DIN: It's people like Rav Landau that keeps me going, I was ready to give up DIN as I have started other projects that take most of my time, but these stories are a gift for bloggers that keeps on giving.
This project to have Charedie women in the IDF employed as civilians, in the intelligence units was invented by none other than Rav Landau's very own party "DEGEL!" They were hiding it because they were afraid that if this got out, then the "gedoilim" the extremists would come out and oppose it!
Bingo!
A rabbi who calls himself Meir Kessler, an extreme extremist from Modi'im Illit who is against introducing Math and English in Yeshivois, because as he said it best "these subjects are preparing the children for the workplace" ...chas ve'sholom! This Kessler now came out last week to oppose the "Degel" project. Rabbi Landau had no choice but to follow suit to now come out with a statement to oppose it, lest anyone think he went off the derech!
I have a solution for all this:
Tell the husbands to get off their collective tucheses and get a job for heaven's sake! If only they would carry out their obligations that they promised in their ketubas, their wives wouldn't have to work anywhere. Rabbi Kessler wants the women to be teachers for 6 shekel an hour!
Read the following and weep!
Rabbi Dov Landau has joined with Rabbi Meir Kessler, the rabbi of Modiin Illit, in warning against Charedi women being employed as civilian members of the IDF.
In a letter published in the Yated Neeman newspaper on Friday, Rabbi Landau compared working for the IDF with the prohibition issued by the Chazon Ish against drafting women into the army.
Rabbi Kessler notes that Rabbi Gershon Edelstein Ztsl was strongly opposed to women working within army auspices even as civilians, as this would contradict the values of modesty required by women.
The reason for this is that beyond the issue of employers and employees, the army and those working for it are subordinate to the commanders and this can represent a real problem for those working there.
Rabbi Landau added that “These matters are serious and harm the foundations of Judaism. They are included in the ruling of the Chazon Ish against women enlisting for national service and there is no room to claim that some cases are excluded from this..”
Currently there are a number of special programs to train seminary girls as programmers and analysts, after which they are integrated in the air forces Ofek program and the 8200 intelligence unit, and other hi-tech units. The workers are civilian workers for the IDF employed by the Defense Ministry.
During the course of their studies, the students participate in projects. At a recent graduation ceremony the Ofek commander said that he has 15 charedi women working on developing operational systems and added that “The success is not just at a professional level but in the meaning and significance of the associations it creates. Integrating charedi graduates is a national strategic goal.”
The project was initially sponsored by Degel Hatorah representatives and has been kept under wraps for fear of opposition to the initiative. IDF sources said that the seminars and the charedi society have had an active role in the project.
You can disagree with his psak, but I highly doubt Rav Landau did anything to “follow suit” with Rabbi Kessler. He is an independent thinker who cited his sources as the Chazon Ish and Rav Edelstein.
ReplyDelete7:13
ReplyDeleteQuoting the Chazaon Ish does not make an "independent thinker"
The Chazon Ish was nifter in 1953, yet Rav Landau chose to make the statement 70 years later, about a situation that HIS OWN PARTY, DEGEL, founded and established many years ago, hence my statement that followed "suit."
I disagree. It is not clear whether the Chazon Ish would have said the same today. Rav Landau said it would. That is how many Torah decisions work, we make independent decisions for today incorporating the wisdom of past generations. He basically said that he was doing as much. I understand that you disagree. I’m just clarifying my previous anonymous statement.
DeleteIf there is one thing that some in degel are scared from rabbi landau, it's his independent mind, it's your choice to bash him on your blog, but first do your homework
ReplyDeletewhat do you care if yidden who are following the GRA and the mesorah of the olama hayeshivos want to pass that on to the next generation? even if your not part of the litvishe camp, you have to respect their mesorah etc. l'maase in the litvish world learning is above everything else. that is the way it is and was since the GRA and Rav Chaim Volozhener...that is why a 24 year old yungerman learning in bmg will get more kovod then the biggest zakein billionaire gvir, because Torah is more precious then all gold and silver! 90% of beys yaakov girls want to marry a learning boy, take it or leave it.
