Police boarded an EasyJet flight that originated in Tel Aviv after it made an unscheduled landing in Luton England to “prevent a possible ‘breach of the peace’ by a group of strictly Orthodox Jewish men”.
According to a Jewish Chronicle report on Wednesday 19 Shevat, the flight in question departed on Monday at 14:55.
The problems began when chareidi passengers insisted they be seated next to men and not women. They refused to take their assigned seats. There was a delay as they reportedly blocked the aisle until some females voluntarily agreed to change seats to accommodate them.
The Jewish Chronicle report quoting passengers on the flight states ten men were involved, describing them as “ten men in black hats” who refused to be seated and then blocking the aisle.
Later into the flight, one of the men plugged his cell phone into the control panel area for one of the cabin crew, causing exit lights to turn on. A crew member instructed the man to remove the phone charger, explaining he was compromising the safety of the flight.
The airline said: “easyJet can confirm that flight EZY2084 from Tel Aviv to Luton on 13 February 2017 was met by police on arrival at London Luton due to a small group of passengers behaving disruptively by not complying with the captain and cabin crew’s request to take their seats both prior to departure from Tel Aviv and during the flight.
“For the safety of all passengers easyJet’s crew must ensure that whenever the seat belt signs are illuminated all passengers are in their seats with their seatbelts fastened.
“easyJet’s cabin crew are trained to assess and evaluate all situations and to act quickly and appropriately to ensure that the safety of the flight and other passengers is not compromised at any time.
“Separately during the flight a passenger plugged a mobile device into a USB port on the crew control panel in the forward galley in a foolish attempt to charge it.
“This led to the exit light above the panel being illuminated but did not in any way comprise the safety or security of the aircraft.”
Local police escorted the ten men off the flight. It does not appear that anyone was placed under arrest.
The women on that flight should have notified those crazed chareidim that they were all in the middle of their menstrual cycle and sat down on every seat on the plane and rubbed their bodies into the seats.
ReplyDeleteIf that wouldn't drive the crackpot chareidim to complete insanity, perhaps tampons thrown in their faces would.
Lol
DeleteThese guys are getting to the point of no return don't know where this is gonna end
DeleteThis is what their hyper learning toreh does it messes up their psych,theese hassidim need to be deprogrammed from all that insanity they they are taught in their insane yeshivas by their insane rebbis
ReplyDeleteDoesn't it just make regular English Jews cringe when they hear about the silly antics of these uber religious ones - what a wonderful holy Jewish image they portray!
ReplyDeletejancsibacsi, you are speaking like an Apikores! Please!
ReplyDeleteJancsibacsi,you are nothing but a MARMAROSHER FERD who has the brains of a diseased rat.
ReplyDeletei remmember you being the TUCHES LEKER of that antisemitic animal Scott Rosenberg of Failled Messiah,why don't you go and join him wherever the hell he is.
CHAIM
Abe, You have notified all of the readers of what types of thoughts are on your mind.
ReplyDeleteThis is not religion it's FANATISIM
ReplyDeleteCrazy people distorting the Torah
If you hold that the plane's rules violate your interpretation of Torah & halacha don't get on a plane ever. If they are chumros & midos chasidus, then you may not preform them, on the cheshbon of others let alone chilul Hashem.
ReplyDeleteIf you can't afford your own jet, stay home.
The only kaporah for chilul hashem is misa.
I know being sat between 2 females scares those from a Chareidi, background , the solution for that is book early enough to get an ISLE or window seat. If you are worried about sitting next to a lady, I guess we have heard stories of chasidimim & even a gabai of a Rebbe, not being able to resist that inappropriate touch. If you really can't control yourself a few hours, you need serious help. If you think it is a tznius problem, the problem of sitting behind a lady is worse.
Of Couse I would rather sit next to a man, but today you don't know anymore who is really a man or woman, so you may not get your wish, for all you know you are sitting next to Abby Stein. I try not to sit between 2 women, I once got a seat like that, the girl next to me was irreligious yet traditional, I asked her nicely if she was bothered, sitting next to a man who was between 2 women, she said although she isn't religious, she was still superstitious & gave up her isle seat with no issue. Had she not done so, I would have relied on the armrests as mechitzos.
