I doubt the Agudah will ever hold an open Q&A again. The answers given by our Torah leaders were filled with double talk, evasiveness, and in some cases statements that were simply untrue (I’ll address those separately in a different post).
The most surprising moment came right at the beginning. Rabbi Uriel Deutsch, Rav of the Forest Park Shul in Lakewood, responded to the question by saying that the question isn’t really the question—and then proceeded to reframe it into something entirely different.
The actual question was:
“How are people supposed to reconcile the following: the very same leaders who speak strongly against gashmius—even in its minor forms—are seen attending extremely lavish events, perhaps because supporters pressure them to attend. Many feel this is a busha. How do we explain this contradiction?”
A fair question. Now listen to the convoluted answer.
Before anything, Rav Deutsch warns that no one should take his words out of context or extract soundbites. Fine. The video above contains the full exchange.
Then he says:
“Whenever we discuss gashmius, we always talk about someone else’s gashmius. It’s never about my own. It’s about why I feel pressured by someone else’s gashmius… The question is about how I should make decisions, not about what someone else does…”
Does anyone understand what this has to do with the question? How does this explain why Gedolim attend the very events they publicly condemn?
At 5:53 he adds:
“When we see our Rabbanim seemingly attending a simcha whose level of extravagance is inconsistent with the message… what does that have to do with me?”
“Seemingly”? It’s not “seemingly”—it happened. Everyone saw the videos. They went viral.
And what does he mean by “What does that have to do with me?” If our Torah leaders attend these events, doesn’t that send a message to our children that the leaders themselves don’t take their own warnings seriously?
But it didn’t end there. Rav Deutsch then claims that the question itself is “not really the question,” and reframes it into something entirely different—something that conveniently fits his answer.
Rav Yosef Elefant’s turn
Rav Elefant begins by saying the question is a “good one,” but then claims it was “kidnapped” by a micro‑question of whether a Rosh Yeshiva should attend weddings by x or y.
He then launches into a strong condemnation of luxury and gashmius—ironically making the original question even stronger.
He later calls the question of “who went to whose wedding” absurd and “not important,” while continuing to emphasize how destructive luxury is. The contradictions pile up.
Now he insults and belittles the one who asked the "good question" and tells him that the question is "absurd" and "not important"
Rav Shlomo Gottesman’s challenge
At 17:42 he asks:
“If a Rosh Yeshiva publicly refused to attend an over‑the‑top simcha because it contradicts the values he teaches—would that be beneficial? Would that be a Kiddush Hashem? And if yes, why isn’t it incumbent to do so?”
Rav Elefant responds:
“The action of a Rosh Yeshiva going to a one‑time event has no relevance and means nothing.”
Then he circles back to condemning luxury again, and repeats that the topic is being “kidnapped.”
Rav Hissinger adds:
At 19:40 he notes that the real issue is that Roshei Yeshiva attending these events puts the baalei simcha on a pedestal. Perhaps that is the core problem.
He then asks whether this relates to the idea of “Rebbe mechabeid ashirim.”
Rav Deutsch’s explanation
At 21:00 Rav Deutsch explains that if Hashem gave someone wealth, it must be because they have a zechus, and that even people with serious flaws can be conduits for supporting Torah. He cites sources to support this.
He then suggests:
“Imagine what those simchos would look like if the Roshei Yeshiva weren’t there.”
My conclusion
Why not simply say the truth? Why dodge the question? Why twist it into something else?
The honest answer is simple:
Roshei Yeshiva attend these events because of money. The Benjamins! כסף יענה את הכל.

First, I'm amazed they did vet the questions so they could give softball answers and smile with satisfaction. They actually took a risk.
ReplyDeleteSecond, the word "seemingly" was invented for the Chareidi leadership. They "seemingly" attend functions. They "seemingly" make up stuff to justify their positions. They "seemingly" run cover for paedophiles and other abusers. But it's only "seemingly" and if you were actually smart, you'd see the situation the way it really is!
4:28 Haters will always hate. Yup
DeleteHaters will always hate. The DIN author did EXACTLY what Rabbi Deutsch began with. The request of the panelists - both who are tier 1 young Talmidei Chachomim who deal with more people in a week then we do in a lifetime - was to NOT use sound bytes and that's exactly what you did. Referencing specific moments with the time mark to try to prove your point. The reality is if you listen well to the session in its entirety you will hear masterpieces from both Rabbonim who clearly and objectively answered each question. Your problem is you can't handle the truth so it's much easier to blog and knock.
