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Thursday, December 28, 2017

Chavie Weisberger Gets Her Kids Back After Coming Out as Gay!

In 2012, a judge ordered that Chavie Weisberger’s children be removed from her care because the formerly Hasidic mom came out as a lesbian.
Chavie Weisberger will never forget the day in October 2012 when her friend came over and told her that her ex-husband, Naftali Weisberger, was suing the formerly Hasidic mom for sole custody of their three young children. The following month, a judge ordered that the kids be immediately removed from her care.
“I was shocked. He was so absent,” Chavie, now 35, says of her ex. “I [had] tried to get him more engaged in the children’s lives with so much resistance.”
After divorcing her husband in 2009, Chavie had eventually come out as a lesbian, shocking her friends, family and ex-husband, who had since remarried and started a new family.
“To him, you can’t raise Hasidic kids with a queer mother,” Chavie tells The Post. Naftali, who declined to be interviewed for this article, argued that she had violated the religious-upbringing clause in their divorce agreement, which required that she bring up their children in a strict Orthodox environment. According to court papers, he maintained that she had “radically changed her lifestyle” — including coming out to her eldest daughter and living with a transgender man.
The courts agreed with him. In 2015, Brooklyn Judge Eric Prus awarded Naftali sole legal and residential custody of their two daughters and one son — and even forbade her from discussing her sexuality with her youngest children.
“I felt terror,” she says of the 2015 ruling. “The whole world came crashing down on me.”


Life wasn’t always so turbulent for Chavie, who had a typical upbringing — at least for someone raised in the ultra-Orthodox enclave upstate in Monsey, where she grew up. One of 10 siblings, she was forbidden from interacting with boys or anyone less observant than her. “When I was 12, my father gave me a prayer to start saying every day to get a good shidduch [arranged marriage],” she says.
In March of 2002, at age 19, Chavie married Naftali. The nuptials took place just six months after Chavie first met him at her’s sister’s home. (They got together a second time not long after, and then her parents informed her that they were engaged.)
After the wedding, the pair moved to Borough Park, and she soon became pregnant. But with no college education, she says she “felt trapped.” She started seeing a Hasidic therapist within the first year of marriage, to whom she admitted being in love with women.
“He said, ‘You’re a lesbian,’ and I said, ‘What’s that?’ I was attracted to girls always, and I thought it was wrong, but I also didn’t quite understand what it was,” she says.
But Naftali wanted to maintain the status quo, so she stayed in the marriage and gave birth to her first daughter at age 20. “I wanted to be a good mother and make enough money to support our family,” she says. In keeping with certain ultra-Orthodox traditions, Naftali studied the Torah while Chavie was the breadwinner, working as a teacher, running an after-school program and tutoring on the side.
Problems in the marriage continued, and Chavie asked for permission to go on birth control. “I almost felt guilty bringing more children into a marriage that wasn’t sustainable,” she says. But her rabbi, who makes the call on such family matters, initially denied her request.
The pair finally divorced in 2009.
“[I] couldn’t live a lie, married to a person I didn’t love,” says Chavie, who readily agreed to raise their children, ages 2, 3 and 5 at the time, Hasidic, according to the Jewish divorce papers or “get.”
“I was still super religious,” says the young woman, who had no legal representation throughout the process. “I just signed it.”
She continued to shave her head, wear a sheitel [wig] and drape herself in long skirts as she walked the streets of Borough Park. She also dutifully went on dates with men her mother arranged, but they never felt right.
Over the next three years, she slowly found a community outside the austere ultra-Orthodox one from which she was raised never to stray. That community included Jewish LGBT members, whom she introduced to her children. “I thought there was room for me to be a good parent and still be true to myself and my sexuality,” she says.
“We had conversations — [that] different people have different sexualities,” says Chavie. “I didn’t want to hide parts of myself to people who were closest to me: my children. I wanted a legitimate, honest, whole life with my children.”
Her family wasn’t supportive. While they knew she was attracted to women during her marriage, they remained hopeful she would work through it and “cure the flaws,” she says. When it became clear she wasn’t going to do that, she says they started siding with Naftali.
“‘We want the children to be religious, so we’re going to support your ex-husband,’” she recalls them saying. “It was so painful … It was an awful time.”
Then, in November 2012, a judge ordered the kids to be removed from her home. “It was awful and traumatic, and I had to keep a brave face and act like it wasn’t a big deal,” says Chavie, who eventually got lawyers pro bono through the nonprofit organization Unchained at Last, which helps women escape arranged and forced marriages.
After three years of legal battles, she received the judge’s decision via e-mail from her lawyer. She was allowed limited, supervised visitation and she had to stick to the script: no acknowledgment of her homosexuality to the youngest kids.
The new arrangement took a toll on the children, at this point pre-teens, and every moment felt like a test. “It was a delicate dance — we could only discuss certain topics,” she says. “It was hellish. I was living on tiptoes, in constant fear.”
Shortly after the 2015 court decision, Chavie was hired as a community engagement coordinator at Footsteps, the organization that helps the ultra-Orthodox adapt to the broader world.
She fought the decision, and this summer, an appeals court reversed the ruling, granting the doting mom full custody of her kids, now ages 10, 12 and 14 — provided she keeps a kosher home and continues to keep the children in Hasidic schools. Naftali is granted weekend and holiday visitation.
“A religious-upbringing clause should not, and cannot, be enforced to the extent that it violates a parent’s legitimate due-process right to express oneself freely,” wrote the panel of three judges.
The best part? “Now when the children are with me, I don’t have to pretend to be someone I’m not,” she says. “That’s the biggest thing. I can share my full self and raise my children as who I am.”
These days, she’s settled on a secular lifestyle, but she insists she has no intention of exposing her kids to anything that flies in the face of the court ruling. “I’m Jewish, and I love the culture and history and food and I feel very connected to the tradition — I just don’t believe in God,” she says.
Rather, she says she’s raising them to be open-minded.
“My kids have so much more information [than I had at that age] — they are empowered,” she says. “I just want them to go to college and not get married at 18.”

