Here is the above question and answer, loosely translated from the above pamphlet:
Question :
"We are in an unfortunate bitter situation; 3 Bochrim were kidnapped by Arabs, and the Zionist Army are doing actions to recue and free them. Are we allowed to daven that the Zionists should succeed to recue the boys?
Answer:
"G-D Forbid! We are prohibited to pray that the Rashoim should succeed, and we all must know and believe that from Evil people comes Evil. From Rashoim there cannot come any good for Jewish children, and only bad tidings and tzurois came to Klall Yisroel from them ., and they are also guilty and it is totally their fault that we are in this situation!
There you have it folks, this sect has totally cut themselves off Klall Yisroel,
I have nothing more to say!
Feel free to comment!
You have not told us anything new that we have not known,everyone knows that Satmars are a band of criminally insane jew hating bastards,these Romanian antisemitic gypsy jew haters have three weekly newspapers
ReplyDeleteDer Blatt,Der Yid, and Der Tzeitung,
and their sole purpose is to spew hatred on medinas yisroel and any jew who does not agree with their crazed hatred of the medina,
Their godfather in his medina hating manifesto 'VAYOEL MOSHE" writes that every god fearing jew must pray three times a day for the destruction and disappearance of Medinas Yisroel,because that as long as the medinas yisroel is existing Moshiach cannot and will not come,and the reason six million jews including one and a half million jewish children were gassed and burned,was because of the sin of Zionism,for wanting to go back to their god given homeland.
And here we have tens of thousands ignorant savages who actually were brainwashed in believe this ugly garbage.
I have no doubt in my mind,had the editorial writers of these three antisemitic rags lived 70 years ago during the holocaust,Hitler would have taken them as editors for his infamous Das Shturmer,Julius Streicher could have taken lessons from these bastards in pure jew hating propaganda,wouldn't even be surprised if they even would have been the chief jewish KAPO'S in helping their Nazi masters in the final solution.
these bastards including the Neturai Karta must be vomited out of klall yisroel ASAP
i am not satmar, but i was very bothered what they wrote, so i looked up that paper, and 1 thing i can say "SHAME ON YOU" Dusiznies for cuting off 1 piece of that paper and not telling the whole truth, that paper continues to write that of course we have to pray for the boys, just don't pray for the soldiers to win, cause thats like asking hasham to help the tzionim, we dont care how hasham helps the boys we just ask him to save them
ReplyDeleteto 4344jack
ReplyDeleteThe article is NOT cut off, show it to me and i'll be more than happy to print it and apologize!
But your comment is even worse than the article. You write "just don't pray for the soldiers to win, cause thats like asking hasham to help the tzionim"
My friend, it's only the "tzionim" that are searching for the bochrim, I don't see any Satmarer guys looking for them!
Let Satmar go into Gaza and Chevron and look for them, because so far the Yeshuah can only come from the IDF as the shiluchim!
You should also check your background, because any Jew that advocates NOT praying for the wellbeing of Jewish soldiers, cannot come from Jews! Only from the Eirav Rav!
To 4344jack
ReplyDeleteYou and your ilk are the scum of the earth. During a time where all Jews are united behind the kidnapped bochrim, and davening for our Jewish brothers in the Army to have success, and to have a supporting comment of an obviously nazi answer to the equally nazi question... is the lowest of the low!
Dear Dusiznies
ReplyDeleteI probably didn’t express myself clearly, and I apologize for that, let me explain!
I am not a Satmar, I belong to one of the agudah parties, but there is the mistake where everyone makes, we are against the Tzionim just as Satmar is, we just had a different approach how to fight them, not like Satmar to stand outside and protest, rather get elected into the congress and fight them from the INSIDE, you think the holy Chazon Ish, the Steipler, Harav Shach, etc. didn’t fight them all the way? (chazon ish didn’t pick up his head to look at ben Gurion at his visit)
Every erlicha Godel agreed (besides the mizrachi etc.) that the Zionist are dangers to Klal Yisruel, they build a jewish government officially not according the Torah lew, everyone knows they are here to wipe out Yidishkeit from earth, I know you not going to like this statement, but if you are a Jew you supposed to hate the government more than anything else, you see? Chazal tells us גדול המחטיאu יותר מההרגו one who make us sin is worse than one who kills us, can you swallow that?
