אנו משכימים לדברי תורה
והם משכימים לדברים בטלים
Finally, the Jewish people found a way to have "achdus" and be once again ... ONE!
The Daf Yoimie!!
The Daf Hayoimie, manages to bring together the entire Jewish people ....no politics ..... no nothing .... just Torah ....
Just by learning the same page of ancient text we are coming together as one ...
Rav Meir Shapiro z"l, at the first Knessiah Gedolah of Agudas Yisrael nearly a century ago, explained the idea of the Daf Yomi the concept that all of the Jewish World would be learning the same page,
"This would connect world Jewry with the strongest glue...the holy Torah!
You would think????
There is one solidarity group, however, that will officially not be part of this "achdus" .... and that is .... you must have guessed it ...
SATMAR!
They were not represented in any of the Siyum HaShas celebrations!
Now to be honest ... when Rav Meir Shapiro ..first introduced the idea he did have some opposition .....
because there were some that felt ...that learning a daf a day would cause people to never learn the daf... be'iyun ...in depth .....
The opposition totally evaporated and in fact all Gedolei Yisrael embraced this idea and it was and is implemented throughout the entire Torah world...
Every Bais Medrish ... be it in Lakewood, Monsey, Williamsburg, Israel, Europe etc ... has a chevrah learning the daf ..;
there are now groups that have serious Talmedei Chachamim learning the Daf Yoimie in depth.
So you naively ask.... who would possibly be against learning Torah?
Especially learning Torah in an organized system that unites us instead of dividing us??
SATMAR!!!!
Why?????
Ha ha LOL
Because ...hold on to your seats .....
it was started at the Agudah Convention!!!
And Satmar's mesorah is not to join in the Agudah in any Torah way ....
I say "Torah way" because Satmar does join the Aguda when it comes to grabbing money from the Government ..
They are at all the meetings taking place at the Aguda offices where it is explained how to get and apply for federal and state grants!
Now... I know that some of my readers are going to tell me that there are large groups of their Satmar cult that does learn the daf albeit not with the system ... they are two pages behind or two pages ahead...
That my friends is the entire point ....
they officially will not be part of the "achdus" which means being on the same page the same day ......
They do not want to be part of the Daf Yoimie Chevreh ....
They keep parroting the bizarre mantra that this is not "our mesorah"...
Helllllllllllow ....
you didn't have a mesorah to wear a shreimel either!
Also a letter of the previous Lubavitcher Rebbe congratulating the Lomdei Hadaf!
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UPDATED!
For those readers who emailed me that Chabad is against the daf ...I decided to display a letter of the 6th Lubavitcher Rebbe congratulating the Lomdei HadafAlso a letter of the previous Lubavitcher Rebbe congratulating the Lomdei Hadaf!
**Kindly Support Our Blog by Browsing the Ads.
You are mistaken.
ReplyDeleteThere are major segments of Klal Yisroel who are against the entire concept of Daf Yomi. Others who are more pareve have a problem with the Agudah Fressers running it. The Agudah incidentally later took credit for it after initially giving a cool reception to Rav Meir Shapiro.
The Posek Hador R' Chaim Oizer & the lamdan hador R' Chaim Brisker were both against the Daf even for baal habatim.
Therefore it's a no brainer that Brisk, Mir Flatbush & Beis Hatalmud are against it, period.
Some other Litvisher streams oppose only yeshivaleit learning the Daf.
R' Elya Brudny is a siyum cheerleader despite that he learned in Brisk & is a Mirrer magid shiur but he has oddly become a huge Agudah establishment guy which goes against his entire chinuch. And that sadly extends to the Agudah cover ups for molesters & the Philly Kaminetzky scandals.
The Agudah should also be ashamed of themselves for all the sick white glove service multi-course gourmet Fressing they provide in the VIP boxes from a caterer kicked out by hashgochos for kashrus violations. Loi zu haderech. Our zaydas in the Heim embodied Adam Ki Yamus beOihel.
12:26
ReplyDeleteThere is no one......absolutely no-one except for Satmar that opposes the daf today ....
absolutely no one ....
DIN is absolutely correct ...
Even if you were to say that Brisk is opposed ...
Briskers were absolutely represented in the Yerusalyim Siyum ....
K'emat all litvishe gedoilim today ... in the here in now... support the daf ...
