 |
| Hadar Goldin HY"D |
Believe me I am not making this up.
Der Yid, the Zalonie Satmar faction's, Yiddish newspaper, under the Headline לא תרצח is writing that the IDF actually murdered the Religious Soldier, Lt. Hadar Goldin.,
Goldin, was an officer in the Givati Brigade, that was part of a group of soldiers who had found a Hamas tunnel in a rural area near Rafah, and they were working on decommissioning it when they were attacked.
Der Yid claims, that since Israel has a policy of "No sodier left behind" when Goldin's
comrades saw him being kidnapped, they murdered him in cold blood.
DIN: We believe that Menachem Stark HY"D was murdered by the Zalonies, because he had info on the Rebbe, so the Rebbe set him up! We believe that's why they burned his body, so that there would be no finger prints. We believe that the Rebbe had him killed on Shabbos, when everybody was busy eating at the Rebbe's tish.
This is the filth that
these Romanian sickos are feeding their readers.
A loose translation of the second & third paragraph:
"For the last 10 days, the Jewish streets are totally in an uproar, about the scary murder story that the IDF perpertrated on one of their own. The IDF condemned and most likely carried out the murder on their own officer with the name Hadar Goldin.
No! He wasn't a spy, nor was he a traitor , he was a loyal soldier who served in the Givati Battallion in Gaza. There on the battlefield, the IDF condemned him to death and carried thru the order. Hadar never returned and his body was never found. To verify his death, the IDF got experts and their Chief Rabbi Rafi Peretz, and they concluded that he was dead."
Hadar's parents and the IDF should sue DerGoy for printing this nonsense.
ReplyDeleteWhy would anyone be surprised by this,after all these same criminally insane Jew hating Romanian gipsy bastards,also blame the Zionist for the murder of the six million jews
ReplyDeleteAnd rightfuly so, the zionists instigated sinas yisroel all over the world, claiming that Jews are not loyal to the countries they live in, and are a danger to the lands, thereby by and large bringing out the inherent natrual sinas yisroel thats imbedded in most gentiles, so yes there you have it, the zionists have a major part in the inahalation of more than 6 million Jews, dam shel millionim bnei yisroel is what it cost to establish the malchus harishaa, and is still costing nafshos yisroel rachmanalutzlon kimat on a daily basis, sinas yisroel is rampant and growing, and much more open these days on an alarming scale as never before since ww2,, all on account of national zionism, and this is happening all over the world, including the malchus shel chesed the USA, hashem yerachem Al amo veal artzo.
DeleteNo no no, they are not the Jew haters, you you you are the Jew hater, they are the original authentic Jews, who follow the torah just like Moshe rabeinu was mekabeil misinai, prior to ww2, all (but a few who were biktzay hamachne) chassidish litvish Hungarian polish galitzianer gedolim etc. etc. were anti zionists, and then the zionists were much ehrlicher, the hisnagdus was based on the sholos shevuos, among them was that bnei yisroel are not allowed to have an own medinah before moshiach, the Torah hasnt changed cant be changed, therefore everything about the medinah is neged hatorah.
ReplyDeleteto 5:03
ReplyDeleteThe Lubavitcher Rebbe told the Sadigerer Rebbe in 1980, that there is no such thing as the "sholosh Shevuois" , I have the transcript which I will post soon.
Ezra Hasoifer was not concerned with the Sholosh Shevuois and urged Jews to make Aliyah from Bovel!
The Sholos Shevuois is an aggadeta in the Gemarah and has no relevance now or ever!
The Torah that your are taking about was not given by Hashem on Har Sinai. The Torah that you refer to, was given by Satmar Rebbe in Romania!
The " chassidish litvish Hungarian polish galitzianer gedolim etc. etc" that you refer to, all wanted to make Aliyah, for example the Vilna Gaon, actually sold his house in Vilna but had to turn back because his daughter got sick, but his talmidim by in large made aliyah to Yerushalayim, the Baal Shem Tov attempted many times to make Aliyah but his Talmidim by in large made Aliyah to Teverye, The Chafetz Chayim was ready to make Aliyah but was hampered by wars in his vicinity, The Satmar Rebbe himself who was saved by the Zionists first went to Israel, but fled to the USA after some of his chassidim whose parents wanted to make Aliyah during WW2, and was talked out of it by Reb Yoilish, wanted to get the hell out of the then Palestine.
