This is what I have been screaming about for years, that the Gedoilim especially the Litvaks are totally disconnected from the rest of Klall Yisrael. Beyond the 4 walls of their Bais Ha'Medrish they are clueless about the rest of their brethren.
In Israel, what happened on October 7 has absolutely no "shaichis" to them, in fact I had a conversation with one of the signatories of the above letter, months after the tragedy, and this Rav looked bewildered when I mentioned to him that there were Hatzalah members that were murdered on Oct 7! He asked me in all earnest "Why would Hatzalah drive towards Gaza on Simchas Torah?"
Personally, I am not one of those that run to these type of Slichos, but I admit that I did go once to a Carlbach Slichos on the upper West Side and actually found it inspiring.
When I was a child and then a teenager I always davened in Chassidishe Shtiblich, but, I remember that I walked into Rav Gustman's Shul on Eastern Parkway on a Shabbos, and was astonished that they didn't sing Keil Adon, but just said it as if it was Ashrei! Of course years later, I davened in the MIR and Bais Hatalmid and their Shabbos davening was like the weekdays, there was absolutely no difference. They even had a 14 year old boy as the Shliach Tzibber who probably didn't know what the term "nusach" meant, and if I had to guess, I would venture to say that he never found out!
These "gedoilim" should thank G-d, that after 3,500 years, there are Jews going to Selichos and davening! We all are inspired by different things, and most of the Baalei Teshuva and Giyorim that I met, told me that they were inspired by the singing in the davening!
When I was growing up, people went to hear Chazzonim, now they can't stand chazzonim, and so, are now doing musical Selichos..... Kol Hakovod!
I'm pretty sure that the Avoda in the Bais Hamikdash were the Leviim singing and playing their instruments including Shabbos!
The letter was signed by leading senior rabbis, including Slabodka Rosh Yeshivos Rabbi Dov Landau and Rabbi Moshe Hillel Hirsch, and was issued under the evocative heading, “We Tremble and Shudder at the Day of Your Coming.”
The rabbis condemned what they described as an inappropriate trend that has spread in recent years: organizing large-scale “Selichot events” featuring live musical performances.
“Recently, an inappropriate phenomenon has begun in which ‘Selichot events’ are held with musical instruments,” the rabbis wrote. “These Selichot events contradict the very essence of the days of Selichot, which the Sages instituted as a time for repentance, remorse and soul-searching, to purify and sanctify oneself in preparation for the approaching Days of Judgment, and to merit being inscribed and sealed for a good and peaceful life.”
The rabbis cautioned against transforming the solemn religious observance into an entertainment event. “God forbid that a lofty and sacred concept instituted by our Sages should be turned into an event of recreation and a musical performance,” they wrote, adding that such gatherings can also involve “serious breaches of religious standards of holiness and modesty.”
The letter calls on members of the public not to attend such events and urges community leaders to take a clear stand. “We therefore join in strengthening the calls issued by leading rabbis, both those who have passed away and those who are still with us, that people should, God forbid, not participate in such events,” the letter states.
The rabbis also addressed municipal and political officials, calling on them not to provide financial or logistical support for the gatherings. “[There should be] no support or funding for these events by public authorities, in any form,” they wrote.
The letter further draws a distinction regarding the use of musical instruments in synagogues and study halls, which the rabbis say should remain places dedicated to prayer and Torah study. “Certainly, such events should not be held in the sanctuaries of God, the synagogues and houses of study,” they wrote. “Likewise, prayers and the recitation of Hallel should not be conducted with musical instruments.”
The rabbis concluded their letter with a prayer that the community would remain faithful to its religious traditions and the practices handed down by previous generations.
“May the Almighty raise us ever higher, so that we may cleave to the tradition of our fathers, and may He inscribe and seal us for a good life,” they wrote.
I know some people like to beat up on Litvaks, blame things on them, but let's have some facts.
ReplyDeleteRav Hirsch has Belzer roots - see
https://worldofbelz.org/reb-moshe-hillel-hirsch-shlita-visits-the-belzer-rebbe-shlita/
Rav Dov Landau too.