40 comments:

Abe said...

I’m surprised that a chasidic school would admit children whose mother has custody but denies God’s existence. How do the children and school reconcile these fundamental incongruities? However, I’m glad these children will get a good secular education, college degree and avoid marriage at age 18.
As for Chavie, I can’t understand why God would create same sex attraction and at the same time disparage and prohibit it.

Chafraud-Depravitch said...

Abe,

"I can’t understand why God would create same sex attraction and at the same time disparage and prohibit it."

Think of it like dinosaur bones; either God is a practical joker, or it's a cruel "test" of some kind.

---

I did ask a Chabad rabbi (young Earth creationist) about the dinosaur bones. He said they were placed there to throw us off, a kind of test. To which I replied that I didn't believe in a God that misleads Its creation or plays practical jokes.

Anonymous said...

And do you understand why G-d created nut cases like you?

AishKodesh said...

To Abe and Reb C_D, Hashem does make tests for us. What about all the tests in our lives? But they are ALL for our benefit.

As for dinosaur bones, there is a very scientific (but not against anything religious) explanation: When things were first created, people were bigger, animals were bigger, etc. And remember, before the Nachash tempted Chava to eat from the עץ הדעת טוב ורע, he had legs -- my guess is, other snakes probably did too.

As for the age of the bones, when the מבול came, it probably made the bones look and seem older than they are... Anyway, that's how I've heard things.

Gut Shabbos all.

Anonymous said...

@1:36

....says the cult member, completely oblivious to the irony of his ignorance.

Why did God create half-wits who think their rebbe is Hashem?

Abe said...

Chafraud 6:06 PM,

Whenever I hear Rabbeim try to reconcile the age of the earth with millions of years scientifically calculated age of dinosaur fossils, I immediately discount almost anything they advocate from a halachic standpoint. They’re fools.

Steve Brown said...

Looking at this from an independant angle... I CALL FRAUD.
If you truly think about these people(footsteps/otd movement) are merely replacing one religion with another that offers 0 in return they are not "freeing" themselves theyre just digging themselves in much deeper.
The people that run these organizations either have 1)mental illness 2)satanists with cultlike personalities 3ADDICTED TO NEGATIVITY
If people truly want to leave... Take the first train down south or west and go bartend in a state where nobody knows you and live out life in peace(hopefully before you get married and have kids).
2.The whole Transgender thing never rang the bell(pun) in my innocent mind... Ill leave it for some other degenerate to make shmeckel and finishing the bris jokes.
3. I"d like to leave yall on a lighter note...
(This is fully my idea but here goes)
If a wife comes home and tells her husband that she thinks shes into girls the 1st reaction any (sane) man is like fine ok its ok honey(in his heart hes like if i play my cards right THREESOME)
On the other hand dude comes home... Within 5 minutes shes hysterical on phone With mommy rebetzin u name it they heard tears.
The lesson is think outside the box.
P.s. if youre reading this and you owe someone money be a man and pay them back.
Sincerely your in house MFER.

Anonymous said...

Maybe it's our actions that create our children to have these attractions stop blaming good for human action

Anonymous said...