Most of the litvisher Gedoilim gave their talmidim wrong advice during WW2
BTW, Torah was actually changed by the Satmar Rebbe.... The Midrash Rabba parshas Shmos and in Shir Shashirim, writes "Me'olom lo zaza shechina m'kosel ha'marvi"
The Satmar rebbe said many times that doesn't mean the Kosel , but means" m'arave shel olom"
So if he can so easily change what the midrash says explicitly in many places, how do I now know what any Gemarrah means? Now, anyone can change the meaning...
I'm waiting for the story with the lubavitcher rebbe, please don't forget to post.
DeleteThanks
The sholosh shevuos are all about 'shelo yaalu bechoma', meaning an organized Aliyah, therefore its totally irrelevant talking about many tzaddikim going to eretz yisroel to live their lives in eretz hakodesh mitoch evodas hakodesh. Nobody but nobody, lubavitsher rebbe included can be mechadesh new interpertations on mamrei chazal that were understood otherwise all thru the doros,(including the prior lubavitsh rebbe, see sefer tikkun olam). Changing yesodos that were holy all thru the ages, just to accomodate the 'enlighted' way of thinking, is what guided the 'maskilim' of all ages, & continues today by the Reform & coservative movements, just look at where they are today.
DeleteWell well, the prior lubavitsher rebbes were all anti zionists, no less then the Satmar rebbe, apparentley the last lubavitch rebbe had no problem changing his shvers shita, veal zeh anu danim, all the authentic gedolim from before ww2,, were against zionism, hamotzi mechavero alav haraye, emesdige yiddishkeit cannot be changed. And all the gedolim you mentioned that went to Israel or wanted to go, ze dome keuclo ledano, yechidim may go to isreal, whats osur is aliya bechoma, with all due respect, to the last lubavutch rebbe, the shela hakadosh the maharal veod veod all are maatik the shlosh shevuos lehalacha, as yehureg veal yaavor, even bemachshava, nobody including the last rebbe can be mechulek on the prior gedolim, bichlal your way of answering those that disagree whith you is childish shelo min hainyan, mostly shtusim, obviously you have your maskilishe axe to grind.
ReplyDelete"Ezra Hasoifer was not concerned with the Sholosh Shevuois and urged Jews to make Aliyah from Bovel!"
ReplyDeleteActually yes he was. The ramban in Maamar hageulah #1 that the reason more Jews did not go up when Koresh gave permission is because they thought that the Shevuos forbade them from going up they did not know they had a Nevuah that overrode the shevuos in that instance. The same things happened with Ezra.
"The Sholos Shevuois is an aggadeta in the Gemarah and has no relevance now or ever!"
Then why do the Rashbash (#2), Rivash (#110), Piskei Riaz, Migilas Ester al Harambam, Rambam in Igeres Teiman, Ramban in Maamar Hageulah, Maharal (Netzach Yisroel #24) bring it down L'halacha?
Also, Rabbeinu Tam says that we pasken by aggatita (unless in conflicts with a halacha).
Also, what is aggadic about this Gemorah? It is Chazal telling us what not to do (Just like Chazal telling us the oaths of Naaseh V'nishma do we also not listen to those?).And lastly even if it wasn't halacha it represents the Ratzon Hashem because Hashem tells us through torah shbaal peh what bad things with happen for not keeping the Shevuos.
"The " chassidish litvish Hungarian polish galitzianer gedolim etc. etc" that you refer to, all wanted to make Aliyah, for example the Vilna Gaon, actually sold his house in Vilna but had to turn back because his daughter got sick, but his talmidim by in large made aliyah to Yerushalayim, the Baal Shem Tov attempted many times to make Aliyah but his Talmidim by in large made Aliyah to Teverye, The Chafetz Chayim was ready to make Aliyah but was hampered by wars in his vicinity"
Ahhh the usual straw man's fallacy. No one is arguing against moving to the land of Israel so those raayas you tried to bring no one is arguing against (BTW do you know who the Gra's talmidim from the old Yishuv are today?).
"Most of the litvisher Gedoilim gave their talmidim wrong advice during WW2"
NU? "Mashiv chachamim achor vdaatam yisachel"
Kol hakavod, how clearly you repudiate the blog editors childish aam hoaraatzoz, how he talks about devarim haomdim berumo shel olam with meisalach Hersey and vertlach out of context, all in order to perpetuate his own farkrumte deos kozvos. Techzakna yadeichem, yehu ratzon sheyelamdu toim bina, umalaa kol haaretz dea es hashem.