ReplyDelete4:28
DeleteI posted the entire video, Rav Deutsch didn't want soundbites because his answer was a bunch of double talk that really didn't address the question, knowing that, he said that "was not the question" and said that the question was really about Gashmius, but that was NOT the question. Every one in the audience agreed that over the top events have no place in Chardeie Judaism, so they wanted to know that id that is the case why are the Gedoilim flying in luxury over the entire world and then condemning that?
What "masterpieces?"
You must be a very shallow guy to consider anything they said on this topic as a "masterpiece."
This was a disaster!
They couldn't answer the simplest of questions!
He answered the question beautifully. You just can't hear it since it doesn't fit your script.
DeleteSuch an uproar over a wedding in Morocco where only 2 Roshei Yeshiva went to. One was from Lakewood since they benefit with million and millions of dollars a year from their benefactor and the other from Torah Vodaas where the benefactors father was a Rebbi for over 50 years. BH our leaders know how to show some Hakoras Hatov even when it creates questions. Our mission is to do the right thing and not worry about the DINs of the world.
8:39
Delete"He answered the question beautifully"
The question was very simple, and his answer was that, "That is not the question." In what planet is that "beautiful?
Even a child of 5 would laugh at that "answer."
Your comment should have been his answer, but that is not what he answered!
And your answer is the issue and the underlying problem.
A R"Y before he condemns others,, should first ask himself, "Would I or even should I attend an over-the-top event when the optics are terrible!"
This is what is called "Maris Eyen"
This is not Hakoras Hatoiv this is what is called "chanifah"
Only Yeshivishe sheep would turn around and see how their R"Y is publicly having a grand time in Morocco when he keeps condemning it!
Both Rav Deutsch and Rav Elefant said that this type of luxurious events is over the top and should be publicly condemned, and that children can see this as hypocrisy! They don't see this as "Hakoras Hatoiv"
Hakoras Hatoiv would have been for R Malkiel Kotler to have told Scheiner, "I cannot attend such a Simcha because of the optics," and that would have been it!
That is exactly why the question was so strong and remains unanswered!
If your "mission is to do the right thing: then do it! This was not the right thing to do and the audience at the Yarchei Kallah agrees with me, obviously!
Most of the Charedi world do not agree with the thoughts of Rabbi Deutsch at this forum where he had to stick to the Agudah script. The Agudah micromanaged the gashmiyus issue the most due to recent criticism of those running to Louie’s shindig.
ReplyDeleteBut the point that DIN purposely glosses over is that the next topic was excellently addressed by Rabbi Elefant - which pulls the rug out from under the whole premise of DIN’s blog. The whole point of Zionism was to change the face of Judaism kaviyochel. The Chilonim were building a springboard for decades to be able to gang up on bnei Torah & they pounced when the Gaza war came along. All of their kvetching is not really about the IDF ranks, whether or not they’re actually thin. It’s because they’re itching to abolish the Torah way of life. And as far as Charedi opposite Dati Leumi. The Dati Leumi made the decision that it’s more important to display their Zionist bonafides no matter what the cost, even if their children go off the Derech due to IDF dangerous influences. That will never be acceptable to Charedim. Dati Leumi are making a grave error.
Aguda 5:50
DeleteIf you read my headline to this Q&A disaster, you would have seen that I wrote
"PART 1"
believe you me that I will tackle the other topic as well!
But to your point that
'The whole point of Zionism was to change the face of Judaism kaviyochel."
is really nothing point, and it just regurgitates the Yeshivishe outdated talking points.
The fight with Zionism, as the late Rav Wein said many times, was over 75 years ago!
We now have a beautiful country built by those very Zionists that these American Rabbis condemn in Israel, no less; it is the largest Makom Torah in the entire world, in fact there is more Torah learned in this Zionist State than at any time in Jewish history. There are more Moisdois Ha'Torah in Israel than anywhere on earth, and the Zionist entity are now the biggest donors to Torah, having granted Moisdois Ha'Torah just last month 1 billion shekel!
Your Statement that:
"They’re itching to abolish the Torah way of life" is an outrageous lie."
I live in Israel, and I never seen anyone threatening or stopping anyone learning Torah!
Where did you see they want to "abolish torah" because they want them, to enlist???