My son learns in the Mir ... and all Mir Roshei Yeshivah support the daf and were at the siyum
of course the Kollim and Yeshivah Bochrim don't learn the dad .... but they are not opposed to it ..
its not for those in Kollim and Bochrim
but to be opposed to it????
That is insane
All of klall Yisrael are part and parcel of all Siyum celebrations...
12:26
ReplyDeleteYou must be living in a huge fart ......
I live in Lakewood and every shul has a daf .....
I also have an apartment in Israel ..every single shul has the daf on the schedule ....
No one is opposed as a policy against the daf yomi ....
maybe some individuals wont learn it because they want to learn it be'eeeyan ...
But to oppose Torah???? To witness over a hundred thousand Meseeyamim proves that who ever opposes it is either jealous or crazy
who is opposed to the daf???
ReplyDeleteGive us names...
saying "Briskers"...
R' Chaim Ozer? R' Chaim Brisker?
They are no longer alive and if they were alive they would not oppose it today ...
Bais Hatalmud .... who in Bais Hatalmud ...
names please?
Bais Hatalmud.... oich mir a yeshivah .... they still exist? how many learn there?
How many?
Names ... buddy... give us names?
Bais hatamud .... a couple of old bachelors are opposed....
The Agudah sent a chaufeurred limo to the Mir for the 1990 siyum. R' Shmuel Berenbaum zl REFUSED to get in. R' Shraga Moishe Kalmanowitz was never really a Mirrer despite his name. He learned in Kaminetz who I have noticed many Kaminetzer talmidim are less traditionalist. He did get in the limo. The kids of R' Shmuel were vocally against it at the time. I witnessed it.
ReplyDeleteThe Beis Hatalmud roshei yeshiva of that time, a trio of alter Mirrers REFUSED to go and most of the yeshiva followed suit. R' Yisroel Perkowski, Rav Zeilberger & Rav Gottlieb. 1:15 pm poking fun at alter bochurim probably means geonei oylam in Torah like R' Chaim Visoker & R' Leib Chediver. Ain hochi nami they were takka opposed too.
The talmidim of that era who were big Briskers, big Mirrers & big Beis Hatalmudniks were making choyzek of how the Agudah made it in Madison Square Gardens with the elephants from Ringling Bros Circus still present in the complex that you could even smell their waste in large parts. There were & are many 100s of talmidim in these yeshivos.
Someone is claiming that R' Avrohom Yehoshua Soloveitchik would go to an Agudah siyum? Are you out of your mind? He was the mechaber of the shita that the Agudah is primarily about FRESSING, many years before UOJ jumped on that bandwagon.
The "sholosh chamuros" (three cardinal sins) in SatMar: (all are actually great mitzvos in the real world)...
ReplyDelete1. Learn Daf yomi
2. Daven by the Kosel
3. Be careful to only eat Yoshon.
Reb Yoilish fought very forcefully against anyone that would commit one of these terrible deeds.
In Lakewood yes because R' Aron Kotler joined the Agudah. Bais Brisk was against the Agudah from day one as R' Chaim said then because of the corruption vos vet kummen in this dor. And here you have it, yishman Yeshurun from the fressing that they protect every child molester and never listen to the gedolei Eretz Yisroel.
ReplyDeleteTry to find a single alter Mirrer by the way who held of Daf Yomi or ever accepted an invitation to join the Moetzes. Even R' Zelig who was from the more Liberal Mirrers would not join Agudah.
Ainer fregt: "But to oppose Torah????"
You are missing the point. It is gufah for Torah because all these gedolim hold the daf is too easy of a way out. If anyone ever saw the chavrusashaft of R' Shmuel Berenbaum mit R' Nochum Partzovitz you would understand gantz gut where they are coming from, a special seder in Shita Mekubetzes where they horeved ad kdai kach that shvitz came from their foreheads.
"There is one solidarity group, however, that will officially not be part of this "achdus" .... and that is .... you must have guessed it ...
ReplyDeleteSATMAR!"
DIN, your bias is shining through very strongly here.
Only Satmar was missing?? Where were your buddies, the messianic cult headquartered in Crown Heights???
Chabad-Lubavitch is not part of Daf Yomi as well, but you give them a free pass??