DeleteThe gemarah refers derogatorially several times to those who stayed in Bavel instead of going with Ezra. The CHET that is refereed to at the lack of the ness in rebuilding the 2nd bet Hamikdash was the chet of refusing to make aliyeh with Ezra. Marrying gentile women was less a chet than refusing to go to Eretz Yisroel. 3 oaths are an excuse not to to make aliyh, that;s all it is. Rambam doesn't bring it down lehalochu in mishne Torah, the iggeret Teiman is NOT halacha.In any case those you mention are yechidim and most didn't ever consider an aggadeteh lekalocha.We don't necessarily pasken like Rabbeinu Tam and you know that.If you want to paske like him all the way then you also have to pasken like him when he argues with Rashi and Rambam about the essence nature of G-D which he doesn't rule out some kind of tangibility in him. Assuredly, all the poskim that you mention would have chamged their minds had they been alive in in the 20th century. We pasken like the latest rav in our generation not like even a tanna. And there were many rabbonim who didn't see the 3 oaths as a problem. That's because they loved Israel and had ruach hakodesh to see the truth.
ReplyDeleteYes, most rabbonim gave their people wrong advice before WWII.
Regardless of your points, there's one party who wanted Israel and it's the Almighty, therefore all your arguments are like urinating in the wind.
all the gedolim that were against the zionists, said what they said, was because of their love to eretz yisroel, the kedusha of eretz yisroel, thereby fighting to preserve kedushas haaretz, the zionists dogma has nothing to do whith Torah umitzvos, kedusha vetahara
DeleteTo anonymous 3:08,'
ReplyDeleteYour remarks about berumo shel olam is an obvious farkrumte maraglim denial in the reality of Eretz Yisroel.It isn't berumo shel olam thing , it's obvious down here to even a dumb child, but you are a nachbi ben Vovsi who also knew a little Torah and brought a bchiyah ldorot. yehi ratzon that you should be part of velamdu toim binah umaalu kol haaretz dea et Hashem.
To the anonymous who went by the name of Svetlana and who's remarks were totally disproven by me and other on previous threads:
ReplyDeleteAs the boxer Joe Louis once said of an opponent in the ring, " You can run, but you can't hide." You didn't answer my question of whether you daven like in the DEEEE-Reckishe SHITta that Israel should ch"v" be destroyed. Answer it or be gone.
About Ezra;
Why didn’t the majority of Jews join in? In the harsh words of the Torah giant, the real Dass Torah Rabbi Yehuda HaLevi, The Kuzari, they preferred to stay in Bavel with their businesses and villas, and undermining our return to the Land:
... "This is the sin which kept the Divine Promise with regard to the Second Temple from being fulfilled. Divine Providence was ready to restore everything as it had been at first, if they all had willingly consented to return. But only a part was ready to do so, whilst the majority and the aristocracy amongst them remained in Babylon, preferring dependence and slavery, unwilling to leave their mansions and their affairs. Had we been prepared to meet the God of our Forefathers with an honest mind, we would have found the same salvation as our fathers did in Egypt...."
The people in Bavel made a tragic mistake by remaining in the comforts of Exile in the time of
the Geula of Ezra. The Tanach lists for all eternity, the names of every family that made the tough decision to join Ezra in that first
aliyah.
Rav Yaakov Emden writes (Commentary to the Siddur) that “…every Jew must resolve in
his heart to settle in Eretz Yisrael as soon as he has the means to finance his move and to be able to eke
out a meager livelihood by means of a trade or business….” How much more so since we are
experiencing Geula!
Vilner Gaon:
They have been sucked into the sin of the Spies that the belief of settling the land doesn't apply today, an opinion that has been proven false by the Torah giants of the world, both EARLY and LATER halachic authorities (Kol Hator).
Rav Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld,
“…anyone who
has the ability to come to Eretz Yisroel and doesn’t, will have to account for his failure in the future world.”
I could go on and on and on.
Your reyis from those who hold the 3 shvuos are halacha are in the minority, and on top of that , those shvuos are irrelevant today as I've already pointed out in a previous thread. I light my Chanukah candles like Bet Hillle, and you bring in the psak of Bes Shammai. As a piece of Torah learning, it's fine. You can learn it and get schar in Gan Eden.... eating your wife's falsche fish and compote with your buddies there, and not psak lehalacha.
Listen.... This week's parshe is Re'ei.... You have before you 2 ways... Mr. Anon... Choose wisely.. Which side do you want to be on? The true Torah side with theopen kibbutz galios and nissim or the sitra achra side? We're getting closing to the final geula... The Satan & sitra achra is gasping his last with anger... Don't get sucked into the Satmar/ Litvish lap dog sira achra shittah. Think for yourself and be on the side of Calev & Yehoshua even though they're the minority in a world where a majority of falsehood,meraglim beliefs, distortions and machlokes exists. Read today's sedra and choose wisely. Open your fahr-robotted malaga-soaked eyes and see clearly.
the Derby
To 3:08,
ReplyDeleteThe deos kozvos are all yours, b'chol hakavod.I'm amazed as to how you know which things are brumo shel olam .... unless you're not punching a clock and have time to investigate... whatever...