8:49, very Emesdikke!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous @ 8:49
ReplyDeleteThat was very well stated.
jancsi's mind is so poisoned with self-hatred & loathing of anything Torah related from being Shmarya's obedient little poodle that he missed the boat. einer vus ligt in lernen would not behave like those heimishe morons on easyjet. only batlonishe ferds act like that
ReplyDeleteGood point against the nebichel Jancs. The Klausenburger Rebbe ztl said more or less the same thing about the Satmar chayos who act up.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you sick chumra yidden sit at home and make babies.
ReplyDeleteNo one wants to sit next to a smelling Chareidi who only showers maybe once a week.
"some females voluntarily agreed to change seats to accommodate them"
ReplyDeleteThat was a mistake. As long as people appease and enable these haredim, they will continue to act like backward primitives.
They really have no business on a plane if they have such a hypersensitivity to women and can't act normal and civilized.
Chafraud-Poopoovitch, rather 'brave' of you to take liberties on behalf of women who will probably get physically assaulted if they heed your advice just so you can feel good that you scored some points against those animals. And it's not fair that you seem to lump all Haredim together. This is an ignorant minority from among certain Hungarian chassidish groups.
ReplyDeleteToo many mental defects among the chassidim,all that toreh learning got to them,they dont belong in a civilized society of course there are many sane chassidim the few that behave in an anti social way marks the good ones for hate by others.
ReplyDelete"As long as people appease and enable these haredim"
ReplyDeleteTHESE haredim. As in these haredim who behave this way on airplanes. Please learn how to read, or ask for clarification, before trying to play hero to the haredi world. My children's roshei yeshivot wouldn't act that way, and they're haredim. But these haredim ARE, as I said, acting like "backward primitives."
" rather 'brave' of you to take liberties on behalf of women who will probably get physically assaulted if they heed your advice"
ReplyDeleteThat's disgusting. And the airline has a responsibility to all customers to remove anyone who behaves that way. Haredi or not.
And rather 'noble' of you to take the position that women should appease men's demands on a plane (or anywhere) to avoid being victims of violence.
Jancsibacsi,you are nothing but a MARMAROSHER FERD who has the brains of a diseased rat.
ReplyDeletei remmember you being the TUCHES LEKER of that antisemitic animal Scott Rosenberg of Failled Messiah,why don't you go and join him wherever the hell he is.
CHAIM.
Jancsibasci,
ReplyDeleteand you belong back in MARMAROSH together with all the FERDS in their stable,
you are nothing but a MARMAROSHER FERD who has the brains of a diseased rat.
i remember you being the TUCHES LEKER of that antisemitic animal Scott Rosenberg of Failled Messiah,why don't you go and join him wherever the hell he is.
CHAIM.
8:34 AM---It takes a MARMAROSHER FERD to know another MARMAROSHER FERD :)
ReplyDeleteAish Kokosh is a brainless deseased hassid.
ReplyDeleteYou've been swallowing too much mikva water
It says Deracheha darkei Noam. The Torahs ways are SWEET. This group of misfits are obviously not Torah people. He'd they been Torah people this whole ugly and disgusting incident would not have occurred.
ReplyDeleteIt seems like stories like these are happening more and more often.
ReplyDeleteCan't some Rebbi/Posek figure out a solution to end this once and for all?
I've never been a part of the Chassidish world and maybe on the fringe (or at least fairly knowledgeable) of the Yeshiva world. But, perhaps I've been out of that so long that I'm missing something. I've never had an issue with sitting next to, between, behind women, and have no problem "Controlling" myself.
Do people really sit next to a women and then are unable to control themselves and not touch (really it's not called "Touch", it's more accurately "Molest" or "Assault") them?
Maybe someone can explain it to me. I would think that if a man is aware enough to be concerned about sitting next to a woman because he may not be able to control himself, that if he ended up sitting next to a woman, since He's already "Aware", then he would not have a problem with controlling himself. I don't know, maybe that's just me.
Perhaps this is connected to another issue I could never understand. It seems that a lot of the craziness about "Controlling oneself" is driven by the constant thinking, focus, and discussion of it.
I know normal Non-Jewish, Non-Religious, and Non-Chassidsh/Non-Very Yeshivish men have no problem sitting next to a woman on a plane. When I go to my seat, it really makes no difference whether a man or a woman is in the next seat. I'm flying to get somewhere, and not to "Touch" or "Meet up" with a woman, so this whole concept being discussed never enters my mind.