I recall seeing a booklet year ago from some Satmar group or similar, explaining why they are against Daf Yomi. One of the reasons given, was that years ago, there used to be different chevras learning in Shuls, botei medrash. Chevra Mishnayos, Chevra Ein Yaakov, Chevra Tehillim, others learned halacha...now everything is daf yomi (of course, not everything, but you get the idea). That critique has some validity.
ReplyDeleteEven the Lubavitch reason why they didn't it has some validity.
There is more than one way to learn Torah.
"To witness over a hundred thousand Meseeyamim"
ReplyDeleteYou were fooled. Not everyone at Met Life was mesayem. Only twenty some odd thousand.
That means that like 3/4, 75% of the place was not mesayem!
these filthy Jew hating Romananian-hungarian Gipsy bastards,in their rag called "DER YID',did not find it necessary to mention even as a one line sentence the fact that 100,000 jews came together in one place to celebrate the siyum hashas,even the jew hating Times and the communist Forverts mentioned it,but not those criminally insane Romanian jew haters
ReplyDeleteAnonymous Shangchai Mirrer
ReplyDeleteYou are providing us with names of dead people...
the people today meaning the Litvishe Roshei Yeshivos that are alive and kicking are all endorsing the Daf
R" Chaim Kanivski even sent a letter that was read at the Yerushalyim Siyum Hashaas!
We live in a totally different world.. and this is what we need now...
anyone opposed is living in the past .......
The future is for every Baal Habayis to finish Shas at least once a lifetime...
The Old guys that you mention even the Roshei Yeshivah that you mention all left at least 15 mesactas .."orphans" most of them never learned most of shaas and remained until their deaths ''Lomdeshe amai-Ratzim"
To Huh
ReplyDeleteChabad is actually FOR THE DAF ....
I decided to add photos of a letters in favor of the Daf
To the ignorant Yaponchiker alter bochur,
ReplyDeleteYou have no idea what you are saying. R' Shmuel Berenbaum as just one example, learned every masechta in Shas & knew them better than the superficial Daf crowd. Maybe he didn't know the others inside out like he did Seder Noshim & Nezikin, but KNOW them he did!
I see, so if someone was niftar yesterday, that's it! They are posseled from standing for anything, from counting! Nice try to create an artificial, almost impossible to defeat criteria in order to protect your weak arguments. But there are some ben meah Mirrers still alive (ad meah v'esrim) like the gaon baTorah Rav Resnick who lives in South Fallsburg and learns in yeshiva every day.
But get real because the Alter Mirrers have great numbers of talmidim & children who continue their legacy.
And how did the holtz hockers & schnapps moichrim in Lita become Shas Yidden before Rav Shapiro had his Daf einfall in Poilisher Lublin? (When you extract your feese from your mouth, do it very slowly or it could be dangerous)
One cute anecdote on Chabad & Daf Yomi. There is an old school Lubavitcher rabbi who kochs out loud that Lawrence is full of superficial novolim who run into Gourmet Glatt looking for the most scrumptious steaks to fress - they are all wound up in that avoidas fressing - before running off to their Daf shiur.
The Meshichist are against it. Some have actually been known to grab the Gemara away from someone areingetung in lernen, huff "learn some 'real' Torah", and slide a Tanya in front of them. I know of one case where the victim yelled at the Meshichist nut that he's an apikoiress, and grabbed his Gemara back!
ReplyDeleteWhen have you ever seen a Meshichist Daf shiur? Alla shtussim they are oisek in, yes, like that video where a bunch of lunatics in Crown Heights shrey "WASSUP" to each other in various stages of uncontrolled mental illness, but not the Daf.
"For those readers who emailed me that Chabad is against the daf ...I decided to display a letter of the 6th Lubavitcher Rebbe congratulating the Lomdei Hadaf
ReplyDeleteAlso a letter of the previous Lubavitcher Rebbe congratulating the Lomdei Hadaf!"
DIN, I don't know if you found those letters from the late Lubavitcher Rebbes yourself, or if some Lubavitcher propagandist sent them to you, but either you, you have been had, you have been fooled, big time. Nowhere in them is "Daf Yomi" mentioned. They are talking about Chalukas Hashas and to finish Shas once a year, which are separate and different customs. Daf Yomi finishes once in 7 1/2 years or so.