Derby
Zionist Flag says,
ReplyDelete******Reish Lakish said to Rabbah bar bar Chanah, "By G-d, I hate you. (Rashi
explains: 'I hate...all Babylonians, because they did not ascend to Eretz Yisrael at
the time of Ezra. They prevented the Shechinah from returning to rest upon the
Second Temple.') It is thus written, If she be a wall, we will build upon her a
battlement of silver; and if she be a door, we will enclose her with a cedar board
(Shir HaShirim 8:9): Had you made yourselves like a wall and ascended all together
to Eretz Yisrael at the time of Ezra, you would have been compared to silver which
does not decay (and the redemption would have been complete). Now that you
went up like doors,123 you were compared to cedar which decays (meaning, the
edifice was destroyed)." (Yoma 9b)
The Ya'avetz (Siddur Beit Ya'akov, Sullam Beit El, p. 14b.) explains [the homiletic
passage in which Eliyahu] appears to R. Chiya as a fiery bear (Bava Metzia 85b):
For he [the angelic minister of Persia, who appears as a bear] prosecutes against
the Babylonian Jews who did not ascend when Cyrus, king of Persia, gave them
permission to do so. Had they ascended during that divine visitation, [their efforts]
would not have decayed and the redemption would have been complete...
Therefore, there is room to prosecute, because the Babylonians caused the exile to
be lengthened.
Anon 5:42 "Rambam doesn't bring it down lehalochu in mishne Torah, the iggeret Teiman is NOT halacha"
ReplyDeleteThe poskim all say that we follow the Iggeres Teiman OVER the mishnah torah l'halacha if there is a contradiction. If there is no contradiction kal vchomer we have to follow the igeres teiman l'halacha.
To Derby:
" You didn't answer my question of whether you daven like in the DEEEE-Reckishe SHITta that Israel should ch"v" be destroyed. Answer it or be gone."
I cant tell if this is directed at me becuase i never had an argument with you before but if it was I do NOT ch'v daven for israel to be destoyed.
"Why didn’t the majority of Jews join in? In the harsh words of the Torah giant, the real Dass Torah Rabbi Yehuda HaLevi, The Kuzari, they preferred to stay in Bavel with their businesses and villas, and undermining our return to the Land..."
You missed my point. AVADEH those jews were wrong! Everyone agrees to that. The reason they didnt go up was because they didnt know about the nevuah that they were supposed to so they though it violated the Shevuos. They didnt know that it didnt violate the oaths because of the nevuah. (ramban) But they were still wrong.
" How much more so since we are
experiencing Geula!"
Please explain.
"Vilner Gaon:
They have been sucked into the sin of the Spies that the belief of settling the land doesn't apply today, an opinion that has been proven false by the Torah giants of the world, both EARLY and LATER halachic authorities (Kol Hator)."
The Kol Hatorah was not written by the Vilna Gaon. The most zionist with at least admit it was written by Rabbi Hillel Rivlin as talmid of the gaon. Anyway many secular historians have questioned the authenticity of the work (1 reason being is that it uses modern hebrew)
" those shvuos are irrelevant today as I've already pointed out in a previous thread"
dont know which thread you are talking about. Pls elaborate.
I'm not going to elaborate on the shvuos as I've already done so as did others , please check previous threads. It's a non-issue today and many rabbonim agree. Suffice it to briefly say, that the umos haolam recognized a need for a home for the Jewish people and voted to establish it, umos haolam violated their part of it, and there's a different girseh as to the word "Yidcheku es hakeitz" which reads "Yircheku, which gives it the opposite meaning and..... it's an aggadeteh.
ReplyDeleteAdmorim like R's Reinis, Kalischer, Guttmacher, Teichtal, Goren, Kook didn't rule for the shvuos. The Kol Hator quotes the Gaon, he didn't make it up himself.It IS the gaon who said it.
When millions have returned to Eretz Yisroel al pi nissim, nissim in all the wars, stable and growing economy, turning desert into lush fields, Rab Abba's memreh that there's nothing more evident than the hischalteh d'geulah than the blooming and growing of flowers and crops and rebirth of the land, The great Torah learning than anywhere else in the world,etc. etc, it's enough for me.