Then, according to your logic, the Shoiftim and Dovid Hamelech also "wanted to abolish Torah" because they drafted everyone, in Shiras Devorah you see that even Shevet Yissacher fought alongside, and the Leviim were not exempt in a Milchemes Mitzvah!
Moshe Rabbeinu gave exemptions for not serving but learning Torah wasn't one of them! If you will answer me that those serving were all tzadiikim, then we should draft all the tzaddikim in Ponovitz, Brisk and Mir !
As far as "Dati Leumi boys going off the derech," that is also a bald-faced lie as we now know for a fact that Charedim are going off the derech in greater numbers than any other group, and they never enlisted!
What about the tens of thousands of Charedim in Williamsburg, Monroe, Monsey and Lakewood that have already left the frum world. There is a WhatsApp group in Lakewood numbering in the thousands of Yeshivish Guys that are secretly OTD, but because of family, outwardly "practice" frumkeit!
Again DIN you missed the point. The draft has nothing to do with saving lives or fighting in an army. It's all politics. For politics we don't need to enlist our boys learning. For safety? Thats a whole different story but this is all about politics. So let's be real and stop your chareidi hatred.
DeleteAlso, if you guys there are so rich and supportive why is every minyan in every Shul in America bustling non stop with so many Israeli collectors one after the other? Why can't you guys take care of your own?
There's an old essay on Cross Current that explains this comment. Back in the 1910's and 20's Zionism was in competition with Torah Judaism, sure. They really thought that the return to Israel meant Judaism would evolve into a secular national Judaism. They really did push back against the Chareidim and try to establish a non-Torah society run by Jews.
DeleteBut here's the point - IT WAS 100 years ago. The Zionists moved on. Today they spend billions supporting the yeshivos who spit on them in return. The majority of Israeli Jews are either religious or traditional with strong feeling of affinity. Religious Jews function at all levels of society without fear of discrimination.
And for the Chareidim it's still 1920! Back in 1920 if a girl walked by Chareidim in a skimpy outfit, chances are it was to antagonize them. Today it's just because it's hot but the Chareidi response is "See! She's trying to upset us! She thinks about nothing else all day!" They haven't moved on and the lies they tell themselves are ruining people's appreciation of Torah.
I agree with you often but what’s this about a “secret WhatsApp group in Lakewood “. That sounds like a similar argument to a secret plan by zionists today to assimilate the chareidim
Delete8:35
DeleteI missed the point?
"The draft has nothing to do with saving lives or fighting in an army. It's all politics"
It's obvious that you live in the comfort of Chutz Le'aaretz and not in EY where for two years Jewish soldiers in uniform were dying, leaving behind parents, siblings, wives and children!
I live in Ramat Beit Shemesh Alef where the majority of the residents are all Shomet Torah Umitzvois and we had if I remember correctly over 18 our best and finest murdered al Kiddush Hahem!
Israel was in a war of survival, for you to say that this is "politics" is insanity!
Your comment:
"why is every minyan in every Shul in America bustling non stop with so many Israeli collectors one after the other? Why can't you guys take care of your own?"
I say don't give them a dime, let them enlist, and then they could work legally and be productive citizens! You are enabling a bunch of useless parasites!
9:11
DeleteDid say a "secret WhatsApp group" When did I say "secret"
I said they are "secretly" OTD!
One of the guys on that group says that he is a Rav in a Shul in Lakewood and he is trying to find a way to quit but his own family doesn't know. I'm not saying that this is genuine, I don't know, but I was able to get on that group,
and if you try hard enough, you can probably get on too!
My point is that Teenagers go off the Derech without ever having enlisted!
YOU 2 PEOPLE ARE THE MOST SCANDALOUS (Din & Garnel)
ReplyDeleteIf you didn't see that Torahanytime video, you'd be excused.
The highlight was where Rabbi Deutsch & Elefant clearly explained the DRAFT issue, which is FACT and refutes your stupidity regarding the whole topic.
What did you do?
You actually saw the video, but chose a different section which no-one cares about.
Go back to your igloo - Jew hater
6:02
DeleteChardeim when they have nothing to answer, call those who make sense "Jew Haters." We are not intimidated by your nicknames at all, and if you re-read your comment, you can clearly see who is the "Jew Hater"
This segment (I posted in the Headline...Part1) was on the very first question, and they didn't answer it but instead evaded the answer!
They couldn't really explain why Roshei Yeshivas fly first class, and in private planes all over the world, yet they condemn these very actions if a private person did just that
. Why did many R"Y fly to Morocco to attend an over-the-top wedding?
