital) was what his father would have said, and how his ideas ought to be interpreted. It’s hard to think of another Jewish theologian whose legacy has been as consequential as AvrahamYitzhak ha-Kohen Kook.
Those arguments continue in present-day Israel, where new volumes by and about Rav Kook, academic, sectarian and popular,**** continue to be**** PUBLISHED AT A DIZZYING PACE****after year. The publication in recent years of his diaries in their original form has heightened interest in him, while showing the depth of his immersion in Kabbalah, and the depths he was plumbing in his own complicated soul. He simultaneously embraced both universalism and particularism with rare vehemence. He saw genuine revelation in the spiritual life of all peoples, and in the very body of Israel, whose unique collective vocation was the salvation of mankind. He affirmed both pragmatism and utopia, or in his terms, sagacity and prophecy. The common thread to this entire way of thinking is the dialectic, a principled appreciation of complexity, and the ways in which precisely that complexity, that coincidence of opposites, is that which gives birth, slowly, to whatever it is that we can know of truth.
DONT BELIEVE THE FILTHY SHMUTZ MONGERS WHO DARE TRAMPLE ON RABBI KOOK
See what rav kook thought of rav zonnenfeld fron avinoam rosenak in the torah journal shofar,... the pdf is online...he was able to see rav kooks secret dairy
ReplyDeleteRob menzies;
ReplyDeleteFYI there are more books by and about Rabbi Kook than any other rabbi past or present.
you : { Over that period his followes and their offspring have become either Chilonim }
Factcheck : Most turning chilonim and OTD come from chareidi homes
{In fact when they reprint seforim from there fathers - they delete any mention of RK.}
Gratuitous fart. prove it.
{OTOH there are hundreds of thousands of erliche Yiden young and old who continue to go in the way of Rav Y CH Zonnenfeld zt'l}
No disrespect to this rabbi intended but how many people even ever heard of him?
{There is hardly a non-Mizrachi/MO Yeshiva or Shul where you will find a single sefer authored by RK. }
The worThere's hardly anybody alive that believes the world is round
. {but rather the Litvaks and non-Kanoi chassidim (eg Ger) who have absolutely no respect of connection with RK and his writings.}
Even if true, who cares?
did you say Litvaks? LOL , ok got it.
Robert G Menzies
ReplyDeleteI have to laugh at you comment that not many people read Rav Kook's Seforim ..... I have to laugh...
I was in the Seforim Business for many years ....
Hey... How many people read the Shev Shmattesaya?????
How many people read and learn the Minchas Chinuch????? Ha Ha Ha ..
they buy them for Bar-Mitzvha gifts .... no one goes out to buy them touse for themselves....
Besides Rav Kook z"l began writing his thoughts down in notebooks. Some of these notes were comprised of only one line, while other spanned pages of flowing text as written in the post
Very hard to learn
Believe me Rav Kook's sefarim sell more than The Chiddushei Harim or the Divrei Chayim ...
Believe me I know I was in the business ...
10,13, wrote , FYI there are more books by and about Rabbi Kook than any other rabbi past or present.
ReplyDeleteGreat point, my daughter works for a Jewish book distributor and it's 100% true. Just look at Amazon to see a partial list.
Rav Zonnenfeld told Ben Gurion I am shpitz Zionist according to the definition in Tanach, unlike you
ReplyDeleteThe same type of goons who harassed Rav Kook are the same type who harassed Rav Shteinmann and cursed him.1:15 is one of them.
ReplyDeleteActually, DIN, I can't say which Seforim sell more or are more popular -- probably depends on the circles. Anyway, they are all Shayne.
ReplyDeleteThe Nikolsburger Rebbe from Monsey says these all the time ,that it's forbidden to say yemach shemo on another yid.
ReplyDeleteB"H
ReplyDeleteI love the Nikolsburger Rebbe shlit"a!! He's such a huge Tzaddik and Oheiv Yisroel. He and his family should all have every manner of Beracha V'Hatzlacha!
I have said yemach shemo about a moser or two. I don't feel entirely easy about it, but evil is evil. And they must be obliterated in every sense of the word.
ReplyDeleteI Saw this as a vision it said ימח שמו I feel cursed and it came straight out of the bible although I thaught it could be the devil trying to curse me, as I was laughed at. I knew that i had wickedly disdained the holy spirit and his conviction so i sorta feel like this one is on me but at the end of the day I cant change the past only repent and turn to god away from the ways of this world. I know its not all about me me and me but I really think3 I have been damned. It is sad to say but answers would be great. May Godbless all you fellow brothers and sisters.
ReplyDelete