My words were directed at the Satmar defending apologist and not to you in particular since I don't know who you are, but he knows who he is.
Iggeres Teiman is NOT halacha because even by your definition, there's no contradiction here. The Rambam completely and simply ignores it. So what are you talking about? Only anti-Zionists twist it into a pretzel and make iggeres a halacha which was never meant to be one by the Rambam.
I'd also be curious what Rambam would write in 1940-44 to Jews and if he'd still write about shvuos. I doubt it. You guys are coming with a letter from 800 years ago about a situation in Yemen not at all similar to Nazi Europe and want to make a halacha out of it.. No way, Jose... !! Tell it to Tante Jenny..!!
You need daas also when paskening, no??
It's a waste of our time to keep talking about shvuos which are not relevant only, as I said, as piece of Torah to be learned for the sake of limud Torah, not for psaks.
Look here.... It's like I'm showing you a candy bar and you say it can't be because somebody paskens that it isn't allowed to be produced and won't succeed until such and such a time. Relearn and rethink the shvuos. Hashem allowed for a State and there's nothing anybody can do about it and no matter how many Toirelech and support you give. It's already and forever a moot argument. The honorable and clear-eyed pro-Zionist gedolim have already discussed it, you guys keep bringing it back based on nothing, and VOILA..... The State of Israel is here b"h after such a Holocaust which in any case negated the shvuos.... Hashem watches over it, and you guys need to get over it. There's nothing more to add to the shvuos .
Learn it like you learn Ihr Hanidachas and Sorer /Moreh... for the Torah of it, not for psak. End of shvuoses story,. I'm not interested in further discussion about it because greater and holier minds than I already explained them ad infinitum to most Jews' satisfaction except for groups of stubborn holdouts whose shittas are contradicted by the miraculous events and can't reconcile them.
Done with shvuos.... How're the Mets doing?
The Derby, en route to defend our holy Israel from our own malshinim..
To Ama Ratzim
ReplyDeleteI have a question to those who say that the Shosh Shevuois are binding.
1) When did G-D make that oath?
2) To Whom?
3) Which Navie?
4) Where was this oath made?
5) If it was made to a Navie, why isn't mentioned in the entire Tanach?
6) If this was a Halacha L'Moshe M'sinai, why doesn't it say so.
7) why isn't this oath mentioned in the Yerushalmie, Midrash rabba, Midrash Tanchumah, Sifri, Safru, Mechiltah?
As a an older gentleman in my shul, a big talmid chahham one told me:
ReplyDeleteThe shvuos never happened in real time. No Am Yisroel was assembled at any mountain at any time to accept shvuos. That's why it's an aggadeteh, like a midrash to be understood on a deeper level.
As I posted earlier, Holocaust negates every single shvuah in any case. You guys... have some heart and be happy for your brothers and sisters who finally found a home in Eretz Yisroel. Have you no hearts??? Obsessing over shvuos?????/ You're all insane... as Joan Rivers said... Insane.....
Don't you know that Yerusahalayim was destroyed because batei dinin paskened and ruled without mercy? So even on an improbable scenario that you're right... don't you think it's time to pasken with heart????/ What's wrong with you?????/ Iggeret Teiman from almost 1,000 yers ago they want to make into a halcha... You're insane...
Comment 11:49 posted by the Derby...I sign what I write but missed this one.
ReplyDeleteAnon 10:35,
ReplyDeleteNo major posek brings the 3 oaths as halacha. Not the Rambam, Tur, Mordechai, Chinuch, Rosh, Ramban or any other prominent one.
This is the first time that a letter to a community is considered halacha by you and your ilk. This is not the mesorah way for paskening anything. Even if you bring proof of some who consideres the letter to teiman halacha, it certainly doesn't apply to all situations, least of all to contemporary times. It's such a stretch as not to be considered serious. The responses above already well explained the oaths but to add one more,no prohibition of any oath was violated the way they were written. No fair minded talmid chacham today thinks that they apply anymore.
The Paskudnyak said;
ReplyDeleteAs everybody knows , an rav's psak for an individual or even specific group cannot be used to necessarily pasken for anybody else especially when it's hundreds of years old. The Igeres Tayman is such a case. An honest posek doesn't use , of all things, a letter psak centuries old to pasken for a tzibbur hundreds of years later in totally different situations. In every which way, the Rambam didn't pasken there at all. Read the letter and you'll see why. They are grasping for straws and it's not kosher.