So maybe you should blame Belz for not having guitar selichos???
I am taake surprised that Rav Hirsch signed this, but he has become radicalized lately.
DeleteBelz may not have a Guitar Slichos, but they didn't sign the letter!
You are conflating different things.
ReplyDeleteWhich normative Chasidus has guitar selichos? Bobov, Belz, Gur, Satmar, Amshinov, Alexander, Vizhnitz...? Even your Lubavitch friends don't.
4:28
DeleteThey didn't sign the letter.
Who cares? Thousands of the chasidus you mentioned come to guitar slichos all over the world , the established chassidus don't inspire anymore
DeleteTo 4,28
DeleteBut don't they all play and dance rock goy music at holy weddings?
"I walked into Rav Gustman's Shul on Eastern Parkway on a Shabbos, and was astonished that they didn't sing Keil Adon, but just said it as if it was Ashrei! Of course years later, I davened in the MIR and Bais Hatalmid and their Shabbos davening was like the weekdays, there was absolutely no difference"
ReplyDeleteThanks DIN for sharing such personal gems!
The reason the Litvaks didn't sing then I believe was in order to concentrate on the words, peirush hamilim. When people get into singing a lot, let's be honest, often they are concentrating on and enjoying the song, the music, and they may not even know what the words mean, or they are at least mesiach daas from them. The music becomes the ikar and the words the tafeil (ch"v), a hook to hang the music on. That is not right, it should be the opposite. So some Litvaks went to the other extreme, and just did the words without the music.
Only you're mesiach das. Leviim sang with instruments to tehillim shel yom among other prayers.
Delete"When I was a child and then a teenager I always davened in Chassidishe Shtiblich, but, I remember that I walked into Rav Gustman's Shul on Eastern Parkway on a Shabbos, and was astonished that they didn't sing Keil Adon, but just said it as if it was Ashrei! Of course years later, I davened in the MIR and Bais Hatalmid and their Shabbos davening was like the weekdays, there was absolutely no difference. "
ReplyDeleteWhen is DIN's autobiography coming out???
How is Keil Adon done there? I have a hunch like the Litvish DIN just blasted. If so, will DIN blast Lubavitch?
ReplyDeleteNot holding my breath.
Chabad didn't sign the letter
DeleteYou keep putting on display your Hateful Lies & Kefira. You know as it states in this kol korei that they didn’t invent any issur but are reinforcing from frierdik gedolim. What’s with your sudden flip out at Litvaks anyway? You didn’t make a peep days ago when the Heimishe Eidah repeated this same issur bsheim the Chasam Soifer. And you are from within like the goyishe anti-Semites who lump all Jews together for twisted collective “guilt”. For a while you’ve been Barking that NK is Satmar is Peleg is Black Hatters. Now you hyperventilate a bizarre Sheker that Bais Hatalmud Bensonhurst is the Mir Ocean Parkway. All knowledgeable yeshivaleit know its ainoi dimyon Bais Hatalmud Shabbos davenen to the Mir even though they were both in Lita-Shangchai. And when it comes to Yomim Noiraim the Mir OP is next level with inspiring niggunim as many outsiders have attested to. You are sick! It’s none of your business regardless if Bais Hatalmud isn’t noiheg to zing. No one is forced to daven there. And a tzebisenner Greppsing Tumah baMikdoshnik vee eich is not welcome there
ReplyDeleteShtick tinofes 5:19
Delete"frierdicke Gedoilim?" LOL!!!! Ha Ha!
First of all
I didn't address the "Heimishe Eidah when they repeated this same issur bsheim the Chasam Soifer.!
Because they have no idea what the hell they are blabbering about, and they are a bunch of amaratzim like you!
The Issur of the Chasam Sofer was for the Reform Shuls in Germany that introduced the Organ (used in the Churches) on Shabbos!
These Selichos Musical Davening, is not on Shabbos and its not an organ!
This Kok Korah was written by a Kalter Litvack who probably doesn't even possess a human heart, and this "kill-joy" shoved this kol korah under the noses of these clueless Gedoilim, and so they signed it!