Very happy to see this story. Chavie, I can't give you enough praise for showing this community, the ignorant, mysogonistic chassidic men, and their helpless, clueless women-chattel what a powerful woman can do when she follows her heart and mind!

As a former Chossid myself, I hope this encourages anyone from the many frum communities out there to take a "leap of faith" and follow their hearts far, far away from these cults. Because deep down, when you look around at your fellow men dressed like 1830's Russian peasants, and mumble one more time about "moshiach" coming one day and magically turning the world into Israel - you know it's all bulls&*%t.

We only have one life to live, and it's real shame to waste it in service of some pig rabbi who'd force you to have kids in a S&%*ty marriage so he can molest' them when they're ripe n' ready.

And to the sympathizers out there, you know the "well if it makes them happy crowd," keep in mind your enabling this community, and your silence and sympathy is complicit in the enslavement of future generations to this harmful cult.

Happy new years everyone!

Abe said...

AishKodesh 11:08 AM,

How do you know that it’s Hashem who is deliberately testing you, if in fact it’s a test at all? If you smash into and kill a deer driving at 55 mph, paralyzing the driver, is that for his benefit, not to mention the deer’s? Only someone with a twisted perception of Hashem would promote such a twisted hypothesis.
As for your insistence that there is a scientific explanation for the great size of dinosaur and human bones, where are those giant human bones? What exactly is that scientific explaination? Please cite.
If you believe in talking snakes, where are they today? Since you’re so into scientific explanations, give me a scientific explanation for their disappearance.
Snakes with legs? Well you’re onto something. Evolution transfigured and shed the legs in response to a changing environment. Many snakes have small vestigial protrusions where their legs once had been. You can see the evolutionary effect on other animals also. Fish have been discovered in water in caves deep inside the earth. No light reaches the water, the fish live their entire lives in total darkness. Their eyes have become vestigial and sightless , unable to perceive light because they are useless in the dark. Their eyes have transformed into useless impersonations of normal functioning eyes. You need not examine cave fish to see this evolutionary effect. When you shower and wash your vestigial nipples, ask why Hashem would create men with useless nipples. Is that also a test?

“Anyway, that’s how I’ve heard things.”
You’re listening to the wrong people.

Steve Brown said...

WE HAVE A MAJOR/HUGE PROBLEM HERE:
PEOPLE ARE WAAAY TO INVESTED IN THIS SHIT.

AishKodesh said...

@Abe, Let me answer you one step at a time:

1) When you make a mistake, it was your fault. Maybe Hashem will make it end up for the best for others, but it's on you. Although Hashem controls the world, we still have Bechirah Chofshis. Don't get me wrong. So when something happens to us, we accept that Hashem will make that end up for our benefit.

2) The Nachash is cited by the Torah. It spoke. And as a punishment Hashem made it that it would crawl on it's belly. That I guess ended up for all snakes some time. My dear man, you don't believe the Words of Hashem Himself?

Their dissapearence? The Mabul. The Torah has the answers...

3) I don't know how everything got somewhere. Hashem has some hand in it, we know, though. There are things that, although hard to accept, we just can't and don't understand. I don't care if some scientist tried to find an answer which sounded plausible because he HAD to have one.

As for our "nipples", we were created that way... Who has the baby? The man? So he needs "working nippl..."? (Just feel wierd saying that word.) Please. Hashem made things perfectly. There was no need for things to 'evolutionize' and thus they didn't.

Hope that answers some of your questions, my friend.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Aish you're one big nipple
Why don't you go play with yourself
It might relieve some of your tension

Abe said...

AishKodesh 3;25PM,

@Abe, Let me answer you one step at a time:

“1) When you make a mistake, it was your fault. Maybe Hashem will make it end up for the best for others, but it's on you. Although Hashem controls the world, we still have Bechirah Chofshis. Don't get me wrong. So when something happens to us, we accept that Hashem will make that end up for our benefit.”

What are you janbering about? You always seem to reply to issues that I didn’t raise. How was an accidental collision with a deer at 55 mph causing the paralysis of the driver and death of the deer, the fault of the driver? Why is it “on you”?

“2) The Nachash is cited by the Torah. It spoke. And as a punishment Hashem made it that it would crawl on it's belly. That I guess ended up for all snakes some time. My dear man, you don't believe the Words of Hashem Himself?

No I don’t believe that Hashem punished the snake

Their dissapearence? The Mabul. The Torah has the answers...”