To Srulic
ReplyDeleteI will post it tomorrow
To 3:08
I'll admit that I'm not familiar with the Agerres Teiman
But I'm very familiar with the Ramban, that paskens l"halacha that Yishuv Eretz Yisroel is a Mitzva B'zman Hazeh! And he questions whether Mitzvos done in Chutz L'eretz is even valid!
So now let's hear from the guys saying that the Ramban was a shaygetz since he didn't hold from the irrelevant Satmar Shitah!
To Dus iz nieas (BTW i have not insulted you once there seams to be a pretty constant theme with you of insulting anyone you are arguing with. That is a little sad that you have to sink to such a level but whatever when you on the wrong side of an argument you might just have to insult the other side)
ReplyDeleteI guess by responding it make me one of the "Ama Ratzim " but anyway:
1) When did G-D make that oath?
In the time of Shlomo Hamelech
2) To Whom?
To shlomo to teach to Bnei Yisroel
3) Which Navie?
shlomo
4) Where was this oath made?
(These seem a little repetative) Yerushalaim
5) If it was made to a Navie, why isn't mentioned in the entire Tanach?
It is. Shir Hashirim
6) If this was a Halacha L'Moshe M'sinai, why doesn't it say so.
I didnt say its halacha lmoshe misinai.
7) why isn't this oath mentioned in the Yerushalmie, Midrash rabba, Midrash Tanchumah, Sifri, Safru, Mechiltah?
It is. Read medrash rabba on shir hashirim and medrash rabba and tanchuma and there mefarshin on the pshat on Bnei Efraim getting killed.
2:59
ReplyDeleteYou are the one that is doing the insulting....
insulting the Gedoilei Hador that say that the Sholosh Shevuois is irrelevant!
In Shir Hashirim? Where?
Didn't the Chazal want to throw out the whole sefer until R' Akivah said that Shir Hashirim is the holiest? And nowhere is it mentioned that Shir Hashirim is Neveeois... The whole Shir Hashirim is an allegory ... that's why Chazal had problems with the sefer.. because it reads as a book between lovers.
R' Akiva had to come along and say that it is a poem describing the relationship between Hashem and Bnei Yisroel...
You cannot pasken anything from Shir Hashirim!
Show another place in all of Shas that the Sholosh Sevuois is mentioned, I am waiting with bated breath.
I just did a search with Bar Ilan software, and nothing came up!
I wrote back a while ago about the Bnei Efraim ....
Bnei Efraim left Mitrayim .... so are you saying that the Sholosh Shevuois was still in Mitzrayim? Didn't you say that it was said to Shlomo?
The Mirdrash Rabba Anfd Tanchuma talk about the Bnei Efraim that left Egypt before Moshe Rabeinu was on the scene..
I have no clue to what you are blabbering about!
Bnai Efraim left Egypt before a specific exact time for geulah.They were not successful.
ReplyDeleteOur galus on the other hand has no timeline for its end and Medinat Yisrael WAS successful. Apples and oranges as usual.
Te gemarah bases the oaths on psukim from Shir Hashirim and most commentators on the spot ( u can look it up) ignore the mention of the oaths. There's no proof whatsoever that it happened in Shlomo's or any other time in some kind of mass gathering or through any navi.You're making it up as u go along. You mention midrashim and you can NOT derive actual happenings from them. Mesichte Sofrim mention how many animals were eaten by Avrohom, Elazar's unbelievable height, other places say how tall Moshe was and these are not to be taken literally, says the Maharal.Even the heilige Art Scroll writes about sensational events recorded by Chazal that they are not meant literal.Check Mesichte Sanhedrin at the end for some examples.
Another example is the midrash that Lavon was Bilaam who would have been 400 years old and the Torah says that he was killed in his 30s. No commentator takes that literally.
Midrashim are rarely to be taken literally, they're lessons disguised as stories as was the custom of the time. Another disturbing fact is that very few midrashim have a provenance of authorship, nobody is sure who wrote many and maybe most them.
3:52 written by Derby. Must be the Malaga that I'm being forced to taste so I'm forgetful sometimes. Cheers...
ReplyDeleteWhy the back and forth?
1... Bnai Efraim was explained above and the Malaga groupies keep regurgitating and maale geyru'ing it ad nauseum.
2.... Enough of the shvuos please... They d-0 n-o-t a-p-p-l-y . Do NOT...Which part of that don't you guys understand? Another maaleh gey recycled agaddeteh... Put on your glasses.... Israel is here.. !!!!! Shvuos, even if they once did, do not apply.... Hashem worked through the modern day Koreshes to grant Jews a legal piece of land as their homeland... Hello ??!!