The davening in both the MIR and Bais Hatalmud on a shabbos was like a davening that you would hear in the Shomer Shabbos Shull on 13th Avenue on a regular Wednesday! And you are right that "no one is forced to daven there (thank G-d) but no one is forced to go to these musical Selichos either, so why are they bothering to sign this piece of trash that no one is going to listen to, and not one will change their mind?
Fool! The gedolim have every right to extend organs in Germany to Carlebachian hoilelus in der vochens. R’ Aron Kotler warned his guitar will be the end of him. That was before all his groping women & top secret Shvartza mistress
Delete5:46
DeleteDoesn't the Kol Korah explicitly say that they are not being "mechadeish anything?"
Now you are saying that they have "every right to extend organs in Germany to Carlebachian hoilelus in der vochens. "
So you are saying that the Kol Korah is a lie!
I agree with you!
R' Aron Kotler never said that, someone made that up and you are repeating 'shittim and havalim"
You should repeat Genmarras like you repeat these fantasies!
5,46, you're a murderer, rechilus criminal and liar. You learnred nothing from your gedolim. Loshon hara is the worst sin especially if you don't have facts. You're the bottom of a toilet bowl.
DeleteYou still didn't answer why chasidim play goy rock music and goy tunes to Torah words at holy weddings.
DeleteRav Dov Lando is Ben achar Ben from Strikover Rebbe
ReplyDelete5:21
DeleteI am a Ben acher Ben from Yaakov Aveenu
So then why all the Midas Eisav of trying to bite the necks of Charedim?
DeleteBow Wow 5:32
Delete"bite the necks of Chardeim?"
I didn't put out this hateful Kol Korah, all I did was post it and I'm "biting them"
They should stick to protests and beating up other Jews; they are very good at that!
Dog catcher, when will those who called for violent riots in which 4 bucharim died be brought to justice?
DeleteRav Gustman is the mesorah of R’ Chaim Ozer. There is no boundary of human sifrei Torah whom DIN stoops to attack
ReplyDelete5:41
DeleteI attacked Rav Gustman??
This is exactly why I have a blog, to point out the craziness of the Yeshivishe ama-ratzim and liars!
I davened in his shul for a Shabbos Shachris and this is what I observed. Where does it say that I attacked him?
In fact I had a childhood friend who had his Bar-Mitzvah in Rav Gustman's shul and his father invited R Ben-Zion Shenker to daven for the amud, and R Ben-Zion had no idea that a Jewish Shul would have a minhag not to sing a single tune on Shabbos and he went ahead and sang practically every kapital, everyone enjoyed it including Rav Gustman!
Someone who DIN probably knows from old Monsey was mayid he was there when Rav Kotler warned about Carlebach mit zein guitar. That’s why he personally wouldn’t allow any Carlebach niggun when he made chassunos
ReplyDeleteWhat did they play at Rav Malkiel's two weddings?
DeleteBut I think it’s safe to assume none of the Noitzri niggunim preferred by uncircumcised Ariel Meshumod Hans ben Teddy Herzl who was waffling between Catholic & Protestant
Delete6:18
DeleteAre you talking about the founder of Kiryas Yoel Monroe Uganda?
or
Are you talking about Kiryas New Square Uganda in Spring Valley
or
perhaps Blooming Grove Uganda?
The Zechus of Binyomin Zev Herzl z"l is so great for laying the groundwork for a home to the majority of the Jewish people! A home that has the most Gedoilei Yisrael living there has more Moisdois HaTorah than anywhere in the entire world. A home that welcomes everyone and makes sure there are no Jewish refugees anywhere in the entire world!
So interesting that the Holy Rebbes of Satmar and Skver stole Herzl's Uganda idea and actually implemented it and now curse him!
Herzl did tshuvah, a Torah concept you don't believe.Be careful when writing about children who became meshumads because there's a long list of rabbis' offspring who did the same. Should we mention them?
DeleteDIN: "The davening in both the MIR and Bais Hatalmud on a shabbos was like a davening that you would hear in the Shomer Shabbos Shull on 13th Avenue on a regular Wednesday!"
ReplyDeleteNo! Way off!