That was question #1 and we didn't hear an answer! It went downhill after that!
You, yourself, didn't address my post; instead, you chose to talk about an entirely different question, which I didn't address!
There will be a part 2, where the panelists actually lied outright!
DIN You already branded them before checking out any videos.
DeleteThe panelists owe you NOTHING. Keep on hating!
I hate those who use the Torah as an excuse to maintain a selfish, ungrateful lifestyle.
Delete6:02
DeleteYou are right that the "panelists owe me nothing," but they do owe something to the vast audience that attended that paid thousands of $$$$, and they didn't answer the question!
RE R Deutsch's saying its such a complicated problem---- everything the "gedolim" say about my lifestyle is pashat and so simple to decide, when the spotlight is on his class, its always super complicated and hard to pasken and deserving of such "sensitivity". What a hypocrit
ReplyDeleteI agree with DIN on this one and I rarely agree with DIN, this has always been a thorn in the frum community where when it comes to money all our torah and kannuis and all these rabbis seem to be very wishy washy when dealing with the rich powerful yidden. we know from kamza bar kamza that the rabonim were scared to stand up to a big GVIR. This is the root of our problem as the rabomim seem to be scared to tell off a very rich bal habos except someone like rav chaim kanievsky or reb moshe , who couldnt be bought for money. we all feel it in the community that rich people with money can do whatever they want . on the other hand I do understand these rabonim as if they speak out or make a statement innocent people will suffer that these rich people support? but is that what the torah wants?is this MOSHE EMES I doubt it, similar to reasons why more powerful people and companies are afraid to criticize trump lol because trump will retialiate and cause damage.
ReplyDeleteRav Deutsch at at 21:38 - 24:34 addressed it as you wanted, saying "it's about the benjamins" just he's not crass like you, and not a hater like you.
ReplyDeleteWhen he says "it's not the question" he's not misunderstanding or reinterpreting, he's correcting.
As you said, everyone there agreed that over the top gashmiyus is wrong, so no one there thinks that a r"y attending that party is approves of it.
It's not hard to explain to yourself or to your kids, why they're attending, so the question has an undertone of the am ha'aretz publicly criticizing the talmid chochom. (All of a sudden an American agudist wakes up and wants rabbonim to make macha'ahs!)
So Rav Deutsch says 'if you're concerned about gashmiyus, this is not the question [you should be asking] instead the question [you should be asking] is... and the answer is...'
But DIN you harp on the literalism because your hatred blinds you to normal conversational comprehension.
Going back to understanding why the r"y attended. Obviously it's because he respects tremendously the good he's done and continues to do ("benjamins" to you, both donated and raised) and feels that recognizing it is important.
Does it mean that the R"Y approves of the party? No, obviously not. And not even the gvir himself thinks he does; he admitted it was a circus.
If it bothers you that R"Y have to lower themselves this way to raise funds for Torah, and the elbon hatorah hurts you, Rav Deutsch gave some hashkafic background at 21:38 as noted above.
9:05
DeleteListen buddy! You can cover all you want!
I am not stupid, I listened to his "answer" and he evaded the question and said "that is NOT the question" later when Rabbi Hissiger and Rav Gottesman put his feet to the fire he tried saying that it was all because of $$$$!
You write:
"When he says "it's not the question, ' he's not misunderstanding or reinterpreting, he's correcting.""
There is nothing to "correct" the question was very simple!
Only an imbecile would need "correction" of that question!
You say:
"So Rav Deutsch says 'if you're concerned about gashmiyus, this is not the question [you should be asking] instead the question [you should be asking] is... and the answer is...'"
Everyone in the audience was "concerned about gashmius" hence the question why is a Talmid Chachim a R"Y attending an over-the-top luxurious event? That is exactly the point!
You write:
"Does it mean that the R"Y approves of the party? No, obviously not."
If he didn't approve it he shouldn't have attended and that is the point of the question!
Your comment:
"If it bothers you that R"Y have to lower themselves this way to raise funds for Torah, and the elbon hatorah hurts you, Rav Deutsch gave some hashkafic background at 21:38 as noted above."
I heard that, and if the R"Y really believe that, then they should stop condemning something that they cannot avoid attending!
A famous R"Y in Israel adored by the American Yeshivishe sheep, is on every Kol Korah condemning "Smart Phones" yet he was seen on many occasions browsing on a smartphone! If you condemn it then it is assur for the R"Y as well!