Stop rebelling against the will of the Almighty using Toirelech shelo lishmuh.This is the beginning of the geulah.. By the way, the Vilna Gaon's son Avrohom , writes in Tehillim 121... That first there will be a kibbutz in EY before Moshiach. Moshiach will then be appointed the head but that Hashem Himself will do the geulah.. D'Yez hear..??? Hashem bichvodo uvatzmoh will slowly begin the geulah and kibbutz galios, not Moshiach...... No shvuos here, boyz.... Check it out yourselves.... That agrees with the Radak and Ramban to name a few... No shvuos..... Your cd is cracked... Keeps playing the word "shvuos" over and over again. Move the needle already or whatever it is...
You DO NOT have a monopoly on the truth...History is being played out far different than what you think, or what I once though as a bochur years ago.
No more Malaga... No more robot shuckling...
Derby, must... must... go on an errand.. Can't sit here and argue with the nonbelieving kofrim... Too-de-loo.!!!!
The Three Oaths________________
ReplyDeleteThe 16th Century Kabbalist, Rabbi Chaim Vital expressed the view that the Three Oaths were only binding for the first thousand years of Exile.
Maimonides’ Epistle to Yemen, he explicitly interprets the oaths metaphorically, and not literally. As it states there “Therefore he admonished and adjured them in metaphorical language (דרך המשל, lit. by way of metaphor) to desist.” Therefore, they maintain, that Maimonides did not consider them to be Halachically binding.[20]
A member of the Haredi community, Rabbi Chaim Walkin points out in his book, Da'at Chaim, that Maimonides discussed the Three Oaths only in the Epistle to Yemen, but not in his Halachic work, the Mishne Torah. R. Walkin postulates that this is due to the fact that while Maimonides saw these oaths as important, he did not consider them to be legally binding as Halacha, only that they serve as “warnings that these actions would be unsuccessful.”[21]
The Three Oaths are an Aggadic Midrash, and therefore they are not Halakhically obligatory (Aggadic Midrashim, as opposed to Halachic Midrashim are not traditionally understood as a valid source for Halacha). Accordingly, Maimonides' Mishne Torah, the Arba'ah Turim, the Shulchan Aruch, and other halachic sources do not cite the Three Oaths or rule accordingly. They are not found there at all.
the Balfour Declaration, San Remo conference, United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181, and the League of Nations-issued Mandate for Palestine plan of July 24, 1922 is understood as representing permission and approval from the nations of the world. Accordingly, the Jewish people cannot be considered to have rebelled against the nations. This was the opinion of Rabbi Meir Simcha of Dvinsk regarding the Balfour Declaration.
The Three Oaths are an Aggadic Midrash, and therefore they are not Halakhically obligatory (Aggadic Midrashim, as opposed to Halachic Midrashim are not traditionally understood as a valid source for Halacha).
The author of the "Hafla'ah" maintains that the oaths only apply to those who are in the exile of Bavel, and not in other lands.
The Gra writes that the oath applies only to building the Beit Hamikdash, not to entering Eretz Yisrael.
Elsewhere in the Gemara there are other, conflicting, sources. Furthermore, the Gemara regarding the "Three Oaths" is aggada, and we do not decide halacha based on aggada.
The Gemara in Sanhedrin (98a) says that when Eretz Yisrael gives forth fruit abundantly, it is a sure sign that the redemption is coming. Eretz Yisrael, in the time of the Zionist movement, began blooming and giving forth fruits unlike any previous time since the destruction of the land. This sign of redemption showed that the oath was no longer in effect.
Rashi explains the psukim of Shir Hashirim in connection with the 3 oaths 1:5; 2:7; 3:5; 8:4 as being Israel speaking to the nations of the world (his opinion is supported by Sforno and Metzudas David)
ReplyDeleteNothing to do with oaths on Jewish people.Rashi doesn't mention it.
'O daughters of Jerusalem' might be also translated as, 'You nations in whose midst I dwell.' (Rashi)
'If you will wake or rouse the love until it pleases',
Rashi understood it as to say:
'If you will try to sway my Beloved's love for me by persuasion and incitement to abandon Him, while His love is still desirous of me',
There are lots of interpretations
therefore the ones who 'swear' by the oaths must understand that it's not an absolute. Creation of Israel proves that the oaths are no longer binding.
ReplyDeleteThe "three oaths" is a bogus and phony position against the establishment of the State. This is aggadata with no halachic rules whatsover. Rambam make no mention of these oaths and thus they are not relevant. He specifically writes that they are an allegory, or mashal in the epistle to Teiman. It's illogical to say that he meant it as halacha then omit it in Mishne Torah. The return to Eretz Yisrael is proof against it.