Sure I believe the words of Hashem, but he concocted this hallucinatory tale for credulous
dogmatists like yourself. You remind me of the Tam in the Mah Nishtana. For the Rambam, Ralbag, Seforno and many other Gedolim, the entire story is an allegory, a metaphor for the Yetzer Hora. The talking snake never happened. See here:

http://www.rationalistjudaism.com/2015/07/about-that-four-legged-snake.html?m=1

“3) I don't know how everything got somewhere. Hashem has some hand in it, we know, though. There are things that, although hard to accept, we just can't and don't understand. I don't care if some scientist tried to find an answer which sounded plausible because he HAD to have one.”

If you don’t understand It why would you lend credence to it? Saying Hashem did it is a cop-out. Using that broken logic, you can easily say that it was Hashem’s deliberate intent to kill those unfortunates who perished in the housefire in Brooklyn NY during Chanukah a few weeks ago. You’ll say it but won’t understand it because logic and reason are a menace to your hashkafa.

“As for our "nipples", we were created that way... Who has the baby? The man? So he needs "working nippl..."? (Just feel wierd saying that word.) Please. Hashem made things perfectly. There was no need for things to 'evolutionize' and thus they didn't. “

Really? Hashem purposefully created you with with a useless bodily structure?
When you retire to bed do you deeply puzzle over your useless nipples and why Hashem did that to you? Yes, I know, it’s all for the best and couldn’t be better.

“Hope that answers some of your questions, my friend.”

In fact it did. You’re a credulous, gullible fellow.

Hareidi Watch said...

Haredi Jews have created a nonsensical, non-existent conflict between authentic Torah and science.

Ask any rabbi who claims that the dinosaur bones are a "test" - Where is there an authentic, traditional Torah source that claims that Hashem created deceptive dinosaur bones as a "test"?

I don't believe there is any such source for that nonsense.

Instead we just have to consult the Rambam's Moreh Nevuchim that teaches that the Universe was created in the finite past, but we can't say when it was created. So a Universe billions of years old does not conflict with Torah.

AishKodesh said...

@7:46, On the contrary, Baruch Hashem, I am very calm and am not very tense at all. How about you?

Anonymous said...

So stop playing with you self pervert

Gornisht said...

Teep-Aish Kodesh (haha! - holy stupid), as much as you're annoying, I gotta be honest, why do you even respond to Abe and the others ppl? Their stupid comments shouldn't even be let thru by DIN. Not worth ur time, Mr. holier-than-thou.

Anonymous said...

"Saying Hashem did it is a cop-out. "
No it's not, dumb-tuches. It's called Emunah.

FRUM BUT NORMAL said...

AishKodesh;

Are you aware that the SIFORNO,(a 13th century Rishon,one of the first commentators on TORAH) says,that the snake mentioned in the story of BEREISHIS
is a metaphor for the YETZER HORAH,there was no talking snake,and the RAMBAM in his guide for the perplex t,says the same thing about BILAM'S talking donkey,claiming that it was only a dream,
Hope they won't start burning RAMBAM'S and SIFORNO'S in Lakewood and Monsey :)



Anonymous said...

you guys asking questions and adding links to support yourselves, why you trying to convince? why you so angry and desperate / why does it bother you what we believe/ ok lts say were stupid, why you care? We don't give a crap about your bs theories, why you care about us and our faith? Just leave us alone.

AishKodesh said...

I hope they won't either, FBN. :) However, I do not at all disagree that it was a metaphor for the Yetzer Hara. But when that is said, it means that the STORY was a metaphor for it -- i.e. in the Torah, what is listed, happened. But it alludes to different things and perhaps was listed for that purpose, etc. (About Bilaam's donkey, most disagree, I think, with the Rambam zt"l).

@1:35 PM, Please don't talk in such a strong -- no, weak -- manner.

Abe said...

Anonymous 1:35 PM ,

Your emunah is blind emunah, no different than the Popes’s . Why is your emunah better than his? It’s not, but at least he doesn’t believe in talking snakes.

Abe said...

FRUM BUT NORMAL 4:29 AM,

AishKodesh is probably also unaware of another Rishon, RALBAG’s ( Rav Levi Ben Gershom) celebrated sefer Milchamot Elohim which states that Hashem has limited supernatural power to create and determine our future. He doesn’t know any of this stuff, poor guy.

Anonymous said...

Seforno does NOT deny the plain meaning of the verses, check again. He only says that the snake was a methaphor for the y"h, which nobody disputes anyway. Your Ralbag is out of context, Rambam never mentions a finite past. Even if so, I like how some try to find just a few opinions which you don't even understand, against the plurality, to talk people out of faith. These rabbis all had faith , do you?
seems that you guys have doubts about your own beliefs and want to drag everybody into your crap

Chafraud-Depravitch said...