DIN, don't be fooled by the Chabad-Lubavitch propaganda machine!
With the Lubavitch Chalukas Hashas, the Shas is divided among Hasidim to be finished by the next י"ט כסליו. One guy takes one mesechta, someone else takes another one, so Shas is finished by all of them together, collectively.
ReplyDeleteBut in Daf Yomi, each person goes through the whole Shas.
Big, giant difference!
For more info, see
https://anash.org/chalukas-hashas-in-770-then-and-now/
https://collive.com/sign-up-for-the-chalukas-hashas-2/
There is someone who finishes Shas once a year but is as krum as can be. He refuses to learn any Chazal besides Bavli. He certainly doesn't know halacha but arrogantly compares himself to R' Moshe to posken directly from Shas! Fool! R' Moshe did not dare do so until he knew halacha inside out first! He is a rarity BT from the 1950s who in some ways never finished becoming a BT.
ReplyDeleteok guys ...here goes ...
ReplyDeleteFirst of all to bring "raayois" from Rabbanim even the mosh chashuv who are no longer amongst the living in this particular case is not correct ...since we are living in different times.... and the times have changed radically in the last 10 years alone ...
These Roshei Yeshivah that were against the Daf had their own agendas... Ve'Hameivin Yavon!
I don't understand anyone who can possibly be against the daf?
Most of those learning the daf would probably never open a sefer if it wasn't for the daf....
and what about connecting to other Jews???
Does that not count for anything????
Ok most Roshei Yeshiva do not understand this concept as they are in Dalet Amot Shel Halacha...both those who understand the times and the community ...for them to oppose learning ?
Who cares how they learn ...? My Father z"l would say "abeee men lerent" ..He was Satmar!
I personally know balei-batim that are Baki Be'shas and Poiskim and I would match them with any Roshei Yeshivah ...
there I said it!!
And even those who just sit there and listen.....they are absorbing by osmosis...and maybe on the next cycle it will be a lot easier ....
For Example...
Myself ...the "humble DIN"
The first time I learned the daf I basically sat there ...but was totally amazed by mesactes that I never would have learned if I continued learning "Yeshivishe mesachtois"..... I picked up deep sugyos just by sitting there
I was able to open Shaalois and Teshuvois and relate to them ....
The next cycle ..I was already familiar with all of the different Sugyois ...so I could now go a bit deeper into them...I was even able to fill in as a substitute to the Maggid Shiur....
In the cylcle after that I was basically fluent and had more than an elementary understanding of the entire Shas
I cannot say that I know Shas and I cannot even say that I am a Talmid Chachim ....
but I can say is that by learning the Daf, I feel connected not only to my ancestors but I feel connected to all those on the same page ....I can understand and have a knowledge of all the concepts in Shas .... is that a small matter?
I am sure that the Roshei Yeshivah or those chassidshe cults that in shitah against the daf are will have to give din ve'chesbon for opposing it ... ....
Last week I saw a Brisker Talmid davening in our Shul.... he is a Chassan and is about 24 years old and is a "learner" no question.......I asked him if he could give a simple "dvar Torah" between Mincha and Maariv.... he blushed and ooooed and aaaed ... at the end he asked me to ask someone else...
I did..... I asked a pashuter Baal Ha'Boooooooos and not only did he give the Dvar Torah but gave his own deep insight into a 2 word Rashi... and then connected it to the daf of the day which was in Mesactas Niddah...
I noticed that after davening ...the Chassan impressed asked him where he learned...he said that he never ever learned in a Yeshivah but learned the Daf and finished Shas 8 times ...
There is something to be said about that .....
No one learning in any way possible way should be criticized and told that is not the way ...
Ahhhhh beee men lerent!!!
With all due respect, many of those Daf-opposed roshei yeshiva are kedoshei Elyon who lived & breathed Torah 24/7. Yes they have an "agenda" which is anyone who is capable of accomplishing what DIN himself has already accomplished with the Daf Yomi could have reached even greater heights abee meh probeert. The Daf Yomi ends up being a crutch & easy cop out for many. They are entitled to their opinion & meant no harm. They only meant the best for you and hold you in higher esteem than you hold of yourself. They agree with the Steipler that you long ago obtained the status of talmid chochom by being able to make a leinen in Gemara mit Tosafos. But they want you to tap all of your potential. Please don't insult them. R' Chaim Ozer Grodzenski & R' Chaim Soloveitchik were the gedolei hador. They knew all of R' Meir Shapiro's intentions but respectfully did not agree with him.