So here is the thing! Of course we have to pray for the safe return of the boys, and of course we are praying for the soldiers as well, they are Jewish children as well תינוק שנשבה do you have any idea how the Satmar Ruv used to cry by the Israel war when soldiers died? You think we hate the soldiers? Are you crazy? We just hate the government, and that’s what that paper is writing, we are not praying for the government’s success we don’t want the success of the Israeli nation because the existent’s of that nation is against Hasham, we are just praying that no Jew should die ח"ו in this war against terrorist,
' because so far the Yeshuah can only come from the IDF as the shiluchim!'
ReplyDeletethis is kivera but its ok the rest of your blog is too atleast you are consistent. your in a box(realty) and cant see anything beyond that.GOD has a billion ways that the boys can come home
Jack, Who cares if the Chazon Ish did or didn't look at ben Gurion. He was a big tzaddik for sure but only his fans and groupies pasken like him. He was, for lack of a better word, a bit eccentric.
ReplyDeleteTo Jack and his numbers,
ReplyDeleteYou Agudists are worse than the deranged Satmars. At least people know that their shita is insane. But you guys have a veneer of being civilized, speak and write English but are the same savages in a suit and tie. You were partly responsible for the slaughter of milluions because you were against the medinah long before the war. It was Herzl who felt the pain of Jews being pogromed and it was he and others were the shliach of Hashem to push for a State..
I'm not impressed with your Hebrew font and chote and machteh es horabim is an ourageous lie. &0 years ago, a FEW Zionists were rotten and you blame ALL because the reality of Eretz Yisroel smacks you all in your miserable faces because you can't reconcile its existence with what you believe. Do us a favor and don't mentioned the Satmar RUV here. Who saved him? The ZIONISTS !!!!
I hope everybody observes that the biggest machlokes and hate mongers are the frum crowd. Then they blame chilonim for all the troubles. They look for sins in others as to why the geulah isn't here but never look at their ugly selves in the mirror. Disgusting lot.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteTo DDF
ReplyDeleteI read the complete תשובה and I stand by every word I said
To Yocheved
You are an idiot!
In tht תורה it says that אברהם אבינו saved לוט by משה רבינו the תורה writes that בתיא saved משה ׳s life
Why didn't the תורה write that הקב״ה saved them....
Obviously the רבש״ע sends שלוחים and here the IDF will be the שלוח
The Satmar Rebbe refused to thank the Zionists for saving him from the Holocaust, he said that the רבש״ע saved him,,,,, true but the שליח was Kastner who was a Zionist .... The Rebbe had no הכרת הטוב ! he learned nothing from the תורה
To 4344jack
I have a lot to answer on your naive and false answer
First : nobody was in the room when the חזון איש met Ben Gurian so we don't know if he looked at him
Second: Satmar hates Aguda, Satmar won't even learn the Daf Yoime because it's the agenda from the Aguda
Satmar is and always was a bunch of Hungarian uncivilized animals ... They chased Kloizenberger rebbe to Union City because the Kloizenberger took money from the Zionists ....