Maybe the lack of constantly obsessing over it makes it a non-issue?
Also, Let's be real. When a man that has a problem sitting next woman ends up for whatever reason having to. Does anything ever happen? Do people think woman on flights are looking to be involved in touching with the Chassidish man (or any man for that matter) sitting next to her? Just like when I am flying I have other things on my mind, woman as well just want to relax and get where their going without engaging in "Touching" with a stranger.
Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.
11:51, they are Torah people - one action doesn't make them not. I just think this situation should have been treated much differently.....
ReplyDelete8:04, yes. There really shouldn't be a problem.
ReplyDeleteBut.... the people likely aren't afraid that they will touch or molest or whatever a woman. Rather, #1, perhaps they are afraid of a bad thought; or also perhaps they don't find it Tzniusdikke to sit next to one.
AishKodesh,
ReplyDelete"afraid of a bad thought"
Hahhahahah. Clearly a weakness on their part and an inability to deal with their own human self. They're pathetic. Perhaps they can simply let the thought come and then go... then bang their chest a few times on Yom Kippur and make their mental "sin" all better.
It sure beats their chillul HaShem.
1st, a little of topic but relevant to this. It seems like this is a good site to discuss these kinds of topics, and perhaps learn something while doing so. There seems to be a large cross-section of people here, from Chassidish/Very Yeshivish (for brevity I'll refer to them as "UO"-Ultra-Orthodox) to Modern-Orthodox (MO) to Non-Religious to Anti-Religious. Some seem to be on the very religious end, whose outlook is entirely shaped by more than just Torah and Halacha but also the Derech of the Gadol they choose to follow, to a degree that "Das Torah" reigns supreme and it's not only simply not thinking for oneself, its NOT WANTING to think for oneself, as they feel they don't know enough or certainly less than the Gedolim and whatever the Gedolim say is what they want to do, without ever questioning it, or needing to know why the Gadol ruled or said what they did. That my not be OK or even understood by some. But, as far as I understand, it is a legitimate path in Judaism, so agree or disagree, it should at least be respected. One thing to keep in mind, is from what I understand, in most of the more extreme Religious communities, the Internet is banned, so all should keep in mind that the voices and opinions of those are not being heard.
ReplyDeleteThere also the more middle ground of Yeshivish but not to extremes and even Modern Orthodox, and some that are not religious, though I believe most of those grew up Orthodox, and probably a large part of them "Very" Religious. As for the Anti-Religious, I'd guess most had some type of bad experience(s) with being Frum, and harbor some anger and animosity towards the "Very Religious", the "System", "Rabbis/Poskim", "Gedolim", etc. I think their opinions are an important and relevant part of these discussions and everyone needs to be both respectful of the religious and religion, as well as respectful of those giving those opinions that may not come out to nicely about some issues in Judaism. Perhaps, the religious can raise clear and cogent points that bring the Anti-Religious into the camp of those that love Judaism, or at least lower their animosity. A win/win for all. Pretty much, the best conversations and debates take place when everyone RESPECTS everyone else. One thing I'm pretty sure everyone has in common, which is what helps make this work, is that everyone, regardless of current religiosity, is coming for an Orthodox point of view. Where Torah and Halacha are premium (even if not kept by all posters), adding views from other streams of Judaism wouldn't be helpful, and would probably take away on many levels.
As for the poor spelling and grammar. While I know much of it is due to a lack of formal secular education, I'm willing to chalk it up to "Typing quickly" and the more informal manner of the Internet. So, even though I know it's not totally true, as long as the message is understandable, I won't, nor do I think anyone else should, make that an issue. Also, neither I nor anyone else is perfect in this area.
Part 2
ReplyDeleteThe last part of my "Rant" concerns the "Name Calling". It really seems Juvenile and Immature to do so. Also, generally name calling happens when people don't have a good argument. I can't imagine, as I'm 99.99% sure it never happened, that great Rabbis debating ever resorted to Name Calling. I think it'd do a lot for these discussions, and also help not foster hatred, if everyone refrained from doing so. Can anyone imagine Hillel or Shammai, or Reb Moshe or a Chassidish Rebbe calling their "Debate Sparring Partner" names? Perhaps the best argument and reason for not doing so is assumably your not just "Sounding Off" but are trying to convince others, especially those that disagree with you, that your view is the right and correct one. I know for myself, and I'm sure most others, resorting to name calling takes away from your argument, the respect one would have for your opinion, and makes you look small and petty. Not to mention, (as I did before:-), generally when a person knows their wrong but doesn't want to except it, or can't counter the others points with better ones of their own, is when they, mostly out of frustration, resort to "Name Calling"
Sorry this was so long, I'm new here and I hope to make use of this site, so I wanted to let others know where I'm coming from at the start, (B"N, I'll only do it this one time).