ReplyDeleteNot clear what the Brisker chosson has to do with any of this. Maybe he's too much of an anav. Maybe he has social / public speaking issues. Maybe he wasn't having a good day.
I don't know your friend who never learned in yeshiva. He does need to make a rebbi for himself however or else what he gleaned from 8 Daf cycles could be dangerous. Depending how such people apply themselves they could be lamdonim or they could be just superficial nebichels with a lot of stray factoids in their heads.
One cute story that is not a perfect example but telling of some people nonetheless. In one shiur there was a baal habos who every day had 10 bumber kashyos that the maggid shiur had a hard time answering. Every day 10, no more, no less. One night another guy in the shiur stumbles across a page on the internet. Some talmid chochom has a site where he posts the 10 kashyos that the show off was taking from without crediting. What do you think? Is the guy a loser? The oylam in his shiur thinks so & told him, ok buddy we found the website, so shut the heck up!
I looked again at the two Lubavitcher letters DIN posted.
ReplyDeleteAs commented earlier, the first one, from rebbe Rayzatz is about the Lubavitch custom of annual chalukas Hashas - quite different from Agudah Daf Yomi.
The second letter, from the late last Rebbe, may have been to a Daf Yomi siyum. However, to say based on it that Lubavitch endorses/supports Daf Yomi is incorrect. It seems to just be good wishes to an outside group.
8:36
ReplyDeleteIt seems that you guys don't get it ....
DIN posted and asked how someone can oppose it?
How can someone oppose vehemently a way of learning that connects Jews all over the world?
The Rebbe may have not endorsed it because it wasn't a Lubavitcher innovation....but he did bless it ...
In fact I just sent another letter to DIN where the Rebbe actually blesses the "daf hayoimie" not stam finishing shas but explicitly states "Daf Yoimie" I hope he posts it
The Litvishe Roshei Yeshivos were opposed to the daf to their OWN Yeshivois because it was not "matim" with their way of learning ...they were not opposed to the idea of Klal Yisroel adopting the daf....
if they were ..... then they were absolutely wrong ...
DIN posted a video of the Klauseberger Rebbe speaking at a Siyim Hashass of the Day Hayoimie...
and you can clearly hear him say that the Daf Yoimi Learning is "emes le'amitoi shel Torah" and his reasoning was that so many people"joined" it and it survived the Holocaust ....that he said was "proof positive" that this innovation is "emes"and he mentioned the "opposers" and said that they were "wrong" that "History proves them wrong"
The Klausenberger Rebbe was a Gaon Oilim and I would match him up with any litvisher Roshei Yeshivah ...in learning and in Bekeeeois.. and in Tzidkois.... (i'm not a Kloizenberger)
He endorsed the Daf Yoimi he added that people should learn it with Toisfois ....
He even offered then $25,000.00 to any Kollel guy that finishes Shas and gets tested on it ....he mentions that on the video...
The Litvishe Roshei Yeshivas were not fluent in shas ...absolutely not ...
I learned in Litvishe Yeshivois all my life and have the greatest respect for them ...and they were baki basically in Yeshivishe Mesactois ...
I clearly remember a genious in my class who had a photographic memory ..he was actually autistic, and he had finished shas at 18 ... he would constantly contradict the Roshei Yeshiva at his "Shiur Klaali" with proof from mesactas that the Roshei Yeshiva was totally not familiar with ....and was baffled when challenged ...
This Roshei Yeshivah is no longer alive and was one of the leading Gedoilim in the 70's ....he was a mechaber of sforim ....
And the old Bais Hatalmud Bochrim that one of the commentaters above say were "baki Be'shas" is a bald faced lie .....
My very own uncle was one of them...and he was a huge Talmud Chachim that never ever left the Yeshivah but he was clearly an "am ha'aaretz" in the not Yeshivishe mesactois...
and I remeber his other bachlor buddies that lived in Bensenhurst they were all Baki in Yeshivishe Mesactois only ....
I have the Shas that my Uncle learned in ...Only the Yeshivishe Mesactois are totally worn out ...the other ones look brand new!