They called the present Belzer rebbe בעריל ימח שמו, they beat up the Lubavitcher when Lubavitch marched יום טוב from Crown Heights into Williamsburg
Reb Yoil knew all that and never protested
Don't get me started on Satmar
Your statement that all Gedolim were against the government is a lie and a fabrication now written by the Yeshivishi and Chasidishe history re-writers
The Belzer the Gerer the Viznitzer the kloizenberger including Rav Shach all worked with the government
Rav Eliyasiv was actually on the Zionist payroll for many years
I won't allow rewriting of history and will remove any comment that attempts to do it
To Yocheved .... Again.... You are an idiot
To Yocheved
ReplyDeleteGo back into the kitchen and make חרעמזליך
This blog is way over your head
Here's a partial list list of gedolim who were pro the establishment of Israel;
ReplyDeleteRabbis;
Kalisher, Mohiliver, Guttmacher, Alkalai, Yitzchok Nissenbaum,Teichtal, Reines ( founder of Mizrachi) Kook, and Soloveitchik who changed his earlier anti-Zionist opinion and became a pro- Zionist
The noisy anti-Zionist crowd and deletes these giants, some of whom had met and spoken to Herzl.
Dear dusizneis its about time someone finally has the courage to tell it like it is.Kol Hakovod
ReplyDeleteAnon 12;54
ReplyDeleteSo are you suggesting that the Army stay out of this? Stop Searching?
What if it was your child? Would you tell the Government, "it's ok, don't do me any favors"
I think not, you meshiginer!
Dusiznies- I agree with what you said but your title and article are misleading. The Satmar article does NOT say not to daven for the boys as you say. There is a lot of crazy stuff that they write in that article but it says explicitly that one should daven for their return. Pls correct and apologize. (BTW side point just because Gedolim worked in the gov't doesnt mean they liked it, anyone who has read Michtavim Umamarim Harav Shach will see that it is clear that he was in no way pro the gov't)
ReplyDeleteAnon 7:14- Your rhteoric against agudah is disgusting. There were many gedolim in Agudah so I would be careful the language you use against them (You have no right to talk against the Chazon ish and steipler like you did)
ReplyDeleteTo Anon 7:37
ReplyDeleteThe Satmar Question is very clear and the answer is very clear, your problem is my Headline!
I would retract if I saw ONE Satmar guy davening for the boys.
I looked at all the pictures of the Kosel, all the pictures of Boulder Stadium in Monsey and didn't see ONE Satmar guy. None of the Satmar and I repeat None of the Satmar Shuls are saying Tehillim for the succesful rescue of the boys... so I stand by my headline!
Your Statement that "just because Gedolim worked in the gov't doesnt mean they liked it, anyone who has read Michtavim Umamarim Harav Shach will see that it is clear that he was in no way pro the gov't"
I knew Rav Shach personally and he was pro-Government... one little example he flew the Israeli Flag on Yom Hatzmoat on the rooftop of the Yeshiva.
Also I had posted previously, his explicit letter to all Yeshivas, not to issue any Petur to the IDF to boys that are not learning! His Shitah was if your Torah is not "um'nosoh" then join the army..
So your statement is a blatent re-writing of history.
Rav Eliyasav was on the Rabbunate for over 25 years and received a paycheck from the Zionist government, same goes for the Tziz Eliezer who was on the payroll until he was niftar!
Dusiznies- I agree with you that satmar shuls should be saying tehillim. There is no excuse otherwise. You would no better than me what Rav Shach so I apologize for writing what I did, i must have misunderstood some statements in Michtavim Umamarim. About the boys who arent learning...I completly agree with you on that one. I thought you had said in Rav shach's name that all boys should go to the army. I do agree, though, that NON-LEARNING boys should go to the army. Sorry for any "re-writing of history".
ReplyDeleteto anon 7:40,
ReplyDeleteI didn't mean REAL gedolim, the true tzaddikim , there are many many big shots in Agudah.
While I'm at it, you boys need to watch out when they call Jews Haman and Nazis, The filthy words they used against Rav Kook zatzal is an example. In fact, your boys set the example of how to curse, harass and beat Jews. Watch out for spitting and embarrassing Jews in public Mr. Anon. When you clean house, we'll talk. When you stop the hate and machlokis, we'll talk. When you stop revising history, we''l talk. Don't lecture me. Agudah is a whore. They hate Zionism and Zionists then join in the government, use the government and give advice.