Dear Readers
ReplyDeleteOne of those who wrote in (I deleted) threatened to basically shut my blog down!
Now, I don't make a living from this blog; I write what we are all thinking!
In fact if I had asked that question that was publicly asked at the Q&A I would have been branded an apikores!
Should this guy succeed, I will then open another blog on a different platform! I already set it up, ready to go!
My message is very important, and the fact that they are even thinking to close me down is in itself testimony that I am indeed doing the right thing!
I am not one of those blind sheep and when I see hypocrisy, I will call it out!
My firm deals with First Amendment rights. I have emailed you that I am prepared to represent you pro bono should your host try to close you down.
DeleteWe will also pursue all legal avenues to sue all those involved!
DIN is spot on, and whose logic and ethics, are much appreciated. He cuts thru the disingenuous and infuriating BS.
ReplyDeleteKeep up this good and holy work! And may you be blessed with אריכות ימים ושנים טובות!
Absolutly disgusting to call out our leaders.
ReplyDeleteThe truth is obvious, live within your means and enjoy life dont follow the jones and feed the economy so everyone can have parnasssah. and as for the rabonim going how foolish are you really? Yes there is a respect for succesful people especially when they give numbers you can tcomprehend the the mosdow we all use. you are disgusting for making them out to be money lovers.
4:02
DeleteHey Tzaddik, stop lecturing us, first open a Tanach and you will clearly see that "our leaders" are not infallible!
I am "disgusting for making them out to be money lovers?'
So what are they? If they were in any way שונאי בצע they would have sat it out!
Why don't you re-read your own comment where you excuse this Chillul Hashem and where you clearly admit that they are "money lovers."
I am not the one who called them out on this huge colossal mistake; it was the very first question at the Yarchei Kallah, it seems like the chushivieh kehillah was thinking that as well, and they called them out, all I did was post the question and the "non" answers!
Address your childish frustrations at the Agudah!
True thye are not perfect but to call them out in general and specificly for this is ridicoulous. you have a very negative view on the torah world and have no problem bad mouthing real rabonim. shame on you. there is nothing wrong with talmidai chachomi going to a gvirs wedding. you sound jeolous of the attention
Delete8:20
DeleteYour answer on why the R"Y went is actually perfect!
So I ask you why then didn't the panelists just say so?
Why did they reframe the question?
Why didn't they just say what you just said "there is nothing wrong with talmidai chachomi going to a gvirs wedding"and "that they are not perfect"
I'll tell you why!
Because this very R"Y preached and signed multiple Kol Koras that people should not attend over-the-top events, and then he himself went, that was the question!
The panelists would neve say "they are not perfect" and that is the problem!
There is a concept mentioned in the גמרא of גדולה עבירה לשמה. Early חסידישע literature is replete with reference to these גמרות. Although the true parameters of the concept are not necessarily applicable in line with how the ספרים הקדושים represent them, nonetheless, there are appropriate applications within the realm of Halacha.
ReplyDeleteThe general concept however is that although there are prohibitions of the Torah, at times, even when violating the Torah directive, if done with the correct intention, the violation is also considered גדולה.
As such, it is possible that although living in extreme extravagance is wrong, at times it may be justified and even required, and even when not justified, participation in such an event may be required and justified although still a violation. Thus said, without knowing the specifics, judging the makers of such events or participants participation is not so simple and may not be hypocritical.
Without knowing the specifics in either direction, it would be wise to withhold judgement on any of the parties.
3:05
DeleteI appreciate your respectful response, but I have to disagree.
My post wasn’t about the individual who made the event. It was about the prominent Roshei Yeshiva who chose to participate. You combined the two, but the question raised at the panel was specifically about the Rabbanim who attended, not about the baal simcha.
When the Talmud discusses gedolah aveirah lishmah, it refers to an individual acting privately for a higher purpose. It does not refer to a public appearance in 2026—when everything is instantly recorded and goes viral—by a major Rosh Yeshiva representing a major mosad, participating in an event he himself has condemned.
I’m not even addressing whether the individual’s event was appropriate. The issue—both in my post and in the panel’s discussion—was the scenario where Rabbanim publicly speak out against over‑the‑top events, yet are then seen attending exactly such an event. That is the contradiction people are asking about.
That is the issue.
There would have no reason to have this discussion had the rabbanim who participated addressed it themselves, but they left the dirty work to the panelists who were very uncomfortable with the question and in effect, dodged it!