The headline is not only to get your attention, it is also 100% true, and because it's true, it' makes "Holy People" very dangerous.....
So dangerous are the "holy" ones that Hashem in this case never forgave them.
I'm jumping ahead of myself.....
There is a halacha that every bar-mitzvah learns as soon as he turns 13, which is that now that he reached the age of being a bar-mitzva, he can be counted in a minyan.
How do we know that a "minyan" requires a minimum of 10?
I hope you guys are sitting .....
We learn this halacha from the "meraglim".....
let that sink in for awhile...
Lest you think I made it up, I will give you the sources and you could look it up at your leisure ...
(מגילה כ"ג ב (הובא בפרש"י עה"פ), ברכות כ"א ב, סנהדרין ע"ד ב)
Why would the Chazal learn out a major rule from the meraglim?
It was because they were the "moetzes gedoilei hador" of that generation, as the Torah itself writes in the 3rd verse of this parsha!
"ראשי בני ישראל המה"
"They were the leaders of the Jewish people"
According to many Rishonim and the Zohar they spoke "Lashon Hara" on Eretz Yisrael but meant it "lishmah"
In other words, they remained very "holy people" and weren't evil at all; it was their desire to be close to Hashem and stay in the midbar to cleave to Hashem, to learn his Torah unencumbered with "gashmios"
What was the result?
There is a proverb: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
just because someone has "good intentions" that doesn't necessarily mean it is the correct thing to do...
When the Jews made a golden calf, an "eigal" in the midbar, it was an outright rebellion and an affront to Hashem that had just recently taken them out of Egypt with miracles....they turned their backs on their Saviour and Creator and instead chose a calf, that couldn't speak, see, hear, or talk and was just born so to speak.
Yet Hashem forgave them
Yet with these "tzaddikim" the ones who had good intentions, where Chazal learn that a minyan consists of 10, Hashem never forgave them and we are still paying a price for this mistake.
Why?
Because they spoke "loshon hara" about Eretz Yisrael and when you bad mouth Eretz Yisrael even if you have the best of intentions, you are never forgiven ....
You can quote from the greatest of our people, who may have had the best intentions, but if they bad mouthed the Land or bad mouthed even those who built it, then they are meraglim, especially if they live in Chutz Le'aretz..... Hashem will never forgive them
To bolster my point... at the end of Moshe Rabbeinu's life, Moshe, in Sefer Devarim rebukes the Jewish people and reminds them of all the sins they did in the midbar... but in order not to embarrass them, he did not mention the sins explicitly, instead, he only hinted or alluded to them by using veiled references ... so when it came to remind them of the eigal, he said "ודי זהב" ....you actually need a Rashi to understand the hint....
but when it came to remind them about the "meraglim" Moshe was very explicit... no veiled references here...., here he wasn't concerned that they would be embarrassed, Moshe goes into the details to what happened, things that we didn't even know learning Parshas Shlach ....
The gemarrah discusses a tuma bird called "r'ah" ראה, that has great eye sight, it could stand in Bavel and see a dead carcass all the way in Eretz Yisrael
עומד בבבל ורואה נבלה בארץ ישראל
the Baal Shem asked, if this bird has been gifted with such talent to able to see such great distances then why is it tamei?
Says the Baal Shem, someone living in chutz l'aaretz and focuses on whats bad in Israel can only be someone who is tamei...
I will add my own pshat .....
why did Chazal choose "Bavel" to illustrate their point?
Precisely because "Bavel" was the "makom Torah" of those generations and they became very comfortable there and looked down on Eretz Yisrael ... since those living in Eretz Yisrael were Mechallei Shabbos and were by in large intermarried.........
nevertheless the Babylonians searching for "dead carcasses" in Israel were considered tamei!
You can be from those who authored Talmud Bavli, the oral torah so that it should never be forgotten, but if you dare badmouth the land of Israel or its inhabitants, you risk losing your olam haba!
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Powerful.
ReplyDeleteWhere is the Beshe"t?
Is it permitted to make (even) a (subtle) difference
ReplyDeletebetween Eretz (land) Ysrael and Medinas Ysrael ?