To anon 9:48
ReplyDeleteI'm not lecturing you. And certainly not defending any cursing, beating and embarrassing Jews in public. I was only commenting that you should watch the language you use against them because of the gedolim. Thank you for clarifying now I understand that you were not talking about the Gedolim who were in Agudah but about the bad people who were in Agudah, which is true. (BTW for someone who is so concerned about machlokes and hate I'm not sure calling agudah a "whore" is going to help at all, if anything it will cause more sinah is almost as bad language as Satmar uses against them)
To Jack, in ref the Chazon Ish. Here's a partial review of Dr. Brown's book about him. Dr. Brown has critics because he doesn't write like most Jewish biographers in a hagiographic way, that is a saintly way like the person is a malach, which the others make us believe.
ReplyDeleteFrom the website Daas Torah.
"It is to Brown’s credit that he has rescued the Hazon Ish from ultra-Orthodox hagiography. Brown treats his subject with the respect he deserves and with more than a little empathy. At the same time, he views him as flesh and blood, and does not refrain from disclosing moments of weakness in his life. One mark of Brown’s success is the sharpness of the Haredi response to his book. It seems that more than anything else, the ultra-Orthodox cannot forgive Brown for saying the Hazon Ish − whom they consider one of the inspirations for the creation of a “learning society” in which Haredi men learn Torah all day instead of working, regardless of their scholarly aptitude − NEVER believed that men must do nothing but study Torah, and that he was NOT opposed to army service or participation in the workforce.
While it may seem that it’s the gedolim who shaped the Haredi ethos as we know it today, the society is influenced by many more dynamics and constraints than the greats could have foreseen. The object of the hagiography, then, is to reinvent the images of the greats to suit the needs of the ultra-Orthodox ethos as it stands today. And woe is the critical scholar who reveals the gap between myth and reality."
Kudos to Dr. Brown
Ci didn't look at Ben Gurion. So what? How do you know if it's even true, or what it means? That's what's wrong with ultra Hareidim. Wow, the rabbi looked away.,that must mean something. The rabbi danced, the rabbi ate an extra apple, he blinked twice, wow. This is not how you argue for your position and certainly it's not admissable in any court.
ReplyDeleteYour all going to hell. The way you talk to and about each other is just so disgusting. And dusiznies, don't know who the hell you are but you can't make up a title just cuz the sat mar YOU know, isn't davening. I have many satmar neighbors and we're all davening tog. I'm not satmar at all and deff don't agree with everything they say/do... but you know what I don't do?? Go around bashing them! Or any sect of jews!
ReplyDeleteTo Anon 2:15
ReplyDeleteSo what Moshe Rabbeinu did to Korach was wrong?
He should have stopped bashing them?
When we see wrong, we must talk about it!
In the words of the Chofetz Chaym
"mitzvah l'farseim"
You are ver naive! And it is people like u that are holding back Moshiach! Allowing bastards to run the Jewish world.
To Anonymous 2:15 pm
ReplyDeleteSatmar wrote the book on Jew bashing. I'd like to see is an editorial in Der Goy and the other toilet paper asking for people to pray for the teens and success of IDF with Hashem's help.
Then I'd like to see at least one poster, patchke'vill hung up LEGALLY asking for people to daven, instead of the Patchke'vills attacking other Jews and obsessing over ladies' hemlines, tight bras and millions of asifas , macho'as and chamor-chumras.
Satmar, Lakewood and now ultra-fanatical Zionist rabbis need to show some compassion for fellow Jews ( may I say Jews instead of Klal Yisroel? ). Yes, this includes the IDF who are moser nefesh and risk life and limb and IDF.
the Derby en route--- to my friends the Koolitzers, Harry and Myrtle who're hosting a prayer breakfast for the teens, IDF and State of Israel, since most shuls don't make the Mishebeyrach for Israel. Shame on you, including my shul.
I was probably 45 years old when I learned Satmar has a deep hatred for
ReplyDelete"Zionists"
The book "VYoel Moshe" is full of reasons why to hate the Zionists
but
I can not believe any of it.