A real Litvish-Yeshivish davening is deliberate, measured, thoughtful, especially on Shabbos...not zooming!
"To 4,28
ReplyDeleteBut don't they all play and dance rock goy music at holy weddings?
September 1, 2026 at 5:40 PM"
No, not all. There are hardcore believers, whether Hasidic sects or others, that reject the new style(s).
The only thing “backfiring” is the flatulence bursting out of multiple of your orifices. Normally this would be a “don’t hold your breath moment” but that’s not advisable for the sake of kavod habriyos
ReplyDeleteIn everything there is a balance. Yes, the ideal Selichos is a room full of men shaking and trembling as they confess before God. Not everyone can get into that. A muscial selichos that creates a positive feeling in a person also has benefit but I've seen Selichos videos where it seems the performance is the point, not the selichos themselves and that's also going too far.
ReplyDeleteThe Reform Jews are embarrassed that their hero Obama has a Jihadi name so they make sure to always call him “Barry” instead of Barack Hussein. So too DIN is desperate to cover up in front of Charedim that Thee-Odor Herzl had ZERO shaychus to Torah so he always makes sure to ploppel that he’s kaviyochel Kvoid Kudshas “Binyomin Zev”. You can fool some of the people some of the time
ReplyDelete9:30
DeleteBinyamin Zev Herzl z"l has the great zchus of having laid the groundwork of making the prophecies come to fruition in our lifetime, and providing a home for the majority of the Jewish people.
He may not have had any "shaychis to Torah" but he made Torah possible in the State of Israel, which is now the largest makom Torah in the entire world.
Regardless of the "kafie tov" of the Yeshivash/Charedie world, they live in Herzl's country and every time they utter a syllable of Torah, Binyomin Zev Herzl z"l gets credit
What an idiot you are, Deranged Insane Nutjob! They're not talking to secular or BTs who don't know what Davening is or how to Daven with the proper respect,; they are talking to Bnei Torah who understand what davening is, and it's to remind them that Selichos are a preparation for the Yom Hadin and should be Davened with a seriuosness. Musical accompaniment is good for a Kumzits and may be inspiring, but leave it out of Shul. Davening, especially Selichos, is not a concert.
ReplyDeleteBut honestly, I wouldn't expect any better from a Kares-chaser like you who runs to dance on Har Habayis. If the Mitzvah to ascend would be to fear the Makom Hamikdash, something virtually no one who ascends - especially you - does, then it makes sense you think of Davening and Selichos like one big concert.
First of all the next time you are disrespectful to me or my blog, I will not post your comment!
DeleteFinal Warning!
You are saying that this Kol Korah is being addressed "to Bnei-Torah" ????
So you basically admitting that the Gedoilim that signed that Kol Korah believe that the Bnei-Torah are a bunch of disrespectful hooligans!
which I agree!
You are also disrespectful of the Rambam, the mechaber of Mishna Torah stating that he, the Rambam, was " a Kares-chaser who runs to dance on Har Habayis."
Last time I checked the Leviim played instruments and sang on the Har Habayis!
They're not talking to secular or BTs who don't know what Davening is or how to Daven with the proper respect,; they are talking to Bnei Torah who understand what davening is
DeleteGet off from the high-horse! How dare you belittling someone else's tefillah? The heck you are? Sinas Chinam? What is it to us?
How about saying outright that only you and your messed-up "Bnei Torah" chevrah are Jews and the rest of us Am Yisrael are just some goyim?
Writing this as someone who never went any of these musical shlichot groups and as a charedi.
Yoh don't like slichos concerts that inspire thousands but you're on the obscene internet crapping filth, lies, hate all day. How many perverted ad images have you seen today? I'm in a slichos music group for several years and the finest yiden with heart come and daven, it's beautiful.
DeleteOur glorious nigunim are so wonderful that they’ve made it into Christian Church services:
ReplyDeletehttps://youtu.be/ia1cpgCEKrY?si=ouWH2NnmZQvm6_jK
No you don't understand anything you might find even a speck of enjoyment is avodah Zara, davening is supposed to be suffering!
ReplyDelete