Satmar and the Reform movement joined in condemning the daf ....that speaks for itself ....
One straw man argument after another from someone dead set on "proving" many gedolim "wrong" for being against Daf Yomi.
ReplyDeleteNo one falsely said your fetter was boki bShas. Commentators did stress that R' Shmuel Berenbaum & unspecified others knew a lot more than Noshim & Nezikim. They came to R' Shmuel from all over to ask him kashyos in any sugya. R' Shmuel has a talmid who stays up much of the night to learn not yeshivish sugyos. He doesn't sit down so as not to fall asleep. One night I go to a small beis medrash in the Catskills after 1 am. He was on his feet learning maseches Mikvaos b'iyun. It was also mentioned that in Lita even many baal habatim knew Shas. Your uncle was previously a baal habos in Lita? Somehow I don't think so.
The Kloizenberger was takka an adam gadol meod. His Mifal Hashas was a whole different breed that I have personally heard some opponents of stam Daf Yomi express admiration for.
Yes there are roshei yeshiva who don't know much. In Long Beach, besides all the other sick things there, he can't even answer kashyos on the few blatt they learn. He tells the bochurim when you go to Eretz Yisroel ask the kashya there.
But there are roshei yeshiva who are the diametric opposite of this. In Brisk they hold in esteem & lernt men sifrei Chiddushei HaRim & Sfas Emess because they tzaichen tzu fun kol Hatorah kula. Take a look in the seforim of R' Aron Leib Shteinman & R' Yechiel Michel Feinstein where they bring from all over off the cuff because they knew it all.
Even in the Left wing of the yeshiva spectrum, Rav Ruderman was famous for knowing down to every Rishon & Acharon in print. One of his talmidim who was briefly a rosh yeshiva but escaped the politics there to do something else in klei koidesh, one upped his rebbi to know afilu many out of print seforim. He would quote verbatim all the time from little known meforshim on Yerushalmi, Medroshim & Zohar.
Today in Brooklyn & Lakewood there are roshei kollel on this level and they are young. And no belittling of BMG because R' Yeruchim is certainly on this madraiga. Maybe R' Yisroel too. R' Shlomo Miller zicher. And his son R' Avrohom passed the pin test on gantz Shas - with Tosfos! - when he was 18.
One of the reasons why you can continue to churn out bad examples like Long Beach is because such yeshivos ignore the gedolim on how & what to learn. They don't know Shas in Telz because they are busy the whole time making Toyros from a few blatt. For many years Philly has been all hype as they produce huge batches of very mediocre learners. Some people get very angry to hear talk like this but I didn't make it up. The real lamdonim say it. Rav Schach warned for years it would come to that because they have to know a lot of bekius first which is the ikker. He put it bichsav. It was published in Michtovim Umaamarim. He continued to protest. But they 'think' they are 'smarter' and don't have much to show for it.
Excuse me! What do you mean Long Beach is so shvach? After a molestation scandal they are very lomdish in how to cover up a murder, tamper with the murder scene, stymie the police, LIE to the gedolim, forge letters from the gedolim who didn't believe them, and play dumb to the general public.
ReplyDeleteYou really think Shtockfeigel is as dumb as he looks?
Cooper even figured out a lomdishe pattern of pesios gassos how to run away from reporters like Mary Murphy from WPIX who try to ask him about the many holes in the story.
And last but not least is that animal Shlomo Lesin who has really got things figured out. When you want to mess up lives why stop with poor Chaim Weiss HYD? UOJ's blog has got the dirt on this whole evil extended mishpocho. You open up your own place in NJ & defecate on safety codes so that the dorm for your bochurim goes up in flames. And take a shverra baal davar eidim named Pechter the Fechter whose yeshiva in Riverdale is known to leave bochurim scarred for life. The tochter Rebbitzen Fechter has her own "contributions" working in a nursing home owned by someone on the corrupt Board of Yeshiva of Spring Valley that it was recently reported they are covering up an outbreak of deadly disease. Who cares when alter mentchen are going to die soon anyway? Even Lesin's Fechter granddaughters are in on the family tradition. There are at least 3 of them who don't belong in any chinuch capacity. They do perverse things to the kids. They lie to cover it up. One of them, just from being a camp director manages to cause long lasting tzorus to victim camper girls.