Just curious to know...
11:27 Zako
ReplyDeleteGood question actually .... and I will blog about it sometime soon אי"ה
For now, one has to be careful about speaking even against the "medina' ...
of course I don't mean criticising the people in the government and their policies ...
I mean, and I think you mean the "medina" as an entity ....and that's not so simple ....
and I will address it .....
just last week I was by a well known respected posik in Yerushalyim who in principle is against a "medina' I was there for a meeting about something totally unrelated ...and when someone who was at that meeting made a disparaging remark about one of the founders of the state, the poisik put his hands to his ears ..and asked someone near, to tell him when the "loshon hara" was over..
We were all in shock ... and he explained that arguing halachically about the"medina" is one thing, disparaging a "founder" or as he said a "meyaseid" maybe a very tricky thing .. and he wants no part of that!
So it may be walking on a tightrope... and believe me, its not worth it ..
To: DIN 11:27
ReplyDeleteThanks.
Dont we learn from the eida limud that even reshaim should be part of a minyan? That's what we learn; I dont know what your point is otherwise. You are trying to be shocking with the torah, it isn't working.
ReplyDelete7:10
ReplyDeleteI see all your learning in Yerushalyim still didn't make you even a "shtikel" talmud Chacham...
"we learn from the eida limud that even reshaim should be part of a minyan"
that is correct ..... reshaim can be PART of the minyan,but they cannot BE the minyan....
Here לכאורה the עדה were all reshaim ... because the makup of the 10 meraglim did not include Yehosha and Calev..
thats my point ..if they were all rashaim how can we learn out this halacha from the meraglim?
Since 10 reshaim cannot make a minyan ...
the only way to answer this is, that the gemarrah didn't consider them rashaim at this point ... which makes my point that they were "holy tazaddikim" and were one very dangerous bunch that Hashem would never forgive ..
Your comment that I was " trying to be shocking with the torah" shows that you don't understand the basics of learning ...
Your comment
"You moved to Israel because your kids live there said..."
So? Is that now a crime?
But it's not even true since I already bought in 1978 way before my kids that live in Israel were born..
I couldn't move for various different reasons but my heart was always there ..
But it is neither here nor there ... when the goyim come rounding you up in your comfortable home in Monsey.. you would have wished that you moved "because you had kids in Israel..."
So even though you made it your mission in life to hate another Jew with a passion, I welcome you back to the Holy Land .... why?
Because with all that hate you still cannot stop reading my blog ... you are what we call a masochist ..
7:10
ReplyDelete" shocking with the torah"? What does that even mean? You are one mixed up human, so giving chiddushim that you never heard is called "shocking with the Torah?" This is not a novel pshat actually, since the Zohar writes that the "meraglim" were on a very high level. The fact that Hashem never forgave them and punished all of the Jewish people to wander 40 years shows exactly what DIN brought out, that talking negatively against Eretz Yisrael does not bring good tidings. The point that DIN brings to the front that Moshe Raabeinu doesn't mention directly any of Klall Yisrael's aveiras, directly, and mentions the Chet of the Meragim "in detail" is "shocking?" It may very well be but its written in the Torah itself, all DIN did was bring our attention to it. that's now "Shocking"? Where did you learn?
7:01
ReplyDeleteDIN's "shocking" dvar Torah actually answers many questions and answers a רשב"א
because be'pashtis the meraglim were "moirdim" as Yehoshua & Calev said
"אך בה' אל- תמרדו"
So if there were in fact "moirdim" than they certainly couldn't be part of a minyan, so how do we learn עדה from meraglim ... it is even more difficult since the mishna in masectes sanhedrin פ"א, discusses the make up of the sanhedrin the ten that the mishna learns is like DIN said from the meraglim but they are also according to the mishna part of the sanhedrin, however a "moirid" cannot be part of the Sanhedrin and they certainly cannot be the total makeup of a minyan that will say "devarim she'bekdusha"
But with DIN"S answer it all makes sense, since the Mishna must consider them "tazaddikim" otherwise all the kashes of the Rashba stand ...
Maybe "schocking" but beautiful indeed!