For ONE Jew to hate another is why the Bais Hamikdash was destroyed
and to hate a Whole Group of Jews
must be the worse Aveirah out there.
Anti-Religious Zionists entities are more or less extinct aand the paradigm has shifted to most Zionists being Shomer Shabbat.
In a world where most Zionists are
working hard to support their families and protect Jewish lives,
Most Satmar are on the dole in the USA taking Money from Section 8 , Welfare , Medicaid, Food Stamps WIC, and not intersted in working for a living.
I am no angel and not great example of a Jew, and I don't fault the Satmar for being brought up through a system that did not afford them CHOICE.
None of us are perfect, if there IS truly hate on the Satmar side of the isle it does not give everone else to hate the Satmar.
God judges us all
ReplyDeleteIt would be nice if Satmer says the same as you. "None of us are perfect" But their whole religion is based on Zionist hatred and nothing else. V'yoel Moishe, if you read it at all has to be read along with objective other books because there's a lot of untruth there.There's a lot of history with this man himself which can't be summed up quickly here, That history which goes back to his ordination as rabbe in Europe 80 years ago has been erased and revised. Why so many people including the yishivish world admire him is baffling.
Anon 6:48
ReplyDeleteI'm sure you can't responds at all to any off the torah points raised in Vayoel Moshe so instead you must bash the Satmar rebbe.
His "Torah" points have been discredited. Sure I can debate them but it's not for this post.
ReplyDeleteJust look at how many rabbonim disagree with his "Torah" points. although they do it in maybe more respectful fashion.
His 3 oaths proof from mesichte ksubos, for example, have been discredited. Those who inherently dislike Israel find excuses to bash it. Either they use the excuse of non-frum or even if they're frum , they say you're not allowed a Jewish state. The 3 oaths proof is no proof for many reason. Let's just say the unfortunate meraglim syndrome has repeated itself in our generation. remember that the meraglim were scholars and big people who gave the same reasons as the Satmar head honcho and were very very very wrong.
Why do you accept his reasoning? Why not others who oppose it? I'll answer for you. It's because you don't like Eretz Yisroel no matter which way it's sliced. Be honest.
Ok so I'm not satmer. ..so this doesn't apply to me anymore than none gebrokts, nobody's pontificating will change things and their dictates won't change anyone not of their ilk...so instead of wasting time analyzing history...agendas...etc..etc...JUST DAVEN FOR THESE BOYS!!!
ReplyDeleteTo anon 4:35
ReplyDeleteI'm not satmar and I do not hate eretz yisroel as you say. It funny how you say the 3 oaths are not a proof for many reasons but instead of giving any of them you just call anyone who holds of them (Included in that is the satmar rebbe, brisker rav, chazon ish, steipler gaon) have miraglim syndrome. I will go with those gedolim of you. Thats why I accept it.
From Eretz Yisroel Bulletin:
ReplyDeleteI asked whether our being in Israel wasn't in opposition to these Oaths, as some
Talmidei Chachamim maintained. He told me to stop speaking nonsense, and
suggested we learn the Gemara instead. He asked me to bring him the tractate
Ketubot from the bookcase. I returned with an old Vilna Shas, which opened to the
exact page. He carefully explained the meaning of Not to go up like a wall, one of
the oaths. The wall had been broken down by the Balfour Proclamation, he said, on
the part of the gentile nations themselves. (See the letter of the Ohr Somayach,
printed in HaTekufah HaGedolah, Pg.175) We hadn't returned to Israel against the
will of the nations of the world, for they had granted us permission, in the BaIfour
Proclamation, in the League of Nations, and in the United Nations, before the
establishment of the State.
"The argument of the Shevuot (Oaths) is a matter without any substance," he said.
"The first oath is, Not to rebel against the nations of the world. There was no
rebellion or revolution in our coming back to Israel. We came here with permission.