Abe December 29, 2017 at 11:54 AM,
"Whenever I hear Rabbeim try to reconcile the age of the earth with millions of years scientifically calculated age of dinosaur fossils, I immediately discount almost anything they advocate from a halachic standpoint. They’re fools."

Aish (the kiruv org) once had an article that was very good at it. However, it was written by scientist Gerald Schroeder, not a rabbi.
Basically he argued that the six days and billions of years were one in the same. The "day" observed from the point of creation would be observed from matter outside of that central point as billions of years. At least it recognizes that the days of creation were not 24 hour Earth days (which didn't even exist for a part of the Torahs 6 day narrative).

The Chabad shliach (young Earth fundamentalist - and very much an alcoholic) simply responded that "the Torah was written for men to understand, so a day has to mean a 24 hour day as we know it."

This is a sure sign of a primitive non-thinker. And a hypocrite. They certainly don't take every word of Torah to it's literal conclusion.

לא ספקות said...

אש @10:42 נשמע נכון

Amil said...

This is truly a happy ending to a very sad story. May she live long and prosper and raise her children to be thinking questioning humans, tolerant of the differences of others, be they Jews, or nonJews.

As to the young earthers, I was reading on Imamother one time about the huge number of frum who believe that the sun revolves around the earth. I'm not ashamed to say I got a good laugh out of it.

Chafraud-Depravitch said...

Amil,

"frum who believe that the sun revolves around the earth."

That was a position held by the Lubavitcher Rebbe. And by default, the non-thinkers of Chabad believe whatever he did (like good sheeple).


http://www.chabad.org/therebbe/letters/default_cdo/aid/2046992/jewish/Does-the-Sun-Really-Revolve-Around-the-Earth-II.htm

However, it's not something that Chabad advertises to their customers. They prefer to remain quiet and collect donations from their educated doctor and lawyer fundraising targets.


In another letter, their Rebbe refers to: "the so-called Solar System"

AishKodesh said...

My dear Reb C_D, You really are biased and thus make things out in a worse light. Please.

Anonymous said...

there are prominent scientists who believe that the sun revolves around the earth, check google and videos. Your hangup with chabad is now beyond pathetic

Anonymous said...

Do any of you know who actually wrote The five books of Moses.
Don't tell me God? if so how can there be do many opinions of what the text means. How can you question God

Anonymous said...

וישכב ראובן את בלהא
God said Ruevein screwed Bilha
Ah did he mean Ruevein brushed her teeth?
Or did he mean something else ah ah
Are you questioning God

Anonymous said...

"According to court papers, he maintained that she had “radically changed her lifestyle” — including coming out to her eldest daughter and living with a transgender man."
So what does she gain? She still wants a man? unfortunately a sick man. See the mishanah says if someone swears to change what is known to men, like a man is a woman or a woman is a man, it is a Shvuas shove. If there was a possibility to change it would not be so.
I derive from the mishanah, & I believe pure science not PC science agrees, that although some changes & mutilations are possible the real change isn't, and you won't find a couple who trannied where he is she & she is he having children the new way.
That said I don't see any gain in her new choice.
BTW if that is a picture of her what a shame she looks really pretty, maybe she reconsider G-d & leave Footsteps, before following is some off the founders of footsteps, footsteps off high buildings in NYC & the likes. I for one & many others need a Shidduch who could still have children. Rethink it Chavi there is still hope for you, you may still get a husband almost old enough to be your father, & replace both with one.

Amil said...

Well Anon, you don't need to see ANY gain in her life. What's important is that she is living her life and scored a big win for religious women (both fundy Jews and Xtians) who are in the same position. .

Amil said...

Chafraud-Depravitch-- I almost fell victim to Chabads false advertising. It was a momentary lapse, thankfully. it was only momentary.

AishKodesh said...

@Amil, I feel like you have been way too negative. Please brighten up a bit :)

Abe said...

Anonymous 6:44 PM,

I couldn’t find any any notable peer respected scientists who assert that the sun revolves around the earth. When you find a few , let us know. In the meantime stop defending a cult who believes their Rebbe is Moshiach and is alive in one form or another.

Abe said...

Anonymous 11:02 PM,

If for some reason she did rethink her sexual orientation, one thing is certain. An intelligent woman like Chavie would never choose klutzkop like you. If you’re representetive of chareidi men, better she should stay a lesbian than cohabit with likes of a crackpot like you.

Anonymous said...

Ill defend whoever I want, even your right to believe that you're some monkey's uncle so long as you don't force bananas down people's throats.