YERUSHALMI
those who came to Eretz Yisrael and "violated" the Three Oaths (according to the Satmar Rebbe's opinion) were saved, and those who did not make Aliyah were the ones who were murdered!
ReplyDelete___ Torat Harav Aviner
Moran Harav Henkin ZT"L
ReplyDeleteRav Henkin wrote the following in 1959 in response to the anti-Zionist position of the Satmar Rebbe and the Neturei Karta:
"I was shocked to read in Chomoteinu of Cheshvan 5719 the slanderous notion that we are required to give our lives (limsor nefesh) to frustrate and resist the efforts of the State of Israel in its struggle against those who would rise up against them. This was stated as a p'sak din based on what we learn that Israel is restricted from rebelling against the nations (Ketubot 111a). This opinion is clearly not in keeping with halacha [and which can result] in imminent dangers for millions of Jews....
"Now all the rabbis who were opposed to Zionism and the establishment of a state took up that position until the time that it was officially founded. Once the state was declared, anyone who plays into the hands of the nations of the world even where there is no imminent danger, is clearly a moseir and rodeif. ...to proclaim that anyone who aids the state is a rodeif, well such talk is the severest form of redifa.
You're naïve because your rabbis were wrong in their interpretation and it doesn't matter how mnay were there. Look at the other proofs shown on top that disagree with your rabbis. These were just as holy as your rabbis and we follow their holy mesorah as wish to follow your blind path. U could follow whoever you want but you're saying they were nothing, so you're holier than them.
ReplyDeletethe ones you call gedolim who were against Zionists were not only wrong but caused Jews to be killed . Wake up to the truth.
ReplyDeleteThe Torah hakdoshe doesnt change one iota, just because things change, Torah is nitzchios, kevodo shel hrav henkin bumkomo minuch
ReplyDeleteYou're playing dumb. You see all the rabbonim who disagree with you and u pretend they don't count as part of mesorah. Their Torah is as nitzvhius as the opposition. The Torah hakdosha allows for halacha to be interpreted as needed if it's based on Torah hakdosha. Otherwise you wouldn't see so many machlokeses in halacha. Ur way is old and stale.
ReplyDeleteWhat do u mean with your remark about Rav Henkin? he vigorously opposed Rabbi Joel with harsh words. There's more what he said about him than what's posted here. Don't touch Rav Henkin, ur too small .
ReplyDeleteZionist Flag says____________
ReplyDeleteYou guys are in the minority but make all the noise. Ur all over orthodox blogs even though it's assur for u hypocrates to be on the computer Internet, spreading ur vicious lashon hara and slander.. Most of us orthodox don't believe anything you say and ur constant reference to rabbis who were opposed to Zionism means nothing in face of the reality. U hate Eretz Yisroel just like the Spies.
From Judaism 101 ***************
************Most Jews today support the existence of the state of Israel, though not necessarily all of the policies of its government (as one would expect in any democracy). There are a small number of secular Jews who are anti-Zionist. There is also a very small group of right-wing Orthodox Jews who object to the existence of the state of Israel, maintaining that it is a sin for us to create a Jewish state when the messiah has not yet come. However, this viewpoint does not reflect the mainstream opinion of Orthodoxy. Most Orthodox Jews support the existence of the state of Israel as a homeland, even though it is not the theological state of Israel that will be brought about by the messiah.*************
You're dumb and a liar. Very few Jews were Zionists, the sinah to Yidden extend from Har Sinai, and just keep ignoring thousands of pogroms and millions of murders before Zionists. What your dumb brain doesn't get is that we're hated because we're Jews and have a relationship with G-D, not because of Zionism which is an excuse. Before that it was not accepting Jesus, or racial or something else. Idiot, the Nazis accused Jews of being in control of the system, economy and governments in the European countries. What the Zionists wanted, you idiot, is just the opposite. To get away from there because of these lies.
ReplyDeleteThis Israeli malchus was ordained by G-D and if you don't accept it you're a koifer and apikoirus. Had the frummies immigrated there they would have been the majority but still hated by the Arabs. Sinah against Jews will exist till Moshiach.
6 million Jews were murdered before the state, those who made Aliyah were saved, those that opposed it died. Millions more were murdered and chased out of countries before the Zionists. You lost your argument because Israel is a lifesaver.Millions have made aliyah and more are coming. You'r a rasha to rebel against G-D's will.The majority of Jews reject your insane lies and lashan hora.