("And in the matter of rebelling against the nations of the world, when we were
forced to remove British rule from here, this wasn't a rebellion against them, since
they weren't legally ruling in our Land. Rather they were a temporary mandate
established to prepare the way for Israeli rule in our Land, in accordance with the
decision of the League of Nations...and when they fulfilled their mission, the time
came for them to depart from here." L'Netivot Yisrael, Part 2, 115. HaRav Tzvi
Yehuda HaKohen Kook)
Two generations ago, the British received a mandate
(San Remo) to temporarily rule here, on our behalf. The
nations of the world agreed that this Land belongs to
us, and they decided that another nation would
temporarily assist us.
The British were here through our rightful claim to the Land, but afterwards, they
forgot this, and wanted to rule here instead. There wasn't a rebellion against them.
They were not ruling here legally! They distorted their mission to temporarily rule in
our stead."
"The second oath is, Not to hasten the End. We don't hasten the End - the End
hastens us! The Master of the House is insistent. (Avot, 2:20) First of all, the
Gemara does not say, not to hasten the End, but, rather, Not to push the End away.
(Rashi explains, By your sins). And only as a secondary understanding, Rashi adds
that we are not to make exaggerated petitions over the End. We are not supposed
to be 'nudniks' and clamor, 'Redeem us! Redeem us! Redeem us!' without end. The
meaning here is that we are not to hasten the End of the exile through spiritual
means. It is not talking about building the Land of Israel."
"The third oath is, Not to go up to Israel like a wall. This is a figurative expression.
What is a wall? The Iron barrier which separates Israel from their Father in heaven
This is the situation of Galut, and anything which prevents the immigration to
Israel. The wall is gentile rule over the Land. Who raised it up? The Master of the
Universe. Therefore, The mouth which forbade is the mouth which makes it
permitted.( Mishna, Ketubot 16ª) Today, there isn't a wall. The Balfour Proclamation
isn't a coincidental thing, but the work of the Causer of Causes, of the Master of the
World. Hashem raised up the wall of gentile rule over our Land, and Hashem broke
it down. This situation is similar to a man who takes an oath that he will not enter a
house. When the house collapses, he doesn't need to disavow the oath. (Yoreh
Deah, 216:6, beginning, "There are those who say...")
…The Rabbi of Ostrovtza exclaimed, 'What is
going on here?! Hashem sent His holy
children to build the Holy Land, and here
people condemn them!”
(From Sefer Torat Eretz Yisrael)
The vows no longer apply since the gentiles violated their part (by such actions as the Roman persecutions, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Nazi Holocaust). The Balfour declaration of 1917 and the United Nations vote of 1948 are also regarded as having given permission to the Jews to reestablish the state by the non-Jewish rulers of the area. Once this permission was granted it could not be revoked. It should also be noted that these oaths are only mentioned as a side point in one place in a discussion in the Gemoroh and as the viewpoint of an individual. Further, Talmudic texts come in two flavors: halachah (religious law) and aggadah (other topics, primarily ethics, values, philosopy and mysticism). The oaths are mentioned within an aggadic discussion. Yet there is a halachah that one ought to try to settle and gain sovereignty over Israel. There is little precedent for taking an aggadic statement over a halachic ruling. So, many people feel that these oaths do not apply in any case.
ReplyDeleteto anonymous 5:05
ReplyDeleteThere are gedolim who don't agree with those you mentioned. The reality and miracles of Eretz Yisroel contradict the psak of your esteemed rabbonim.
Your logic is like arguing that we should for example light Chanuka candles like the Bes Shammai, or pasken like tannoim and amoroim who differ from the accepted psak. It doesn't detract from their gadlus but we just don't pasken that way.
If my rav paskens that my chicken is kosher, it's not oysgehalten that you should come and say that your rav paskens that it's treif. Eilu veleilu divrei Elokim chaim, but now wee that there is an Eretz Yisroel B'H and the old arguments aren't in synch anymore. Your side has to get your heads out of the sand and face reality once and for all.