ReplyDeletenow in terms of army service and sherut leumi for girls, this battle was already fought and won in the 1950's. maran hachazon ish paskened it was yaharoig v'al yavaor. the steipler's sister's prepared knives to kill themselves in case the army would come kidnap them! ( see bmechistzasam by reb shlomo lorincz for all the details available in english at your local bookshop).
Sorry to disappoint you, but ill sooner respect any chayal or chayelet over any BMG boy. The soldiers put their lives on the line Every day while more than half of the heilige bmg boys don't learn a word. We all know that there are plenty of leidigeiers in bmg.
Delete11:16
ReplyDeleteRav Landau is the Defacto leader of the Degel party. His statement does not in any way say that he disapproves Degel's policies. If he actually does disapprove , then he should resign, because this particular policy was approved by both Rav Shteinman and subsequently Rav Gerson Edelstein.
His statement ignores the fact that Degel was the one who initiated this policy. When he accepted his position he should have stated that he will not accept his position with these "controversial" policies previously approved by Gedoilie Yisrael.
The word "Degel" does not appear anywhere in his statement.
If in fact the Degel guys are "scared of Rabbi Landau, with his "independent" mind, so much so that he denigrates previous Degel policies approved by prior gedoilim, then they have a ticking time bomb on their hands.
stop hating 11:41
ReplyDeleteA bunch of word salad that has been chewed over on this blog countless times.
Again, Rav Landau was appointed as the leader of Degel party, no one disputes this.
Degel instituted a prudent policy that had chareidie women work as civilians in the IDF intelligence, protecting their fellow brothers and sisters in the only Jewish State in the entire world, a country that is the home of over 7 million Jews.
This policy was approved by both Harav Shteinman and subsequently by Rav Edelstein. Both of these gedoilim were "following the GRA and the mesorah of the olama hayeshivos"
Rav Landau if he disapproved this Degel Policy should not have taken this position if he felt that it went against his values. To take a position and then go against a previously approved policy is being very disingenuous.
The Yeshivish way that has the wives working while being a mother of countless children is not sustainable nor is it helpful for Shalom Bayis.
Your ridiculous statement that:
"the steipler's sisters prepared knives to kill themselves in case the army would come kidnap them!" is crazy!
Believe me that they didn't have to prepare knives they had plenty in the kitchen drawers!
Are you suggesting that the Steiplers sister had a kitchen knife in a holster around their waists?" Exactly how did they prepare these knives?
While they were holding their babies they had a knife in their skirts?
Stop repeating stupid "shtusim and havalim"
“the steipler's sisters prepared knives to kill themselves in case the army would come kidnap them!" “
ReplyDeleteI refuse to believe that nonsense, no doubt written by a standard kool aid drinker. That is straight out the play book of Lev Tahor, it doesn’t get more culty then that, and the Stiepler wasn’t a cult leader and neither was his family, they were considerably more nuanced.
I agree with Mr DIN, thanks for speaking the truth nobody in the chareidi world wants to speak!
Too Unpc for you
Delete"mi garam shragleinu yamdu bmilchama? sharei yerushalayim, shhayu oiskim batorah". B.T. Makkot 10
ReplyDeleteThe steipler ztzkl was a kanoi and was much more yeshivish then his brother-in law maran hachazon ish ztzkl, and his son the grach ztzkl. it is a little known fact, but he was a main player, if not the main player, along with neturei karta, behind the "kidnapping" of yossele schumaker. this is spelled out in the new biography of ruth blau by the professor motti inbari.
ReplyDeleteWhich is how come he was ruthlessly interrogated by the shabak.Acc to him on par with the Communist NKVD
DeleteStop Hating, the Steipler had no sisters
ReplyDelete