Part 3
ReplyDeleteNow on to the issue. From 2/20/17 11:18a.m. and 2/21/17 11:55a.m.
I can (somewhat) understand the issue of not wanting to sit next to a woman for Tznius reasons. What I don't get is, When these people have to leave their home area for a few days, Don't they look into where they'll get Kosher food or how they'll keep Shabbos? They don't wait until they get there to start looking into it, in other words, they plan. Why is this different? If they don't want to sit between 2 women, they can book early enough to get a window or aisle seat. Saying they didn't do it or think of it, doesn't seem like a valid answer.
No Frum person knowing their going away does "Not Plan" or " Forget" to look into how they'll have Kosher food to eat. Can anyone imagine, of course I'm not talking about a last minute emergency but with Kosher even then, that a Frum person comes back home and says, "I ate Treif the last few days" and when asked why answers, "Oh, I forgot to make arrangements before I went away." If a person is really serious for Tznius reasons to not sit next to a woman, they can also buy the seat next to them. As for the cost, again, would they say that about Kosher? "I ate Treif because the Kosher food was too expensive." If it's really important to someone, they make the necessary plans, even sacrifices, and figure out a solution. If sitting next to a woman is not important enough to them to plan or spend the extra money, it doesn't seem right to then get there and make a big issue. I believe the saying is, "The lack of planning on your part does not make an emergency on my part."
As for, "Afraid of a bad thought" does the woman need to be seated next to them for that to happen? I know I find myself looking at an attractive woman whether their next to me, 2 seats away from me, sitting across the room, or walking down the same street as me. I'm not so sure that being right next to a women, creates a bigger effect, or is much of a difference. Also, What does this man to the rest of the time? How do they ever go out of their house? Outside the home, Aren't they always being exposed to women that create a "Bad thought"?
Also, I was taught that if a person plans to do a Mitzvah, even if they can't, there's still some reward involved. However, when it comes to an Aveirah, that's not true. A person can only be punished for an Aveirah if they actually commit it. I guess it comes down to 2 things. First, how do people that are so sensitive to this ever leave their house? Second, why are they afraid of "Bad thoughts" when they know they A. Cant control them, B. Have worked on themselves enough that they know they won't act on them, and C. Know that they not responsible nor will be punished for thoughts alone. Of course I'm not saying a person should actively put themselves in situations of seeing women because they know they won't be punished for their thoughts. But, if they want to live a semi-normal life they know it'll happen and the main thing is to make sure nothing that is actually an Aveirah, like moving on to physically touching will come about from it.
Again, sorry for such a long post, and to those that read the whole thing, Thank You!
As always, responses to my questions are greatly appreciated and I look forward to them.
"New Guy", your view seems very much אֶמֶת. Your words show both a highly intellectual person as well as a Torahdikke, Mussardikke Yid. As long as you have a heter for reading the Lashon Hara that is spoken on this site (such as trying to stop it, as I try), please continue to post! You seem like you would help very much!
ReplyDeleteAs for your long posts, I enjoyed reading them. Again, the length shows that you can write intelligently for a long time.
I look forward to continuing to converse with you! If you want, I have a Torah blog, and would happy to speak with you there, if you would like. https://achsameach.blogspot.com.
Kol Tuv!
אש קודש
You have to ask yourself whether or not that, through any particular action, you are making Judaism look like a Circus and hence off-putting to other Jews. Trying to arrange a minyan on a flight, to daven Mincha, and spending a maximum of seven minutes from the start to the finish of your Tefillot is a disgrace. All such hurried prayers are an abomination and better they were never offered up in the first place. If you have Kaddish to say and it's that important then you should have tried to get a minyan in the departure lounge. If you are that concerned about not sitting next to a woman, don't fly discount. Pay the extra money and book yours seats beforehand. HaShem will be more pleased with you for that, rather than causing an raucous or an inconvenience to others aboard a public flight. Shalom!
ReplyDelete